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post #2266 of 7438 (permalink) Old 01-17-2015, 11:18 PM
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Re: America has a problem with gun insanity

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It is far more productive for me to care about who are committing violent acts than to chase ghosts. I have no power to keep a criminal from getting a gun. By the way, you don't, either. If I could magically prevent all violent felons from obtaining firearms, they are still violent, lethal, people who will find or make weapons. You might be able to make children sleep better at night with fairy tales about gun control but the reality is that dangerous, violent people are dangerous 365 days out of the year, regardless of what happens to be in their hands. Evil and violence exist between the ears. The only ways to be safer around them is to lock them away from society, kill them, or at least be always prepared to.
20% of police officers murdered with firearms are murdered by unarmed people who attacked them, disarmed them, and killed them with their own weapon. The recent Paris shootings weren't committed with legally purchased and registered AK47s.
If I am shot by an unregistered gun, it's because some murderous psycho or predator wants me dead. If he didn't have a gun, he would be bashing my head with a bat or carving me up with a Bowie knife or running me over with an F150, firebombing my home, etc. When you're dead, the mechanism of your death won't be keeping you awake at night. The government cannot possibly keep guns out of the hands of criminals. They never have been able to, never will be able to and I'm not convinced they seriously wish to. If I get murdered tonight on the job, odds are very high it will be by someone who had been in government custody before for violent offenses and has been repeatedly released by the government. Out here, everybody gets treated like they are armed until they are searched. Even after a search, they still get treated like they have the potential to kill, because we all have that potential. No law or series of laws you might imagine can change that. Gun laws inconvenience or disarm only the law-abiding.
Of course I don't have the power to keep anyone from getting a gun, but having a tighter gateway can reduce the access spigot to criminals. If it makes no difference to you, it does to me. So I stand by my proposals.

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post #2267 of 7438 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 12:07 AM
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Re: America has a problem with gun insanity

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Of course I don't have the power to keep anyone from getting a gun, but having a tighter gateway can reduce the access spigot to criminals. If it makes no difference to you, it does to me. So I stand by my proposals.
No, it can't. Laws against alcohol didn't stop anyone from drinking and laws against drugs haven't inconvenienced illegal drug users. Laws against illegal immigration haven't stopped illegal immigration.
Several nations with far stricter gun control laws than the United States have far more gun murders. Your premise about reducing "access" is just bunk. If every gun manufacturer and ever retailer was put out of business in the United States, arms would be smuggled in, stolen from government sources, or covertly manufactured. The vast majority of gun criminals are already prohibited from possessing or trying to possess firearms. Some genius thought those laws would keep arms out of their hands. Doesn't even slow them down. You can stand by your proposal but it's wrong as two left shoes.
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post #2268 of 7438 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 12:16 AM
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Re: America has a problem with gun insanity

Mexico and Columbia have stricter gun laws but their gun murder rate is much higher. Mexico has 2.8 legally owned guns and they figure about 15.5 million civilian owned firearms. How did they get them? "Access" is very strictly controlled.
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post #2269 of 7438 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 12:17 AM
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post #2270 of 7438 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 12:24 AM
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America has a problem with gun insanity

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No, it can't. Laws against alcohol didn't stop anyone from drinking and laws against drugs haven't inconvenienced illegal drug users. Laws against illegal immigration haven't stopped illegal immigration.

Several nations with far stricter gun control laws than the United States have far more gun murders. Your premise about reducing "access" is just bunk. If every gun manufacturer and ever retailer was put out of business in the United States, arms would be smuggled in, stolen from government sources, or covertly manufactured. The vast majority of gun criminals are already prohibited from possessing or trying to possess firearms. Some genius thought those laws would keep arms out of their hands. Doesn't even slow them down. You can stand by your proposal but it's wrong as two left shoes.

In my opinion drug laws have a strong correlation to illegal guns and probably in our best interest to decriminalize drugs along with front end controls.
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post #2271 of 7438 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 12:26 AM
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America has a problem with gun insanity

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Mexico and Columbia have stricter gun laws but their gun murder rate is much higher. Mexico has 2.8 legally owned guns and they figure about 15.5 million civilian owned firearms. How did they get them? "Access" is very strictly controlled.



I think if you look close enough it is easy to see where the flow of guns to these countries come from.
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post #2272 of 7438 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 12:49 AM
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Re: America has a problem with gun insanity

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I think if you look close enough it is easy to see where the flow of guns to these countries come from.
You really don't "get" it. I'll try to keep it simple. The market demand creates the supply. "Where" a product is made is irrelevant. The fact that it is a greatly desired product is very relevant. Cut off access at one point, another will open or increase productivity to cover the demand. Brazil is one of the largest weapons producers in the world. If drug cartels want weapons, they will get them. If you have the money and the motivation you can acquire absolutely anything you want, regardless of where you are or what the laws are where you are.
There is only one legitimate gun store in the entire country of Mexico and it is owned and operated by the Mexican government. What better "access" control could any country have? For every legal gun they have 7 illegal ones and a gun homicide rate that exceeds the worst city in the United States.
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post #2273 of 7438 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 12:49 AM
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post #2274 of 7438 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 01:16 AM
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America has a problem with gun insanity

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Originally Posted by unbelievable View Post
You really don't "get" it. I'll try to keep it simple. The market demand creates the supply. "Where" a product is made is irrelevant. The fact that it is a greatly desired product is very relevant. Cut off access at one point, another will open or increase productivity to cover the demand. Brazil is one of the largest weapons producers in the world. If drug cartels want weapons, they will get them. If you have the money and the motivation you can acquire absolutely anything you want, regardless of where you are or what the laws are where you are.

There is only one legitimate gun store in the entire country of Mexico and it is owned and operated by the Mexican government. What better "access" control could any country have? For every legal gun they have 7 illegal ones and a gun homicide rate that exceeds the worst city in the United States.

But if America decriminalized drugs and put tighter controls on purchase it is double whammy: less money for the drug cartels to buy guns and one less avenue to get guns, from us. I do get it.
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post #2275 of 7438 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 01:17 AM
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America has a problem with gun insanity


One persons opinion I disagree with in part.

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post #2276 of 7438 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 01:18 AM
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post #2277 of 7438 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 01:24 AM
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Re: America has a problem with gun insanity

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But if America decriminalized drugs and put tighter controls on purchase it is double whammy: less money for the drug cartels to buy guns and one less avenue to get guns, from us. I do get it.
And ISIS gets their guns from the sale of illegal drugs? The Mafia of the 1930s got their guns from the sale of illegal drugs? Not only do you imagine you have some magical power to restrict people from getting guns you think you can keep them from buying drugs on the black market? The most criminally abused drugs in my state are prescription drugs, which are heavily regulated by the U.S. federal government. Cigarettes are taxed and regulated. Can kids get them? Are they sold on the black market in the U.S.? Your federal government smuggled weapons across the border into Mexico and handed them to criminal gangs. Those are the people you want to give a monopoly to use force and the people you want to trust your life with? They couldn't protect their own ambassador to Lybia.
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post #2278 of 7438 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 01:25 AM
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America has a problem with gun insanity


The major problem with loose comparisons, gun control falls all the way across that spectrum and not just at one end. I don't see the correlative between these two factors.
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post #2279 of 7438 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 01:31 AM
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America has a problem with gun insanity

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Originally Posted by unbelievable View Post
And ISIS gets their guns from the sale of illegal drugs? The Mafia of the 1930s got their guns from the sale of illegal drugs? Not only do you imagine you have some magical power to restrict people from getting guns you think you can keep them from buying drugs on the black market? The most criminally abused drugs in my state are prescription drugs, which are heavily regulated by the U.S. federal government. Cigarettes are taxed and regulated. Can kids get them? Are they sold on the black market in the U.S.? Your federal government smuggled weapons across the border into Mexico and handed them to criminal gangs. Those are the people you want to give a monopoly to use force and the people you want to trust your life with? They couldn't protect their own ambassador to Lybia.

The mafia prior to prohibition got their money from bootlegging and prostitution. After repeal of prohibition, prostitution and heroine.

Decriminalizing drugs includes providing mechanisms for those that are abusing prescription drugs a cheaper access with available services to help them not incarcerate them.

E-cigs have almost all but replaced cigarettes and they are not currently taxed.
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post #2280 of 7438 (permalink) Old 01-18-2015, 01:33 AM
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Re: America has a problem with gun insanity

Following your logic, organized crime in America should have disappeared after the Volstead Act was repealed. Ending Prohibition should have taken money from the mob and given it to the government. There have been violent criminals as long as there have been people. Cain didn't kill his brother, Abel, over a crack rock. The most violent continent on earth is Africa and they aren't murdering each other over cocaine or meth. All those folks in Iraq slaughtering each other aren't doing so over drug deals gone bad.
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