America has a problem with gun insanity - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 7438 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 07:10 AM Thread Starter
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America has a problem with gun insanity

Our gun control thread vanished but as long as people kill themselves and their families, better controls are necessary

Gunman, 3 others killed in Arkansas shootings
AP 11:55 p.m. EDT May 3, 2014

JONESBORO, Arkansas (AP) — A gunman shot six people at an Arkansas home Saturday, killing a man and a teenager and critically wounding two boys, before fatally shooting a worker at a nearby business, police said.

The suspected gunman was later found dead of a gunshot wound in the driver's seat of a stopped car, Jonesboro Sgt. Doug Formon said at an evening news conference. It was not immediately clear if the gunshot was self-inflicted.

Formon said a man and a 13-year-old girl were killed Saturday afternoon inside the home in east Jonesboro, Arkansas, where it appeared a family was having a party or gathering.

Four other people were injured and were taken to hospitals in Memphis, Tennessee. Formon said the children, ages 8 and 10, were transported in critical condition.

Police received a 911 call about the shooting at the home around 1:00 p.m. Police responded at 1:22 p.m. to a report of a second shooting at a business near a U.S. highway. Forman said the worker was found shot to death at the site, where construction and lawn work had been ongoing.

Forman said police did not know of a motive as of Saturday evening and that the investigation is ongoing.


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post #2 of 7438 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 07:14 AM
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Re: America has a problem with gun insanity

Yes, I agree. I come from a country with strict gun control Laws and hardly any gun deaths. In fact our homicide rate us much much lower then the US.

I know we look at the gun issue in the US and
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post #3 of 7438 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 07:25 AM
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Re: America has a problem with gun insanity

What controls do you suggest?

And when exactly did the threat of gun control vanish?

Last edited by Fabiovelli; 05-04-2014 at 09:14 AM.
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post #4 of 7438 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 07:40 AM
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Re: America has a problem with gun insanity

Shouldn't we have enough respect for the people of Arkansas to let them make their own decision about this? Otherwise, they have not only a shooting tragedy but a federal law they never wanted.
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post #5 of 7438 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 01:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: America has a problem with gun insanity

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Originally Posted by Fabiovelli View Post
What controls do you suggest?

And when exactly did the threat of gun control vanish?
Sorry, typo. Meant to write thread, not threat.

We exchanged many ideas but the thread OP deleted it.
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post #6 of 7438 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 01:55 PM
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Re: America has a problem with gun insanity

Gun insanity aside. Gun ownership is not one of the rights I am willing to give up. Period.

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post #7 of 7438 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: America has a problem with gun insanity

Here is a very typical news item

Quote:
State trooper 'accidentally shot dead his pregnant wife while their two young children were at home'

JoAnne Miller, who was 22 weeks pregnant, was taken to Mercy Suburban Hospital in Pennsylvania with a gunshot wound to the head on Friday

Doctors performed an emergency cesarean to try to save her unborn child but the baby died
Police believe that the .45-caliber handgun accidentally discharged while being handled by her husband, a state trooper of 9 years
By DAILY MAIL REPORTER
PUBLISHED: 13:12 GMT, 10 March 2014 | UPDATED: 17:53 GMT, 10 March 2014
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A pregnant mother-of-two has been shot dead by her state trooper husband at the couple's home while their two young children were inside.
JoAnne Miller, who was 22 weeks pregnant, was taken to Mercy Suburban Hospital in Pennsylvania with a gunshot wound to the head on Friday afternoon.
Mrs Miller, 34, died shortly after being brought to hospital. Doctors performed an emergency cesarean to try to save her unborn child but the baby died.
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+3
Pregnant mother JoAnne Miller, 34, was shot dead at her Pennsylvania home on Friday allegedly by her state trooper husband
Police believe that the .45-caliber handgun accidentally discharged while being handled by her husband, Joseph Miller, a state trooper of nine years. Investigators said it was not a service weapon.
It is believed that officer was cleaning the gun at the time and pulled the trigger not realizing the weapon was loaded.
Kevin Steele, Montgomery County first assistant district attorney, told philly.com: 'He's been distraught, cooperative.'

More...
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Mr Miller dialed 911, police said and was helping with their investigation. No charges have been filed.
An autopsy was performed on Mrs Miller and her unborn child on Saturday. The results are expected to be released today.
Both of the Millers young children were at the East Norriton Township home at the time.
The investigation into the tragic deaths continue.
The pregnant mom worked as a civilian dispatcher for the Pennsylvania State Police but was made unemployed last year.

Read more: Pennsylvania state trooper accidentally shot dead his pregnant wife | Mail Online
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post #8 of 7438 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 02:16 PM
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Re: America has a problem with gun insanity

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Originally Posted by Entropy3000 View Post
Gun insanity aside. Gun ownership is not one of the rights I am willing to give up. Period.
Ditto.
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post #9 of 7438 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 02:19 PM
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Re: America has a problem with gun insanity

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Gun insanity aside. Gun ownership is not one of the rights I am willing to give up. Period.
Can I ask why?

I'm not a US citizen either, and I find it a little weird how easy access to guns seems to be there. I think that other countries seem to have better controls while still retaining some access to firearms for legitimate purposes.

I genuinely don't understand the US outlook on this and I would like to.
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post #10 of 7438 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 02:34 PM
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Re: America has a problem with gun insanity

What kind of legislation would address a state trooper who shoots his wife at home?

At the moment, the slightest suggestion of gun control seems to drive up gun sales. We're not going to ban handguns, certainly not at home and not for the police.

It's not just America. To the north, RCMP are armed while on duty. Canadians are allowed to have handguns at home, although with much more red tape. Places where police don't carry guns are a rarity in the world.

The article doesn't say if the wife was in the same room or the bullet went through a wall first. A wall wouldn't stop a .45, but I could imagine that the man had no idea his wife was on the other side. I could call that manslaughter. If his wife was in the same room, I don't see how that could be anything but murder.

Are they going to do DNA tests and see if he was the father?

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post #11 of 7438 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 02:54 PM
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Re: America has a problem with gun insanity

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Can I ask why?

I'm not a US citizen either, and I find it a little weird how easy access to guns seems to be there. I think that other countries seem to have better controls while still retaining some access to firearms for legitimate purposes.

I genuinely don't understand the US outlook on this and I would like to.
Wazza, to put what guns are to many Americans into perpective, imagine telling the French they won't be able to drink wine anymore, or the Germans they can't get a beer.

I think many Americans will give up sex before they will give up guns!

I do not get it either but I love this country nonetheless.
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post #12 of 7438 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 03:27 PM
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Re: America has a problem with gun insanity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wazza View Post
Can I ask why?

I'm not a US citizen either, and I find it a little weird how easy access to guns seems to be there. I think that other countries seem to have better controls while still retaining some access to firearms for legitimate purposes.

I genuinely don't understand the US outlook on this and I would like to.
This is not negotiable. It is a fundamental right. No disrespect but others do not need to understand why I refuse to give up my rights. If I wanted to live in another country I would. Criminals will always have access to weapons.

Sorry, but we have a more independent spirit. We are not all about relying on the governement. You would also have to undersand Hamiltionian vs. Jeffersonian politics. Balance of powers. The need for States rights vs. Federal powers. We do not want to be Europe.

I have a right to protect my family. My family comes before the government. Where I live people know that if you break into a home at night with a family at home you run a serious risk of being carried out. 911 is not going to protect your family.

Understand I do not have to convince anyone other than this is a right I refuse to give up. Come and take it. I am by no means a radical.

It is not like Europe does not constantly have war and conflict itself. Put a hundred years together without one country attacking another. Look at the Arab spring. The raping of women and so on. Some of us refuse to depend soley on the government.

I personally have defended my home with a weapon. I will not give up that right. Moreover any government hell bent on stripping my rights ... needs to go.

Americas fascination with weapons has been very handy during two world wars. YMMV. All I am saying is debate all you want. But this one Americans answer is no.

My wife went to open up at the school where she teaches. The doors were open. She called the police. Both of the policemen who she spoke with asked if she was carrying a weapon. She said no. They both told her she should probably be carrying one if she is going to be opening in the morning.
Anyway, a group of police men wnet in and made sure the building was safe.

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Last edited by Entropy3000; 05-04-2014 at 03:43 PM.
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post #13 of 7438 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 03:39 PM
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Re: America has a problem with gun insanity

Wine and Beer aside. Gund are more than this.

Giving up guns to me is more like accepting :

Are there any Jews here? All jews stand on the left and everyone else to the right. Hell no.

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post #14 of 7438 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 03:41 PM
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Re: America has a problem with gun insanity

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Originally Posted by Entropy3000 View Post
This is not negotiable. It is a fundamental right. No disrespect but others do not need to understand why I refuse to give up my rights. If I wanted to live in another country I would. Criminals will always have access to weapons.

Sorry, but we have a more independent spirit. We are not all about relying on the governement. You would also have to undersand Hamiltionian vs. Jeffersonian politics. Balance of powers. The need for States rights vs. Federal powers. We do not want to be Europe.

I have a right to protect my family. My family comes before the government. Where I live people know that if you break into a home at night with a family at home you run a serious risk of being carried out. 911 is not going to protect your family.

Understand I do not have to convince anyone other than this is a right I refuse to give up. Come and take it. I am by no means a radical.

It is not like Europe does not constantly have war and conflict itself. Put a hudred years together without one country attacking another. Look at the Arab sring. The raping of women and so on. Some pf us refuse to depend soley on the government.

I personally have defend my home with a weapon. I will not give up that right. Moreover any government hell bent on stripping my rights ... needs to go.

Americas fascination with weapons has been very handy during two world wars. YMMV. Al I am saying is debate all you want. But this one Americans answer is no.
Entropy, I know this has been debated many times on this board but I will say it again. From what I read and understand, no one is talking about cancelling the second amendment, just to have some effective background checks and limit the sale of war type weapons. That's it!

And, I know already your answer. I just wanted to say it, that's all.
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post #15 of 7438 (permalink) Old 05-04-2014, 04:46 PM
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Re: America has a problem with gun insanity

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Originally Posted by Wazza View Post
Can I ask why?

I'm not a US citizen either, and I find it a little weird how easy access to guns seems to be there. I think that other countries seem to have better controls while still retaining some access to firearms for legitimate purposes.

I genuinely don't understand the US outlook on this and I would like to.
For over 400 years, our ancestors lived with near constant danger and there were basically no cops or soldiers near enough to assist them. They fought the French, The Brits, the Spanish, the Mexicans, the Indians, the occasional slave revolt, and defended themselves from the usual collection of psychos, murderers, rapists, burglars, and thieves. Their firearms defended them against bears and mountain lions and those firearms fed their families.

My own father recalls when there was only one peace officer for his entire county (and he lived in a state that was one of the original 13 colonies).

Our friends throughout most of Europe can't recall NEEDING firearms for survival. They could trot over to the baker for a loaf of bread, trot over to the butcher for some meat. Their neighbors (and the law) were much closer. In America, your neighbor might be miles away and even today, the police might be an hour away. We relied on firearms out of necessity and they became part of our culture.

Americans are the descendants of people who didn't play well with others. They were kicked out of most decent countries and came here usually because they had no other options or because they wanted to be left alone. We aren't naturally inclined to call the police or take our problems to court. For generations there really was no law and no court for much of the country. Look at the way we grew. First, people moved into wilderness areas and civilized those areas. After considerable time, something resembling government moved in behind them. That was the case in most of our states. I will give exception to Hawaii and Florida because some form of law was already in place in both areas when Americans acquired those lands.
England sent settlers over here specifically with the expectation that they be citizen soldiers, ready to till the land or fill it with dead bodies as circumstances might direct. In America, if you weren't armed, you were dead. You either starved to death or you were at the mercy of any two or four legged predator. Our forebears were poor, but every home had a Bible and at least one firearm and both received considerable use.
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