Re: Parrothead, why the delete button to the "SA challenge"?
Wahhhhhhhhh.....for some reason these type of arguments make me say that. Well, I actually am saying worse in my head but I am a lady, afterall.
Nice to see you Greenpearl, I was wondering where you were!
Re: Parrothead, why the delete button to the "SA challenge"?
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Originally Posted by greenpearl
Parrothead,
I think Jesus will be ashamed of you.
From your posts, you are very rude.
Jesus is mild and humble, I don't see you are showing any of his qualities, so what if you believe in him.
I don't think you know much about Jesus. I don't think Catherine does, either. Jesus was not Ghandi. Jesus often made his point forcefully if he needed to.
When the truth depends on it, I do, too.
Now, if you have something to add, add it. If you two have nothing to contribute beside gratuitous personal attacks, butt out.
Re: Parrothead, why the delete button to the "SA challenge"?
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Originally Posted by Catherine602
I too have questioned my faith. I was at one time a devout Catholic. I happened to meet a learned, wise and kind professor in college who was Jewish and he engaged me. We talked of evil, suffering, pain, differences in the state of a child born in a low cate in Calcutta Vs. an English noble.
And I bet this Professor opened your eyes in some ways, things never considered before. Aren't we all here to enrich, to engage another in some ways -so long as they are GOOD ways.
Always loved the Movie "The Breakfast Club" - it wasn't about different religions... but throwing together -because of detention
..... a popular chick, a trouble making Burnout, a Bookworm Nerd, a Jock & the quiet Outcast who hides her face in shame --and they all became friends.... ONCE they started listening to each other , and put their preconceived ideas & prejudices aside.
They could have easily been 5 people of 5 different religions who put their doctrines aside for a time & opened up their hearts & minds....and still befriended each other. I am sure such movies exist, I would like to see more. I really get into stuff like that.
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My route back to faith was through the knowledge of science. The utter perfection of the universe, I believe, could only have been designed by a Devine hand. If He can do that then He must know what He is doing, though it is beyond my abilities to understand .
Couldn't agree with you more !
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However, I believe it is the people who come to God through faith alone are most prized, unlike me.
Faith alone is also TOO Much for me! Absolutely, not afraid to say it at all. I am a skeptic at heart, I look to science, nature, statistics, reason, I look to history, where we have been, what has been learned in the aftermath. I have always compared myself to a doubting Thomas, even bought a book with such a title once in my Christian days. I need to see my feet on the ground, reality , as harsh as it may be. I've never been the Dreamer type. But then, I believe God made ME this way, I am not supposed to be a NOAH , or someone HE endowed with such visions of faith. And that is OK too. I'm not going to beat myself up over it either.
Whatever I am supposed to do in this life, even IF JUST being a MOM to bring up healthy minded kids who can benefit society, my feet will be planted on the ground. Won't be any Ark building in my back yard. THe kids did enjoy "Evan Almighty" though.
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I do read the Bible and I am guided by some very comforting passages.
I believe the Bible is for ALL, even other faiths can find comfort in many many passages. Many would match their own beliefs anyway, just worded differently. Here is the Golden Rule -worded how other Holy Book speak it Versions of the Golden Rule in 21 world religions
Much of The Bible is downright common sense too , some of those Proverbs are even funny!
How about Prov 21:9 -"Better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife" Verse 19 says ...better to live in the desert!
When I couldn't conceive I felt God understood (Prov 30:16) I used to pray over the persistent Widow/unjust Judge scriptures
about conceiving - He got so tired of hearing from that woman, he gave her what she was asking! I always prayed over 1 Thes 4:11 -12 for our family.
Here is an interesting one .....(Makes you stop & think )....Prov 24:17- 18 "Don't gloat when your enemy falls; When he stumbles , do not let your heart rejoice , Or the Lord will see and disapprove and turn his wrath away from him".!
YIKES!! I had that one circled big with arrows in my bible!
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The Beatitudes
To me, these passages show a God that is wide in His acceptance of us. The way is narrow but not exclusive to intellectuals, apparently learned men who come up with seemingly cogent arguments, or the formally educated, or those who never question.
Here they are : "Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied. Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God. Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven
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I think we are expected to be Gods emissaries and to use His gifts in service to Him. He washed the feet of a beggar after all, how many pompous azzes would stoup to that?
You know it, it "starts" with some Humility before others.
Norm Geisler is good. William Lane Craig is good, too, but pretty dense stuff. If you can't afford books, try Ravi Zacharias' apologetic series, "Let My People Think". You can access the
MP3 files free.
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My thirst was NOT quenched. Maybe if I was born retarted, I would go to Heaven, but unfortunetly , my Creater instilled within me a LUST for questioning, seeking, wanting to know both sides of a story, uprooting the WHY's behind the mysteries of our time.
There is more, you just haven't seen it.
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I desire to hear FULLY both sides of the story. I just don't happen to agree with you.
When you have heard both sides, you will.
Here is an illustration for you ...... It is a bizzare one, but stay with me......
I still have some Shel Silverstein books around here somewhere, "Where the Sidewalk Ends" is one, and I used to have "The Giving Tree", so I am very familiar with him. Shel Silverstein is a pothead, not a prophet.
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My point in this is : Mankind can take the same Book, the same Portrait, the same story - and still get something completely & utterly different from it.
You can't compare Shel to God, but I get the point.
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You are correct , we BOTH can not be RIGHT !! But then again, maybe both of us are WRONG! Neither you nor I can PROVE with any Certainty that we are RIGHT in our beliefs. I never claimed that of myself, nor will I.
Well, saying we could both be wrong is more reasonable than saying we are both right.
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As I go along in life, there are certain things I will reject in belief as I have seen it HURT other people, not necessarily your specified beliefs, but how such have used the literal interpretation - yes. That is my position.
It doesn't matter whether it hurts. Surgical knives and needles hurt, too, but in the long run you are better off to have the cancer removed.
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Our MINDS work differently, YOU see Unconditional LOVE in the way GOd has Designed us helpless, depraved, dust, wretched, sinful, evil -not being capable of living "Good enough" to ACCEPT his own Creation, and the NEED for a Savior, a blood sacrifice, or we all DESERVE to burn in Hell. I do not see Love in this. I am sorry. MY brain does not work the same as yours in this area. I think that concept is Monsterous and Masochistic.
It is my intention to convince you otherwise.
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And as I have cited before, which I am sure you will not care to understand my position, but I look upon US as capable of living "Good enough" without a blood sacrifice - I didnt say we didn't sin, for me, sin does NOT = HELL , damnation , burning for eternity. For me , it = we can do better, we can get right with our brother , we do our best to appease for our mistakes here on earth, Love in our hearts is the determining factor to whether we are walking in accordance to our Creators "acceptance" of us. Did we forgive, did we learn anything, do we want to make a difference, can we help someone today, built a bridge of understanding?
If that's the way you want it, how good is good?
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I guess I see God as Forgiving and NOT blood thirsty. Maybe that means I see him as not PERFECT, I am not sure, after all HE made us, then according to scripture decided to destroy all mankind through a flood for the blunder -excect one family, he counted Noah as upright ! And he got DRUNK TOO!
God does forgive, but you have to ASK, not declare your righteousness to him, saying, "How dare you, God?"
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If I am wrong, I will go to Hell.
Hell of a price to pay to prove a point.
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For me to go back to those beliefs that warred against my mind is not something I have any desire to do.
You don't have to go back to those beliefs, you can have new beliefs. Are you afraid to hear me out?
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And I do NOT call myself a Chrisitan, I used to be, or I will say it like this ....I THOUGHT I was , I tried to be, I tried to walk the walk. I do not believe I ever truly was, because I was a doubter & struggling questioner the entire time.
So? As I told you, you ARE a Christian, whether you like it or not, if not in a bit of a transition.
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I was always fasinated by "belief" -had many cult books (only written from Christian perspective) comparing faiths, and forever trying to CONVINCE myself Christians were RIGHT but I never was able to "get there".
I don't know this book, so I can't endorse it. But Jews are not always very good at explaining Christianity.
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I wanted every one of my children, I make no apologies for not living more high society, I have no desire too, even if we had more $$, I would choose to live frugally so I would have more to "give" who need it more than I. It makes you feel good when you help others, that is from GOD.
The ones you need to give the most to are the kids. That's scriptural.
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I am not sure why you keep thinking I am a Christian, I have said many times I am NOT.
Because if you were baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit you are sealed.
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And I agree with you on this, to not believe Jesus was born of a virgin & reject Original Sin, is to NOT be a Christian, those are part of the universal creed of christianity. I informed those Mormons who came to my door exactly why they are NOT Christians, because they sided with Pelagius was who deemed Heretical , unorthodox.
When it comes to doctrine, you are correct.
Why, thank you
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The problem here is this - and again, I am on more side of the liberal Chrstian soul -not ALL believers take a literal interpretation and they put MORE weight on Jesus' WORDS in Parables--how he instructed others to live and LESS weight on the words of PAUL about salvation. Some just don't think about these things, and they may even be a JESUS JUNKY, and still call themselves "Christians". Personally I am not bothered by this and would get along better with these types, but you already know this.
It doesn't have to be literal, it has to be internally consistent.
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For them , if they are sincere, it is MORE about the heart than DOCTRINE - that is my position also. But I take it a step further and would never call myself a christian again. I have no desire for the Fundamentalists to throw this in my face, so I remove that option .
Emotions are notoriously unreliable, that is why we use reason. Yes, there is room for reason in Christianity.
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To be honest, I know very little about Monks, I thought they just prayed ALL day long, how are they trying to improve anything- if they are not out & about in society- moving among people?
Monks do pray a lot. They also serve mankind in various ways, but most of all, they believe that their prayers make a difference in world affairs.
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I would imagine them to be extremely HORNY & lonely, I have read where they have to do x amount of hail marys to overcome a sinful thought, how SILLY this sounds to me. Of coarse I do not have the facts.
Not knowing, I hesitate to reply. Anglican brothers are allowed to marry.
But I have not one issue with the method used to help these men, I think God would agree with it. Bill Wilson, the founder was an Alcoholic who became a Believer, his heart was set on fire to help these men-- While lying in a hospital bed depressed & despairing, Wilson cried out: "I'll do anything! Anything at all! If there be a God, let Him show Himself" - He then had the sensation of a bright light, a feeling of ecstasy, and a new serenity. I would say that was GOD!
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I really don't understand what is wrong with the Serenity Prayer-for you at all. Of coarse they are believing in GOD when they say it.
I have heard AA's say they don't even believe in God, their higher power is a tree. Really.
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I talked to a friend last night, she goes to church faithfully, involved in a Bible study group for yrs, , she has a heart of Gold, I have always been impressed by her, we have talked about many things, even she admits, she has problems with this idea that no others faiths go to Heaven, she disagrees too!
I never said otherwise, but I have some qualifications for saying that. I don't think you can poke God in the eye and expect him to let you in his house, though.
I have to go, I will try and get to the rest of this later.
Re: Parrothead, why the delete button to the "SA challenge"?
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Originally Posted by that_girl
Stop limiting God.
Saying what you don't think God would do or not do is limiting Him.
Stop it.
You are not God. God is God. And we already know what he would do. If you don't like it that's too bad, but the same book that gave us the notion of God tells us what he thinks. You say you don't believe in our God anyway, so what do you know about it? Sorry if that's "rude" but it is logical.
Re: Parrothead, why the delete button to the "SA challenge"?
The next person who thinks they get to redefine my religion to suit themselves will have his religion redefined to suit me. If you object to that, you're "rude".
Re: Parrothead, why the delete button to the "SA challenge"?
Joanie,
Catherine,
Thanks!
I have been doing puzzles. It took me a month to put together a one thousand piece puzzle, but then one second the puzzle fell apart because I wanted to put it up. Ooooooooooooooh, it really hurt.
I have been reading here on TAM, just not posting. Need to recharge my battery!
Re: Parrothead, why the delete button to the "SA challenge"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrothead
I don't think you know much about Jesus. I don't think Catherine does, either. Jesus was not Ghandi. Jesus often made his point forcefully if he needed to.
When the truth depends on it, I do, too.
Now, if you have something to add, add it. If you two have nothing to contribute beside gratuitous personal attacks, butt out.
Yes, you are right. Jesus was very forceful when he was scolding those people who just followed doctrines and rules.
Sometimes I am thinking if Jesus were here on the earth now, would he be happy to see what's going on on the earth? Would he be happy with those people who use His name to preach? Or those people are actually the ones He was scolding when he was on earth.
Re: Parrothead, why the delete button to the "SA challenge"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrothead
The next person who thinks they get to redefine my religion to suit themselves will have his religion redefined to suit me. If you object to that, you're "rude".
Parrothead,
I don't know how strong you feel about your religion.
It's very natural for us to think that we are right, and others are wrong.
But think, just think. Other people also have the same kind of attitude, they think they are right and the rest of us are wrong.
We can have our opinion, we live the way we want to live. But we also should give others respect for having their opinion.
Who is right? Who is wrong? Who cares?
If you don't have peace in your heart, that's all matters!
Re: Parrothead, why the delete button to the "SA challenge"?
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Originally Posted by Parrothead
You are not God. God is God. And we already know what he would do. If you don't like it that's too bad, but the same book that gave us the notion of God tells us what he thinks. You say you don't believe in our God anyway, so what do you know about it? Sorry if that's "rude" but it is logical.
Parrothead listen to me: I don't want you thrown off this forum OK, I am speaking this so you WON'T. Not everyone here is going to take your comments as easily as me , heck I would haggle with the devil himself & not report him to the Moderator, so long as he couldn't throw me in the flames, it is just the way I am. But not everyone may take so kindly to your responses. Some are more sensitive , and I don't want this to turn into a verbal Punching match.
You are the Christian who is trying to lead here - listen to the BOOK --in dealing with others ....
Proverbs 19:11
A man's wisdom gives him patience;
It is TO his glory to overlook an offense.
All of us - need to heed that on this thread. Or it may get shut down. I would rather it not. I might invite my son... if he has time. I do wonder how he would fare with you- dealing with me.
Re: Parrothead, why the delete button to the "SA challenge"?
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Originally Posted by greenpearl
Yes, you are right. Jesus was very forceful when he was scolding those people who just followed doctrines and rules.
No, he was very forceful in scolding the people who distorted God's law to their own advantage. So don't misquote Jesus and claim you are in line with him. I'll call you on it every time.
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Sometimes I am thinking if Jesus were here on the earth now, would he be happy to see what's going on on the earth?
Well, if you believe in who he is, he IS here.
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Would he be happy with those people who use His name to preach?
That's what he wanted them to do. If you had been paying attention in Sunday school you'd know that.
Mark 16:15
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He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."
Harsh words, huh? This is not the Jesus you know from the Oprah book club, it's the Jesus of the Bible.
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What's Jesus's purpose coming to the earth?
To bring salvation to all mankind, not to give a few words of advice you can take or leave.
Re: Parrothead, why the delete button to the "SA challenge"?
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Originally Posted by Parrothead
You are not God. God is God. And we already know what he would do. If you don't like it that's too bad, but the same book that gave us the notion of God tells us what he thinks. You say you don't believe in our God anyway, so what do you know about it? Sorry if that's "rude" but it is logical.
Wow. You're the reason why I'm glad I'm not in a "church".
I never said I didn't believe in YOUR God. LOL you own God? brilliant.
You're rude. And mean. Some CHRISTian you are. However, I've had a good laugh. So-- thanks!
You still can't limit God. Once you do, you are saying you are better than God. Which, obviously, you are not.
Re: Parrothead, why the delete button to the "SA challenge"?
SA: Don't worry about me! I'm not sensitive. This is funny stuff and just confirms my conviction that church is NOT where I want to be if I'm around people like PH.
Re: Parrothead, why the delete button to the "SA challenge"? 
I never said I didn't believe in YOUR God. LOL you own God? brilliant.
