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Old 11-22-2011, 04:12 PM   #706 (permalink)
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Default Re: Feminism....

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Originally Posted by Therealbrighteyes View Post
While I wouldn't say men are handed respect, they certainly aren't behind the eight ball in having to prove something extra, due to their gender as women were. You sure didn't see men getting groped by their bosses and had to deal with it.
18 years of child support upon finding out a wife is pregnant? With an attitude like that, they WILL be divorced in short order. Also, I see it time and time again how men seem to think women use kids as a cash cow or to "screw them". Do you know how much it costs to raise a child? The "gold digger" gets 20%. I should be so lucky to only use 20% of my income to pay for my childrens needs. With college, cars, clothes, food, extra electricity, car insurance, sports fees, medical bills.....I would trade places in a heartbeat to only have to pay 20%. In a freaking second. Women aren't as "protected" as you would like to think. In fact, there's a reason why a womans standard of living goes down after divorce while a mans does not. This notion that men get screwed is just that....a notion.

From money to emotions: Get over your divorce - Relationships - TODAY.com
Women's standard of living decreases by 45% by the very nature of losing half of the income base from the relationship. Not sure how true your above quote is when it comes to an established career woman. Furthermore, 20% might just be a paycheck amount you're talking about without adding in the hidden costs of hiring lawyers and the large amount of lost time (gas, lost wages, etc.) going through the gears of the court system, in addition to managing newly separated lives + joint visits/custody. Men often have to continually go back to court for an "adjustment" in child support and a lot of other stuff. I have talked to men in that situation, so I'm not just making it up out of thin air.

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Originally Posted by Therealbrighteyes View Post
With college, cars, clothes, food, extra electricity, car insurance, sports fees, medical bills...
There is also the two-earner income trap debate depending on the couple's situation and life decisions.

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Originally Posted by LimboGirl View Post
Studies show that after divorce, women with children run a high risk of living in poverty. This is very true.
This is actually the last thing I want to see. I think men, if they decide to have children, should do what it takes to take care of them. Feminism pushes individualism in the female, and while noble in intent, it has essentially released men from their obligations, thereby swelling the ranks of single-motherhood.

What I'm saying to you Therealbrighteyes is that many good men get blindsided by divorce too. I have seen reports time and time again that on the whole, marriage is financially better for women. However, the notion that men are the only ones who seek or want a divorce is just that...a notion, particularly--and especially--when it comes to educated women.
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:48 PM   #707 (permalink)
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In other words keep women dumb, unemployed and totally dependant on a man. Women turn in to men by sheer virtue of having an education or a job and feminism would have been better served if they validated these dumb unemployed housewives? I'm speechless and just


I had to stop being friends with this woman my age, because she was stupid and had no ambition.

All she wanted to do was push out babies and stay home with them. She did not try to persue higher education or a career. Hello? Is this 1952??

Her husband is European, which may be part of the reason he is fine with a dumb housewife who depends on him. The women are paid to stay home by the German government.

In the end, we just didn't have anything in common. I would rather drink bleach than live off of a man, which is why I am returning to school to further my career prospects.

I am married to a real man, who is not threatened by strong women. He is very proud of me for being ambitious.
Of course, according to ManDup, I am going to leave him once I get too much smarts in my pretty little head.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:15 AM   #708 (permalink)
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Default Re: Feminism....

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Originally Posted by mr.rightaway View Post
Women's standard of living decreases by 45% by the very nature of losing half of the income base from the relationship. Not sure how true your above quote is when it comes to an established career woman. Furthermore, 20% might just be a paycheck amount you're talking about without adding in the hidden costs of hiring lawyers and the large amount of lost time (gas, lost wages, etc.) going through the gears of the court system, in addition to managing newly separated lives + joint visits/custody. Men often have to continually go back to court for an "adjustment" in child support and a lot of other stuff. I have talked to men in that situation, so I'm not just making it up out of thin air.



There is also the two-earner income trap debate depending on the couple's situation and life decisions.



This is actually the last thing I want to see. I think men, if they decide to have children, should do what it takes to take care of them. Feminism pushes individualism in the female, and while noble in intent, it has essentially released men from their obligations, thereby swelling the ranks of single-motherhood.

What I'm saying to you Therealbrighteyes is that many good men get blindsided by divorce too. I have seen reports time and time again that on the whole, marriage is financially better for women. However, the notion that men are the only ones who seek or want a divorce is just that...a notion, particularly--and especially--when it comes to educated women.
I think the stats about women post divorce include working women. Just pulling out an arbitrary number here but a woman making $30k a year and a husband making $100k with two kids in the mix get divorced, the husband would be required to give $20k to his children. So financially speaking, the woman now has $50k to support her two children on and the husband has $80k to use how he sees fit. The problem there is that the kids have been used to a household income of $130k and more than likely costs more than $10k a piece to raise. See the problem?
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:16 AM   #709 (permalink)
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I had to stop being friends with this woman my age, because she was stupid and had no ambition.

All she wanted to do was push out babies and stay home with them. She did not try to persue higher education or a career. Hello? Is this 1952??

Her husband is European, which may be part of the reason he is fine with a dumb housewife who depends on him. The women are paid to stay home by the German government.

In the end, we just didn't have anything in common. I would rather drink bleach than live off of a man, which is why I am returning to school to further my career prospects.

I am married to a real man, who is not threatened by strong women. He is very proud of me for being ambitious.
Of course, according to ManDup, I am going to leave him once I get too much smarts in my pretty little head.
Yup, education and goals by women = the downfall of marriage/the family home/men and civilization.
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Old 11-23-2011, 03:13 PM   #710 (permalink)
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Are you presuming that their father only spends the official child support on his kids?
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Your post doesn't make sense to me. I was assuming the mother got custody and the father is court ordered to pay child support. I am not understanding what your question is.
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:08 AM   #711 (permalink)
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As a father, I can see the official child support as that which is controlled by an ex-wife.

Anything else needed is controlled by himself. College ain't cheap. The prom, vacations, more clothes, car insurance, dance lessons, etc.

Not hard, I know you could get it if I explained better.
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Oh, okay. I get what you are saying now. I agree that not all expenses are made up in that 20% but the fact remains that is all a spouse is LEGALLY required to pay for. An ex could just pay the court ordered 20% and nothing more. College isn't required for an ex to pay for, regardless if the other party is paying for it.
I have posted about my situation before in that if my husband wanted to walk out tomorrow, he would legally be required to pay 20% for his youngest son and nothing for his eldest, despite the eldest living with us and attending a very expensive private college. I would be sol, literally as would his eldest son. Would he do that? No. He's a far better father than that but you hear nightmare divorces where the kids suffer because the parents want to hurt each other any way possible. I could easily see the situation I mentioned happen to many many children.
I still maintain (ovbviously not your case Michzz) that mothers far worse after a divorce and the stats back that up. Not sure why society thinks they hit the jackpot.
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:14 AM   #712 (permalink)
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I still don't see how a woman who chooses to stay home and push out babies is a problem. She's choosing to do so.

I have a good friend who doesn't have formal education past HS, and is a baby maker with her husband. She's a brilliant woman and her life and how she lives it is her choice.

Isn't that feminism? Choice? Women didn't have choices back in the day, now we do. That's how I look at it anyway.
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Old 11-26-2011, 02:39 PM   #713 (permalink)
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Default Re: Feminism....

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I still don't see how a woman who chooses to stay home and push out babies is a problem. She's choosing to do so.

I have a good friend who doesn't have formal education past HS, and is a baby maker with her husband. She's a brilliant woman and her life and how she lives it is her choice.

Isn't that feminism? Choice? Women didn't have choices back in the day, now we do. That's how I look at it anyway.


Nothing wrong with a woman staying home and taking care of the kids and house. It's hard work. It's also work that contributes to the family, it just doesn't bring in a paycheck.

Also nothing wrong with not going to college. All the college educated office workers wouldn't have an office to work in, electricity for their computers, desks to sit at, etc. if not for the laborers, electricians, carpenters, plumbers......

Everyone has a right to their choice.
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Old 11-27-2011, 11:54 PM   #714 (permalink)
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Nothing wrong with a woman staying home and taking care of the kids and house. It's hard work. It's also work that contributes to the family, it just doesn't bring in a paycheck.

Also nothing wrong with not going to college. All the college educated office workers wouldn't have an office to work in, electricity for their computers, desks to sit at, etc. if not for the laborers, electricians, carpenters, plumbers......

Everyone has a right to their choice.
Where I come from, tradespeople have to go to college for whatever trade they choose. That is what my father did as a welder.

Housework and raising children is definately hard work. I just believe that in this day and age, it doesn't bode well for a woman to be financially dependent on a man. Anything can happen to the marriage or husband.
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:03 PM   #715 (permalink)
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Nothing wrong with a woman staying home and taking care of the kids and house. It's hard work. It's also work that contributes to the family, it just doesn't bring in a paycheck.

Also nothing wrong with not going to college. All the college educated office workers wouldn't have an office to work in, electricity for their computers, desks to sit at, etc. if not for the laborers, electricians, carpenters, plumbers......

Everyone has a right to their choice.
At my fathers place of work, they hired two female co-op students in the HR department over the summer. He tells me they were dumb as bricks, and couldnt handle a slow paced office environment. Going to post secondary, taking the full career route doesnt make you any smarter or better than a woman who chooses to be a stay at home mom.

Secondly, my sister in law was contemplating the stay-at-home route after the birth of their second daughter. Reason being: Why pay someone 85% of her monthly take home pay to look after her kids for her, just so she could have an extra hundred bucks in her wallet???

Thirdly, my wife and I discussed that she will be a stay at home mom assuming the finances will allow it. My wife loves children and took the Early Childhood Education Program. Her passion in life is children. Right now, her passion is other peoples autistic kids. In the future, her passion will be our children. Thats what she wants, and I support her. It has zero to do with me being the man, and the bread winner.

Thirdly, I present the late George Carlin on Feminism.

"I also happen to like it when feminists attack these fat-ass housewives who think there's nothing more to life that sitting home on the telephone,
drinking coffee, watching TV and pumping out a baby every nine months.
P-poom, p-poom, p-poom, p-poom, p-poom...will seven be enough Bob?
...p-poom, p-poom. But what's the alternative? What's the alternative to pumping out a unit every nine months?
Pointless careerism? Pointless careerism? Putting on a man-tailored suit with shoulder pads and imitating all the worst behavior of men?
This is the noblest thing that women can think of?
To take a job in a criminal corporation that's poisoning the environment and robbing customers out of their money?
This is the worthiest thing they can think of? Isn't there something nobler they can do to be helping this planet heal?
You don't hear much about that from these middle-class women.
I've noticed that most of these feminists are white middle-class women.
They don't give a **** about black women's problems.
They don't care about Latino women.
All their interested in is their own reproductive freedom...and their pocketbooks.


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Old 11-29-2011, 12:33 PM   #716 (permalink)
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I have no clue why everybody is getting all uppity. I don't believe it was stated here that a career woman is intrinsically better than a SAHM. I never felt that way. I have however said that I would strongly discourage a woman from giving up financial dependence due to the fact that the laws have changed so drastically and there is little financial protection for a woman who has been out of the work force for many years raising children.

As for Carlin, if you believe that, then clearly feminism is lost on you. If middle class white women don't care about the plight of any other woman with a different skin color, then explain to me why is it that women (gasp....white middle class women) brought to the worlds attention female genital mutilation and breast rolling....two decidedly "none white" womens issues? Nevermind that we continue to fight for womens rights globally (me in Mexico) both with our voices, time and wallets. Never saw Carlin care much except when Comedy Central was filming him, Whoopi and Billy to raise funds for homeless people. After the cameras stopped rolling he most certainly took hoards of homeless men, women and children to his mid town Manhattan 46th floor apartment, right? Ever seen it? I have. He sure took NIMBY to a whole new level while of course pointing a crooked finger at everybody else.....particularly white middle class women.
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Old 11-29-2011, 12:43 PM   #717 (permalink)
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I have no clue why everybody is getting all uppity. I don't believe it was stated here that a career woman is intrinsically better than a SAHM.
Previously posted on post #726:

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In other words keep women dumb, unemployed and totally dependant on a man. Women turn in to men by sheer virtue of having an education or a job and feminism would have been better served if they validated these dumb unemployed housewives? I'm speechless and just
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Old 11-29-2011, 12:54 PM   #718 (permalink)
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Previously posted on post #726:



That was in response to ManDup's ridiculous assertion that a career women will eventually become less attracted to her spouse and to prevent that, make sure that she lacks education, a career and options. I have never nor will I ever suggest that a SAHM is dumb.......ever. My point was that HE thought it best to limit opportunities for women and keep them intellictually inferior to men. So I used his "keep 'em dumb and at home" meme that HE trotted out. Plenty of smart SAHM's. PLENTY.
Lest I remind you that I was a SAHM for 6 years and I hardly consider myself to be an idiot.
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:14 PM   #719 (permalink)
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In other words keep women dumb, unemployed and totally dependant on a man. Women turn in to men by sheer virtue of having an education or a job and feminism would have been better served if they validated these dumb unemployed housewives? I'm speechless and just
Um, noo. There are two things - equality of opportunity and equality of outcome. I have no problem with the first, but a big problem with forcing the second. Women should be given every opportunity to do whatever they want in business etc. However, the roles that used to exist should be encouraged, because they are useful, and societies that encourage family units with specialized roles will trounce societies like our current one that does not. The US is doomed long term if we don't solve these problems. Studies show that all this single-momhood is bad for kids and bad for society, but it has become the norm. Boys will become juvenile delinquents and girls will become single moms.

Edit: Also, I don't think feminism would be better served, and good riddance to it. I think society and women would be better served, because women would be happier in a submissive role on the whole. That's not to say women shouldn't be allowed to be dominant if that truly makes them happy, but by and large it does not, and even the feminist voices of old like Naomi Wolf are starting to question whether all this sexual freedom and independence really does net them more than a good husband would have.

Last edited by ManDup; 11-29-2011 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:23 PM   #720 (permalink)
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I think the stats about women post divorce include working women. Just pulling out an arbitrary number here but a woman making $30k a year and a husband making $100k with two kids in the mix get divorced, the husband would be required to give $20k to his children. So financially speaking, the woman now has $50k to support her two children on and the husband has $80k to use how he sees fit. The problem there is that the kids have been used to a household income of $130k and more than likely costs more than $10k a piece to raise. See the problem?
Yes, I see the problem. It is that a woman who can only earn 30 k expects to get 65 k for no reason, simply because "she's used to it."

Edit: or maybe she "deserves" more than that, because that still leaves the man with 65 k and no obligations. Hmmm, I wonder if the man did anything to deserve that.

Last edited by ManDup; 11-29-2011 at 03:48 PM.
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