Feminism.... - Page 5
 Talk About Marriage
  The Marriage Advice and Relationship Help Forums
  right
Forums - For Therapists - Link to Us - Advertise  

    A Public Forum Provided by The Family & Marriage Counseling Directory
Register FAQ Community Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Navigation »Talk About Marriage »Off Topic »Politics and Religion » Feminism....

Politics and Religion This is the place to discuss politics, morality, religion, and anything controversial.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-12-2011, 06:09 AM   #61 (permalink)
Member
 
bubbly girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 358
Default Re: Feminism....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.rightaway View Post
Right, because if the true premise was that she got bored, stopped putting effort into the marriage and the man, had EAs and PAs consistently, that would not be sell-able to a wide audience and a gullible public. Everyone is just supposed to lap it up as acceptable or to be looked at as funny or happy. It's not. There is life (a new beginning) from death (the end of a relationship) and the events of that are of course in accordance to the ability of humans to move on, adapt and so forth, but using the gay angle is an easy, excuse-less reason (an easy out) for the woman to have been divorced, giving the show legitimacy and all the other garbage that goes with it on that basis alone. Of course that happens. My mother had a friend where this very same thing happened where her husband of 10+ years turned out to be gay. The actual chances of this being the case are not the norm.

I would also add that the man chose to marry and have kids, and if he had inclinations that he was gay, he has a responsibility to see the marriage through. It is his responsibility and the fact that he made the decision to create a marriage and a family and then cause that devastation...frankly it's childish behavior and he is therefore not a true man but a child behaving on whatever whim strikes his fancy without concern to the people's lives he affects.
The show is based on Fran Drescher's real life, not made up. Her real life husband did that to her. My point was merely that this show does not support your previous post.
bubbly girl is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-12-2011, 06:33 AM   #62 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 161
Default Re: Feminism....

Quote:
The show is based on Fran Drescher's real life, not made up. Her real life husband did that to her. My point was merely that this show does not support your previous post.
It is a statement about what is now acceptable in society as a whole from previous generations and where things have gone, which has to do with some of the affects of feminism (and other issues), and that is exactly what my post was about. I will leave it at that.
mr.rightaway is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2011, 07:04 AM   #63 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 10,155
Default Re: Feminism....

A higher percentage of women and kids are now living in poverty than even during the Great Depression. The greatest percentage of poor households are headed by a single mother. Our kids are more delinquent, more violent, and less educated. The single most reliable predictor of academic success for a kid is to have an involved father and mother in the home. That's also the best preventive against juvenile delinquency. Feminism may have originated with good intentions but the unintended consequences have been terrible.
unbelievable is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2011, 07:47 AM   #64 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,724
Default Re: Feminism....

Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelievable View Post
A higher percentage of women and kids are now living in poverty than even during the Great Depression. The greatest percentage of poor households are headed by a single mother. Our kids are more delinquent, more violent, and less educated. The single most reliable predictor of academic success for a kid is to have an involved father and mother in the home. That's also the best preventive against juvenile delinquency. Feminism may have originated with good intentions but the unintended consequences have been terrible.
Totally agree. In the UK it’s a massive problem, over a million households without a man in them. Mothers with 3, 4 or 5 children from different fathers and all living off the state. Slum estates where little hooligans literally terrorise householders. There’s not the firm hand of the father, the tough love with the sons, or the ever watchful eye over his daughters. So they all feel free to do what they will, just like feral kids. And they do. And they get away with it to such an extent that thousands of them go smashing and looting on the streets in our cities. And finally the law gets tough and the strong firm hand of Man comes down. But it’s too late for the majority of those kiddies, their fate and destiny is already set.
AFEH is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2011, 08:31 AM   #65 (permalink)
Member
 
Enchantment's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,350
Default Re: Feminism....

I think that there's a lot more than the advent of feminism that is contributing to the declines in our society mentioned by unbelievable. Feminism just happened to be one of many things that was happening in the turbulent 60's which included the civil rights movement and the creation of a whole generation who were against 'establishment'. The crazy decade of the 60's led to the creation of future generations who are increasingly focused on 'me, me, me' and the beast gets fed more and more by the advent of social media and our culture of inter-connectedness.

If I had to say which was a greater driver, I would put my money on the 'hippies' over the 'feminists'. The feminists at least were trying to level the playing field for something of the greater good, but the hippy generation was pulling apart the social fabric that had held people together. The greater good no longer applied unless it applied only to 'me'.

Just a different perspective. Here's a provocative way of looking at it: Me, me, me! America
__________________
Enter these enchanted woods, You who dare. ~ George Meredith
Enchantment is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2011, 08:44 AM   #66 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: In an igloo.
Posts: 2,004
Default Re: Feminism....

Too many feminists want all of the rights, but none of the responsibilities.
FirstYearDown is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2011, 08:47 AM   #67 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,724
Default Re: Feminism....

Feminists are mainly blind to their shadow. Especially the victim feminists, all they do is persecute man, any man. But social liberalism has a lot to answer for as well. Teaching them sex as seven year olds and then making the morning after pill available to the under sixteens without the parentís knowledge let alone their consent. ďI just wanna a baby and a house. I donít HAVE to work, I donít need qualifications and I certainly donít need a man! The State will take care of me.Ē. It takes more than one ism by itself to create such a mess.
AFEH is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2011, 08:48 AM   #68 (permalink)
Member
 
Therealbrighteyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,647
Default Re: Feminism....

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstYearDown View Post
Too many feminists want all of the rights, but none of the responsibilities.
You do not understand feminism at all then.
Therealbrighteyes is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2011, 08:54 AM   #69 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Halien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Earth that Was
Posts: 2,594
Default Re: Feminism....

Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelievable View Post
A higher percentage of women and kids are now living in poverty than even during the Great Depression. The greatest percentage of poor households are headed by a single mother. Our kids are more delinquent, more violent, and less educated. The single most reliable predictor of academic success for a kid is to have an involved father and mother in the home. That's also the best preventive against juvenile delinquency. Feminism may have originated with good intentions but the unintended consequences have been terrible.
I recognize that many see feminism as a contributor, but its important to note that correlation between two activities does not mean that one caused the other. I look to my mother as a perfect example. For years, she was a single mother. She became so because my father left her for another woman. In the late sixties, many people in our part of the country started looking at marriage as less important than their own personal happiness. My dad never paid child support. This was also a time where for many people, taking government assistance was considered to be a bad example for young kids. She was only half native american, so tribal assistance also not available to us.

So, my mom went to work in a factory that made school buses. She needed more money, so she applied for a position in a section that only had men. Since she was a woman, and the men had families to support, she made less money, even though her production was higher. She fought and won equal pay. Only recently did she tell me that she only kept the job because she had to sleep with the supervisor, who was threatening to get her fired unless she repaid him for his assistance in her case with the state labor department. I'm hard pressed to say that her feminist stance hurt us as kids. I know this is only one example, but it is what the feminist movement was really about, outside the intellectual realm. She was far from being a good mom, but I would never tell her so. I spent a fair amount of time as homeless, or being a guest of state programs. Most of the problems in our little corner of the world seemed to be tied more to a general selfishness that began to flourish with her generation.
Halien is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2011, 09:13 AM   #70 (permalink)
Member
 
Enchantment's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,350
Default Re: Feminism....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.rightaway View Post
IanIronwood, your post (#16) is one of the most accurate, in-depth explanations of what has gone on that I have read to date.

I could not agree more. It is actually rather unfortunate, but as a successful male myself, there is absolutely no incentive at all to be with a woman. So even if a modern man has a vast amount of great qualities (character, integrity and so on) and would prefer lifelong marriage, partnership, kids and the white picket fence, why in the world would he knowingly throw away all control of his future to be with a woman when he has no protection whatsoever in this day and age? The choice then is that many men are choosing to stay single or, as you have stated, avoid marriage altogether and accept the fate of in-and-out, baseless relationships. For at any time if the woman isn't happy, she can just leave or cause all kinds of trouble due to "protections" via the court and family law system. And even if she wanted to be a housewife, that is also no longer desirable because men have come to expect that they no longer need to fill the role of provider and will expect a woman to have something going for herself. The mistake I see women today make is that they seem to believe men don't know all of this and they think they have all the power, when in fact, any man who has any control of himself is making the decision to not only avoid marriage, but avoid the female altogether due to the massive risk and rapidly decreasing reward. The pendulum is slowly starting to swing back but I'm not sure where it has anywhere to go, because the feminism cat is already out of the bag. Society in its totality is NOT better off.

"Leave it to Beaver" (1957 - 1963)
"Happily Divorced" (2011 - Present)

Pathetic.
I think that there are also many women anymore who see marriage as a bad deal. I'm sure that there are many women who wonder why they would need a man to take care of when the woman can just as easily and perhaps more happily take care of just herself. It is interesting that statistically, women after divorce are much happier than men after divorce, are more willing to file for divorce, and are more willing to stay unmarried (by choice) after divorce.

I think part of it is a shift in what is considered important for each party to bring to a marriage. No longer can a man simply bring financial security and no longer can a woman simply bring sex and nurturing. BOTH men and women now need to bring a much greater bag of relational skills to a marriage.

I also think that men are having a hard time (some women too maybe) when a woman is pulled off of the virtuous pedestal she had been placed upon in generations past. When you have believed that women are naturally more monogamous, believe that women are somehow better morally than to cheat, or believe that women have a more naturally conversative sexuality, and you actually find out that women are in fact more like men that you would have ever thought (in that none of those beliefs is actually truth), a little bit of the fairy tale dies and disillusionment in women and marriage sets in. It is some of the same disillusionment women have perhaps had about marriage, but often had little choice, until recently, to do anything about.

In essence, we ALL have the same human foibles and failings (as well as the opposite grander virtuous characteristics if we so choose).

I don't watch much TV, but the following are some shows that I can think of that had both strong fathers/mothers and happy marriage/family. I can't document any of recent vintage because I rarely watch TV anymore:

The Cosby Show (1984 - 1992)
Good Times (father portrayed by John Amos)
Growing Pains
Andy Griffith
__________________
Enter these enchanted woods, You who dare. ~ George Meredith
Enchantment is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2011, 09:21 AM   #71 (permalink)
Member
 
Therealbrighteyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,647
Default Re: Feminism....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.rightaway View Post
IanIronwood, your post (#16) is one of the most accurate, in-depth explanations of what has gone on that I have read to date.

I could not agree more. It is actually rather unfortunate, but as a successful male myself, there is absolutely no incentive at all to be with a woman. So even if a modern man has a vast amount of great qualities (character, integrity and so on) and would prefer lifelong marriage, partnership, kids and the white picket fence, why in the world would he knowingly throw away all control of his future to be with a woman when he has no protection whatsoever in this day and age? The choice then is that many men are choosing to stay single or, as you have stated, avoid marriage altogether and accept the fate of in-and-out, baseless relationships. For at any time if the woman isn't happy, she can just leave or cause all kinds of trouble due to "protections" via the court and family law system. And even if she wanted to be a housewife, that is also no longer desirable because men have come to expect that they no longer need to fill the role of provider and will expect a woman to have something going for herself. The mistake I see women today make is that they seem to believe men don't know all of this and they think they have all the power, when in fact, any man who has any control of himself is making the decision to not only avoid marriage, but avoid the female altogether due to the massive risk and rapidly decreasing reward. The pendulum is slowly starting to swing back but I'm not sure where it has anywhere to go, because the feminism cat is already out of the bag. Society in its totality is NOT better off.

"Leave it to Beaver" (1957 - 1963)
"Happily Divorced" (2011 - Present)

Pathetic.
Women are choosing to remain single in droves too. What incentive does she have to marry? None.
Therealbrighteyes is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2011, 09:25 AM   #72 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: In an igloo.
Posts: 2,004
Default Re: Feminism....

I certainly understand so called feminists, who want equal pay, yet expect men to pay for dates.

How about the "feminists" who get angry when men do not want to give up seats on public transit?

My incentive to get married was hopefully spending my life, with a man that respects and cherishes me. It was about building a life with another human being and enjoying working together. I wanted both of us to take care of each other in different ways.

I have noticed that even high powered career women get very lonely, when they are unmarried past a certain age. Men and women still need each other and nothing will change that.

Last edited by FirstYearDown; 10-12-2011 at 09:36 AM.
FirstYearDown is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2011, 09:34 AM   #73 (permalink)
Member
 
Therealbrighteyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,647
Default Re: Feminism....

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFEH View Post
Totally agree. In the UK it’s a massive problem, over a million households without a man in them. Mothers with 3, 4 or 5 children from different fathers and all living off the state. Slum estates where little hooligans literally terrorise householders. There’s not the firm hand of the father, the tough love with the sons, or the ever watchful eye over his daughters. So they all feel free to do what they will, just like feral kids. And they do. And they get away with it to such an extent that thousands of them go smashing and looting on the streets in our cities. And finally the law gets tough and the strong firm hand of Man comes down. But it’s too late for the majority of those kiddies, their fate and destiny is already set.
So feminism is the cause of this? Or could it possibly be that 1 million fathers bailed on their children. Let's put the blame where it should belong, okay?

Last edited by Therealbrighteyes; 10-12-2011 at 09:56 AM.
Therealbrighteyes is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2011, 09:35 AM   #74 (permalink)
Member
 
Therealbrighteyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,647
Default Re: Feminism....

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstYearDown View Post
I certainly understand so called feminists, who want equal pay, yet expect men to pay for dates.

How about the "feminists" who get angry when men do not want to give up seats on public transit?
Those aren't feminists. Can't have it both ways. My point being as with what I mentioned in the beginning of my post, is that there are a lot of women running around acting a certain way and claiming they are feminists. They aren't. They don't have a clue what it means to be one.
Therealbrighteyes is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2011, 09:38 AM   #75 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: In an igloo.
Posts: 2,004
Default Re: Feminism....

If you agree with what I wrote, why did you say that I did not understand feminism?
FirstYearDown is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Feminism: Has it gone too far? Gratitude General Relationship Discussion 255 09-09-2012 06:47 PM
Another Feminism Thread! FirstYearDown General Relationship Discussion 34 01-22-2012 11:42 AM
Awesome podcast on feminism Scannerguard The Ladies' Lounge 114 04-08-2011 02:56 PM

Member Area

Find a Therapist:


Sponsor Ads


Sponsor Ads




Get The Family & Marriage Counseling Directory Help Guide via Email:
Name:
Email:




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:45 AM.



Copyright 2007 - 2013 © Talk About Marriage

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.