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post #46 of 362 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 01:18 PM
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Re: Again and again and again...

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Originally Posted by Duguesclin View Post
If citizens carry guns, how do the police make the difference between good guys and bad guys?
Well they might not be able to. (How do they tell bad guys from good guys with plain clothes cops?) But a lot crucial time can elapse between when some psycho starts killing and when cops can arrive.

I don't know about France, but in the US, many mass shootings have been thwarted by citizens with guns who just happened to be there.

I'm not saying this is right for France. That's their business. It's just something I was mulling over last night when I was thinking about how easy it is for a terrorist to take on a soft target and wondering what, if anything, can be done about it.

If you're going to have free, open societies, you're going to have soft targets, and multiple ways someone can attack them. Police can't be everywhere all the time.

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post #47 of 362 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 01:27 PM
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Re: Again and again and again...

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If you're going to have free, open societies, you're going to have soft targets, and multiple ways someone can attack them. Police can't be everywhere all the time.
There's the rub. The very notion that we can do away with terrorism completely in a free society is unrealistic. Guns are arguably good protection against certain kinds of 1-on-1 crime, but utterly useless against an angry man with a truck full of ammonium nitrate.

I'll gladly trade the small threat of death by that means to living in the society required to remove it completely.
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post #48 of 362 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 01:58 PM
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Re: Again and again and again...

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There's the rub. The very notion that we can do away with terrorism completely in a free society is unrealistic. Guns are arguably good protection against certain kinds of 1-on-1 crime, but utterly useless against an angry man with a truck full of ammonium nitrate.

I'll gladly trade the small threat of death by that means to living in the society required to remove it completely.
Yep.

I do think we can do things to reduce the threat though.

Like more serious immigration laws and enforcement, and going after terrorist strong holds like ISIS. Stopping the political correctness that *****-foots around the real issue. Better cultural warfare to address whatever it is that makes terrorism compelling to some. Apparently this guy was born and raised in France. What is going on that some people born in France and the USA are gravitating to a cause like terrorism against their own country? Is there anything we can do to counter that?
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post #49 of 362 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 02:04 PM
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Re: Again and again and again...

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It reported that is was a government vehicle on Sky News last night.
Nothing about it today??
It sounds like he used to be a delivery driver and maybe the truck was his?

?He drank alcohol, ate pork? and took drugs. He was NOT a Muslim?: Truck terrorist Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel?s cousin reveals he is an ?unlikely jihadist? who beat his wife and NEVER went to mosque* | Daily Mail Online
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post #50 of 362 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 02:17 PM
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Re: Again and again and again...

Given the propensity of every thread with even a tangential reference to projectiles to become a call to arms, a gun in every hand seems to be the solution to all of the worlds problems.

There has got to be something wrong with a collective psyche so fear driven that it feel safe behind a gun only. When everyone has a gun, then what? Do you think that this crazy man would have been shot full of holes by gun toting citizens before he had a chance to mow them down?

This discussion would have been more appropriate for the Dallas thread, no? A crazy man on foot is a better target than one in a bomb laden moving target.

If a bunch of the BLM demonstrators had license's to carry, would those 5 brave men still be alive? In fact, why did no one suggest this solution in that Dallas situation? It is far more likely that if BLM citizens had legal guns they might have been able to successfully engage the Dallas madman, don't you think? You know man on foot vs man in a speeding truck.

Maybe it not such a bad idea to push this gun agenda at every turn. You are maybe picturing men in Boise Idaho openly and legally toting rifles, hand guns and semi automatics but not men in Brooklyn NY, Dallas TX, and Detroit MI? The sight of "them" with legal shouldered rifles and holstered guns walking around will scare the sh!t out of people.

When no contrivance is found to restrict 2nd Amendments rights to certain demographics, the age of gun control for all will, of necessity, dawn.

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Last edited by Catherine602; 07-15-2016 at 05:51 PM.
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post #51 of 362 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 02:42 PM
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Re: Again and again and again...

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Originally Posted by WorkingWife View Post
Yep.

I do think we can do things to reduce the threat though.

Like more serious immigration laws and enforcement, and going after terrorist strong holds like ISIS. Stopping the political correctness that *****-foots around the real issue. Better cultural warfare to address whatever it is that makes terrorism compelling to some. Apparently this guy was born and raised in France. What is going on that some people born in France and the USA are gravitating to a cause like terrorism against their own country? Is there anything we can do to counter that?
They do not view the country in which they were born to be important. Instead, they are only loyal to Islam. They don’t want to live under the laws of the western country in which they were born or be governed by non-Muslims. They want Sharia and for Islam/Sharia to be the rulers and the law.
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post #52 of 362 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 03:10 PM
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Re: Again and again and again...

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They want Sharia and for Islam/Sharia to be the rulers and the law.
I wonder what sharia law says about porn. My understanding is that most of these guys have scads of it on their computers.

Probably something like it's okay for men to look at it, but that any women involved must be burned alive.
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post #53 of 362 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 03:33 PM
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Re: Again and again and again...

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I wonder what sharia law says about porn. My understanding is that most of these guys have scads of it on their computers.

Probably something like it's okay for men to look at it, but that any women involved must be burned alive.
The punishment for fornication/adultery is stoning. Not burning to death.

And yes, women are far more likely to be punished than men.
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post #54 of 362 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 04:24 PM
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Re: Again and again and again...

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What is going on that some people born in France and the USA are gravitating to a cause like terrorism against their own country? Is there anything we can do to counter that?
I believe that Muslims are poorly integrated in European countries. Probably due to an overly sensitive desire not to impinge on the culture of their place of origin.

The end result is that children of immigrants don't identify with their country of birth. Especially if they are at an economic disadvantage which, perversely, is more likely if a people are not integrated into the the local culture.

Oddly enough, by comparison, the US does a much better job of this (not good enough).
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post #55 of 362 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 04:31 PM
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Re: Again and again and again...

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aybe it not such a bad idea to push this gun agenda at every turn. You are maybe picturing men in Boise Idaho openly and legally toting rifles, hand guns and semi automatics but not men in Brooklyn NY, Dallas TX, and Detroit MI? The sight of "them" with legal shouldered rifles and holstered guns walking around will scare the sh!t out of people.

When no contrivance is found to restrict 2nd Amendments rights to certain demographics, the age of gun control for all will, of necessity, dawn.
I'm not aware of any laws that restrict THEM from from doing the exact same things that NOT THEM do.

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post #56 of 362 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 05:31 PM
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Re: Again and again and again...

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Given the propensity of every thread with even a tangential reference to projectiles to become a call to arms, a gun in every hand seems to be the solution to all of the worlds problems.

There has got to be something wrong with a collective psyche so fear driven that they feel safe only when they are behind a gun.
Why do you think that people who believe they are safer with an open carry society are fear driven and only feel safe when they have a gun?

I am not fear driven, yet I wear a seat belt every time I get in a car because I believe it makes me safer in case something happens.

I am not fear driven, yet I exercise, take some vitamins, and try to eat well because I believe it increases my odds at longevity.

I am not fear driven, yet I lock my doors at night (and have a gun in my home).

Could someone with a gun have stopped this particular driver? It's not likely but it is possible. The details of this situation aside, there are many situations where you are safer if you, or others around you are carrying a gun. Even the perception that people might be armed has been shown to deter violent crime.

As for the BLM incident - yes, I believe the five assassinated cops would have been safer if people in the protest had been lawfully armed. You don't think that most of the BLM protesters would stand there and let someone start assassinating cops if they had been armed themselves, do you?
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post #57 of 362 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 05:47 PM
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Re: Again and again and again...

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It sure is a good thing that France has strict gun laws. At least that way they can ensure that there are no mass murders… oh, wait… (*scratches head*)
I know you weren't serious, but of course the opposite is true. If France did not have strict victim disarmament laws, someone on the street might have been able to disable the truck before the driver was able to kill all those people.

This is another example of the rule that the number of casualties is proportional to how long it takes for the "good guy with the gun" to show up. The police can't be everywhere, but the public can.

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post #58 of 362 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 05:50 PM
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Re: Again and again and again...

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Yeah, I don't if anyone could react fast enough to stop anything while he was mowing down people with the truck. But I also heard he had guns and grenades (also suggested in the "Inspire" terrorist magazine article) and when the driving rampage stopped he either did or tried to fire into the crowd.

Of course, even in TX and LA where they have a lot of gun owners, I doubt people are walking along the beach with a gun.
Maybe they will start now.

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post #59 of 362 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 05:53 PM
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Re: Again and again and again...

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I'm not aware of any laws that restrict THEM from from doing the exact same things that NOT THEM do.
not yet.

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post #60 of 362 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 06:22 PM
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Re: Again and again and again...

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Originally Posted by WorkingWife View Post

Could someone with a gun have stopped this particular driver? It's not likely but it is possible. The details of this situation aside, there are many situations where you are safer if you, or others around you are carrying a gun. Even the perception that people might be armed has been shown to deter violent crime.

As for the BLM incident - yes, I believe the five assassinated cops would have been safer if people in the protest had been lawfully armed. You don't think that most of the BLM protesters would stand there and let someone start assassinating cops if they had been armed themselves, do you?
Actually, people with guns did stop the driver in France. Ditto at the BLM event in Dallas. As is almost universally the case, the mass murderers continue their mayhem until confronted by armed opposition. In many cases these armed resistors are private citizens. Sometimes they are armed police officers.

When an attack is underway, nobody calls for someone to show up with pizza. Nobody asks the police to leave their AR rifles behind or to only have limited capacity magazines in their weapons.

Victims beg for effective armaments to stop the killing as quickly as possible. Parents would, literally, sell their souls to the Devil if a firearm were given to them to defend their child from the killer while waiting for police to arrive.

No tool is 100% guaranteed to work in every situation, but being there with no tool when a killer is targeting you is 100% guaranteed to leave you dead.
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