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post #136 of 171 (permalink) Old 11-08-2016, 04:19 PM
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Re: Who will win?

No idea who will win. These were interesting and I thought this thread would be a good place to share the news. There were many reports, but most were from folks who heard from someone who heard it from someone. These few are legitimate issues, it seems.

One thing I was disappointed about. I heard on the radio this morning that we would be given a coupon for a free Krispy Kreme donut redeemable at one of their stores. There was a choice between that coupon and another which offered something small for free. Can't remember that other one. I mentioned this when I went in to vote.

I voted and didn't get a dang thing. I stood there after voting for a second. The helper asked if everything was okay. I said, "I was just waiting for my donut coupon to print out." She laughed.





Quote:
Submitted by Michael Krieger:
While*not unexpected, this appears to be the first confirmed issue with voting machines so far today. It happened in*Pennsylvania.
CBS News reports:
There have been some scattered issues where voters are encountering problems.
Election judges in Clinton Township, Butler County confirmed there were issues with two of their eight automated voting machines. Most of the issues came when people tried to vote straight party ticket.
However, other said they specifically wanted to vote for Republican Donald Trump only to see their vote switched before their eyes to Democrat Hillary Clinton.
“I went back, pressed Trump again. Three times I did this, so then I called one of the women that were working the polls over. And she said you must be doing it wrong. She did it three times and it defaulted to Hillary every time,” Bobbie Lee Hawranko said.
Officials have recalibrated the machines and are confident that the problem has been resolved.
Allegheny County has also been dealing with some Election Day issues.
Rigged: Trump Votes Changed to Clinton in Pennsylvania | Breaking CBS News Report | Silver Doctors
Quote:
Luzerne County officials have enlisted the help of federal investigators to handle reports of vote flipping on machines in various municipalities.
District Attorney Stefanie Salavantis said she is responding to complaints about machines in Butler Township, Avoca and Jenkins Township where a voter cast an electronic vote for one candidate but the machine registered a vote for the opponent.
Luzerne County DA alerts FBI to vote-flip issues - News - Standard Speaker



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post #137 of 171 (permalink) Old 11-08-2016, 05:05 PM
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Re: Who will win?

Voter intimidation.

No action taken after voters allege intimidation in Rockville | WUSA9.com

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post #138 of 171 (permalink) Old 11-08-2016, 05:15 PM
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Re: Who will win?

More on the voting machines switching votes.

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In Allegheny County, officials said they heard reports about machines not recording vote choices, so they sent experts to examine those machines:
“In each of those cases, there has been no evidence that the machines are working incorrectly. *This includes reports in Robinson, West Deer, Hampton, and Sewickley Hills…In every election there are machines that need to be re-calibrated following transport. *So far today, we have reset three machines — one each in Upper St. Clair, Monroeville, and West Mifflin. *This is in line with what we see in each election.”

Some Trump Voters Reporting Ballots Switching To Clinton « CBS Pittsburgh

Sorry, I didn't know computers needed calibrated to get that software to perform as it was designed. I can see where they might not take any votes or bring up the software. I just can't imagine them having to be "calibrated" so they will not switch votes. That seem extremely bogus to me. It also seems confirmed by officials that this happens in all elections. I don't understand computer software as well as many others here, so I'm reluctant to agree or disagree with these reports.

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"And this, too, shall pass away."

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post #139 of 171 (permalink) Old 11-08-2016, 05:59 PM
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Re: Who will win?

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Sorry, I didn't know computers needed calibrated to get that software to perform as it was designed. I can see where they might not take any votes or bring up the software. I just can't imagine them having to be "calibrated" so they will not switch votes. That seem extremely bogus to me. It also seems confirmed by officials that this happens in all elections. I don't understand computer software as well as many others here, so I'm reluctant to agree or disagree with these reports.
It's not the software. These are old machines with touchscreens that get less accurate with time.
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post #140 of 171 (permalink) Old 11-08-2016, 06:02 PM
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Re: Who will win?

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Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
Sorry, I didn't know computers needed calibrated to get that software to perform as it was designed. I can see where they might not take any votes or bring up the software. I just can't imagine them having to be "calibrated" so they will not switch votes. That seem extremely bogus to me. It also seems confirmed by officials that this happens in all elections. I don't understand computer software as well as many others here, so I'm reluctant to agree or disagree with these reports.
Have you ever owned an old Palm Pilot in your life?

The first thing you do after a hard reset is to recalibrate the touch screen for accuracy. Every single time. Once in a while, you had to do it just out of spite.

No, software (with the exception of AI) does not require "calibration".
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post #141 of 171 (permalink) Old 11-08-2016, 06:20 PM
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Re: Who will win?

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Have you ever owned an old Palm Pilot in your life?

The first thing you do after a hard reset is to recalibrate the touch screen for accuracy. Every single time. Once in a while, you had to do it just out of spite.

No, software (with the exception of AI) does not require "calibration".
Mostly for older technology resistive touch screens... Modern ones are capacitative based and generally require no calibration.
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post #142 of 171 (permalink) Old 11-08-2016, 06:21 PM
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Re: Who will win?

Agreed. No, I didn't know that. I've never had one of those and don't know what it is. I am a less sophisticated user with little touch screen experience or knowledge as reported in the article below.



Quote:
So when a voter touches a button on the touchscreen, the poorly calibrated touchscreen might register it as a touch on the button next to it.
It’s also possible that a poorly designed user interface confused less technologically sophisticated users. In some cases, voting officials have been able to duplicate and fix problems with voting machines. In other cases, they’ve been unable to reproduce the problem, making it difficult to tell if the machine or the voter was at fault.


So it’s extremely unlikely that the reports of vote flipping in Pennsylvania or elsewhere are evidence of foul play. Still, the persistence of these reports points to a major disadvantage of our increasingly complex voting technology.
Building public confidence in the accuracy of an election is almost as important as the accuracy of the election itself. Electronic voting machines are complex, and that complexity makes malfunctions and public misunderstandings more likely. And voting glitches that sound potentially sinister damage public confidence in elections, even if they ultimately turn out to have a completely benign explanation.

There's a simple explanation for reports of "vote flipping" machines in Pennsylvania - Vox

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post #143 of 171 (permalink) Old 11-08-2016, 06:30 PM
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Re: Who will win?

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Mostly for older technology resistive touch screens... Modern ones are capacitative based and generally require no calibration.
The Palm Pilot being of the older technology variety...
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post #144 of 171 (permalink) Old 11-08-2016, 06:32 PM
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Re: Who will win?

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So it’s extremely unlikely that the reports of vote flipping in Pennsylvania or elsewhere are evidence of foul play. Still, the persistence of these reports points to a major disadvantage of our increasingly complex voting technology.
I'd be inclined to agree with you if I hadn't learned the term "hanging chad" in the 2000 election. Or the Butterfly Ballot effect in the same year.

There will always be some portion of the populace that gets confused by anything more complicated than poking the "Like" button.
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post #145 of 171 (permalink) Old 11-08-2016, 06:38 PM
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Re: Who will win?

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I'd be inclined to agree with you if I hadn't learned the term "hanging chad" in the 2000 election. Or the Butterfly Ballot effect in the same year.

There will always be some portion of the populace that gets confused by anything more complicated than poking the "Like" button.
I just wrote the first paragraph in those posts. I didn't write what you quoted here. That's from the article.

Sorry, I really need to be more careful. Actually, I liked the old machines that were heavy and mechanical, though I imagine those could be tampered with, as well. I suppose it would be tougher to get away with, though?

I agree with your assessment of the hanging chad issue. The only thing is, I blame it on the voters and believe they should have been sent a new ballot to check off their choices in ink, and sign, rather than trying to discern whether or not those hanging were votes or mistakes. I guess they didn't have the name of the voter or their address on those paper ballots? I don't know.


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post #146 of 171 (permalink) Old 11-08-2016, 06:50 PM
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Re: Who will win?

You know...we don't want the voting process to be so complicated it confuses those less computer literate. Do we? Plus, how is it that the government has not updated those machines to capacitive touch screens? They spend lots on other things.

Also, we just started using them in my area, maybe ten years ago....if that long. It was after 2005, I believe. I was involved with two or three elections in a few positions, including Judge of Election at my peak. I guess they didn't come out with those capacitive screens until then? Or maybe Pennsylvania purchased used machines? Maybe that's an even bigger issue that causes fear and mistrust in potential registered voters?

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post #147 of 171 (permalink) Old 11-08-2016, 06:55 PM
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Re: Who will win?

The People Who Pick the President: Meet the Electoral College - POLITICO Magazine


I guess we won't know "Who will win?" until the Electoral College decides.
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post #148 of 171 (permalink) Old 11-08-2016, 07:01 PM
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Re: Who will win?

If polling places close at 8 pm, is it lawful for those standing in line by then to stay and vote after 8 pm? How could anyone tell who was in line and who wasn't, before or by 8 pm?

Also, does anyone see an issue with a church being a polling place? I do, and I believe in God. Is it legal? Why is it legal, if so, and there is a supposed separation between church and state? Should those votes be discounted and the machines moved to another location where those same voters could recast their selections?

There is one in my area that has voting machines stored there. It or another is also a polling place. Seems odd to me.

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post #149 of 171 (permalink) Old 11-08-2016, 07:06 PM
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Re: Who will win?

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Also, does anyone see an issue with a church being a polling place? I do, and I believe in God. Is it legal? Why is it legal, if so, and there is a supposed separation between church and state? Should those votes be discounted and the machines moved to another location where those same voters could recast their selections?

There is one in my area that has voting machines stored there. It or another is also a polling place. Seems odd to me.


In that respect the church is just a building. There aren't any worship services going on at the time of voting; so there isn't any mixture of religious doctrine and politics.
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post #150 of 171 (permalink) Old 11-08-2016, 07:09 PM
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Re: Who will win?

I guess it isn't a concern for the well-liked candidate.


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Since the first U.S. presidential election in 1788, the Electoral College system has delivered “the people’s choice” in 51 of 55 contests, but on four occasions the Electoral College gave controversial results. Three of these elections, 1876, 1888, and 2000, produced a president and vice president who won a majority of the electoral vote but fewer popular votes than their principal opponents. In 1824, there was no Electoral College majority, and the House of Representatives elected the president.When the Electoral Vote and the Popular Vote Differ | IIP Digital

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