Was this an anti-woman anti-foreigner vote? - Page 26 - Talk About Marriage
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post #376 of 701 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 03:01 PM
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Re: Was this an anti-woman anti-foreigner vote?

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To argue that Trump is not anti-woman and anti-foreigner is to overlook a whole history of behavior, and a list of his explicit policies. To pretend that his anti-woman and anti-foreigner stance is just a few simple "slips of the tongue" is IMHO either completely disingenuous or something that one simply doesn't see because they share those assumptions and POV.
I have not seen any such things, so why doesn't somebody, anybody, provide videos or legitimate other sources?

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post #377 of 701 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 03:13 PM
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Re: Was this an anti-woman anti-foreigner vote?

And now a few things from Hillary...

WHOA! Hillary Caught On Hot Mic Trashing Beyonce? With RACIAL SLURS! ? The Resistance: The Last Line of Defense

Quote:
“I’m grateful, but do we really need to listen to this ghetto trash music? Doesn’t she have something a little less…negro?”
Top Ten Examples Of Hillary Clinton?s Racism The Media Chooses To Ignore

https://youtu.be/Ht_pAO4TXH0

Hillary Clinton, Racist: Top 5 Worst Comments (in Public)

http://www.wnd.com/2016/05/hillary-h...s-out-of-here/

https://youtu.be/WmLtypdBvKw

Betcha didn't say any of that in the mainstream media.
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post #378 of 701 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 03:43 PM
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Re: Was this an anti-woman anti-foreigner vote?

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So let me get this straight then. Trump's personality is an important factor to you. Trump's abrasive and jerky manner is important to you. His cut throat business dealings matter to you. His locker room talk matters to you. The fact he's been involved in various disputes in his business dealings matters to you.

Character matters to you.

But not if it is Hillary.
First of all, I did not say I was a Hillary supporter, or that she should be excused for any wrong doings that she's committed.

Second of all, while yes, character does matter to me, the problem with Trump goes far beyond "locker room talk" or being "brash".

That he is racist? Look at what he has said, his endless stream of comments putting down various races and religions. His history of discriminating against black people as both a landlord and an employer. His policies, from building the wall, to forcing registration of Muslims. There is a very good reason why white supremacist groups backed him throughout his campaign. (And note that Trump did not disavow this support, but encouraged it, and even named one as a delegate.)

That he is sexist? This is not based on a single comment on a stupid tape. Look at how he talks about women, his wife, his daughter. His fat shaming of a beauty pageant contestant. What women say about how he talks to them. How he treats them. He has a long track record of completely blatant sexism.

As for cutthroat business practices? The man's gone bankrupt multiple times, and has ripped off investors and contractors left right and center. It's a wonder anyone does business with him any more. It isn't just that he's ruthless and cares about no-one but his own self (which would be bad enough for a country), it's that he is incompetent. He started wealthy, lost tons of money, got bailed out by Daddy, and lost tons more money. Maybe he had some fleeting moments where his profits seemed high, but mostly he was just lying about his numbers, reporting gross instead of net, and the like.

Hardly what I'd call savvy business practices.
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post #379 of 701 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 03:51 PM
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Re: Was this an anti-woman anti-foreigner vote?

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50,000 isn't very much at all, particularly for a household. No doubt. But those under that marker were much more likely to favor Clinton. Those at the 100,000 and above favored Trump (although not by a lot, and as we're seeing, Clinton actually does take the popular vote.)

Not sure about the Rust Belt, but can say that most Trump supporters are also white. Which I find quite unsurprising.
Clinton has been ahead so far in the reported popular vote. Not all votes have been counted. There are hundreds of thousands of uncounted votes. Most of them are US military which usually votes very heavily Republican. I've seen some articles to day saying that Trump is now ahead of Hillary in the popular votes as the states are correcting their numbers. It will be days before the final tally is announce. They might never count the military absentee votes since Trump has so many electoral votes, they feel it's not worth the effort.

Stats are a funny thing. You got to know what you are looking at.

Trump got 49% of white voters with college degrees.
He got 67% of white voters with no college degree. --- Something like 75% or more of the US adult population does not have a college degree.

He and Clinton pretty evening split the voters who earned over 50K. Those who earn over 100K make up only 10% of all American adults. So that's a relatively small block of voters.


Who voted for Donald Trump? Mostly white men and women, voting data reveals | The Independent
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post #380 of 701 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 03:52 PM
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post #381 of 701 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 04:10 PM
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Re: Was this an anti-woman anti-foreigner vote?

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It's not.

Former President Bush was an ideologue - but eventually he saw the light and joined the liberal elite. President Elect Trump is an opportunist, so less chance of ideology getting on the way.
When did the bolded happen?

I must have missed it.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #382 of 701 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 04:29 PM
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Re: Was this an anti-woman anti-foreigner vote?

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First of all, I did not say I was a Hillary supporter, or that she should be excused for any wrong doings that she's committed.

Second of all, while yes, character does matter to me, the problem with Trump goes far beyond "locker room talk" or being "brash".

That he is racist? Look at what he has said, his endless stream of comments putting down various races and religions. His history of discriminating against black people as both a landlord and an employer. His policies, from building the wall, to forcing registration of Muslims. There is a very good reason why white supremacist groups backed him throughout his campaign. (And note that Trump did not disavow this support, but encouraged it, and even named one as a delegate.)

That he is sexist? This is not based on a single comment on a stupid tape. Look at how he talks about women, his wife, his daughter. His fat shaming of a beauty pageant contestant. What women say about how he talks to them. How he treats them. He has a long track record of completely blatant sexism.

As for cutthroat business practices? The man's gone bankrupt multiple times, and has ripped off investors and contractors left right and center. It's a wonder anyone does business with him any more. It isn't just that he's ruthless and cares about no-one but his own self (which would be bad enough for a country), it's that he is incompetent. He started wealthy, lost tons of money, got bailed out by Daddy, and lost tons more money. Maybe he had some fleeting moments where his profits seemed high, but mostly he was just lying about his numbers, reporting gross instead of net, and the like.

Hardly what I'd call savvy business practices.
Sigh! It's funny how things that seem so obvious to some of us are just not seen by others. The propaganda machine is alive and well, and I think it's difficult for people to distinguish truth from fiction. For example, people that believe the economy has gotten worse over the last eight years when all the data shows the opposite is true. Do they even remember the recession and housing crash under Bush?

Trump's history of racist behaviour is an open record as you have mentioned, not to mention his constant re-tweeting of white supremacists and tweeting of false statistics on minority groups that have their origin in neo-nazi websites. His campaign lead was the former head of Breitbart news for crying out loud - an organization that does not hide the fact that it is the "voice of the alt-right." Now, I actually respect (yes, wait till I make my point) the white nationalist, KKK and other supremacist groups that have come out in support of Trump - because they are open about their agenda. They don't pretend to care about equality, tolerance etc. They have an agenda of their own and it's good that we now know just how many of them are out there. It's people who want to argue that Trump's behaviour isn't racist when it is that I find problematic. I think the most people could argue is that: "yes, he is a racist, and sexist but those are not issues that are priorities to me." Of course, I find that deeply disturbing and scary for our society but people are all entitled to their own beliefs (just not their own facts).

The thing though is that people need to justify their own racist behaviour/attitudes (no one wants to think they are a bad person) hence there always has to be some kind of rationalizing of why you dislike or despise a certain group. Remember comments from Trump like "People tell me that I am the least racist person they know." Who has conversations like that? This is also a man who said on a debate stage that one of the things that showed how committed he is to equality is that he allowed people of all backgrounds into one of his establishments? This is 2016 not 1950.

Another morally repugnant thing to me was bragging about not paying taxes. I actually believe paying your fair share of taxes is a moral obligation that we all have to contribute to a functioning society. Believe it or not, I don't try to be "smart" by cheating on my taxes and I would never teach my kids that that was a smart or virtuous thing to do. I am happy to contribute to roads, bridges, public service, and yes - programs that that help kids in poverty to get out of it & I would like a leader that believes the same thing.

Finally, when someone offers simple solutions to complicated problems it worries me that they have no clue what they are doing and are lying to people. It's really, really, really, sad that a lot of people have been left behind in today's economy but these issues are not because "Trade deals are bad and our government doesn't know how to negotiate and Trump is the only one who can fix it" Please. Can you undo all the technologies that took away so many manufacturing jobs? People around the world lost jobs to technology not just Americans. One of the solutions is to actually educate and train people for the new jobs that are becoming available - (e.g., they can fix, repair, program machines). Yet the same people want to gut education funding and promote anti-scientific approaches in classrooms. If you aren't pushing for more education and want to remain militantly ignorant - then you are going to be left behind. For example, if you are a climate change denier, you aren't going to be training folk for the new jobs coming up in alternative energy industry.

As a capitalist, why do you think you are entitled to have jobs stay in your country versus have the company move to give jobs to citizens of other countries who have the same/better skills and can do it cheaper? Trump himself broke the law to use Chinese steel instead of US steel for his construction because it was cheaper. Many of his products (and his daughter's company's products) are made in China because it is cheaper and allows them greater profit. But somehow this is the guy working class people think will save them? At least Bernie was open that he is a socialist - because capitalism puts profit first ahead of people. Of course, socialism is a dirty, dirty, word in America.

I get economic frustration and anti-establishment feelings but this feels like biting off your nose to spite your face. Of course, Trump is now busy appointing all sorts of track-record lobbyists and shady crooks and climate-change deniers to run his government.

Anyway, just my two cents - so so so sad that the world is so badly divided that we can't even agree on the facts - and work together to fix things - because ultimately, we all have a lot of the same problems and are pissed about a lot of the same things. It's just who we choose to blame for them, that's different.
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post #383 of 701 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 05:35 PM
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Re: Was this an anti-woman anti-foreigner vote?

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When did the bolded happen?

I must have missed it.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.forbe...-conservative/

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politic...liberal/944806
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post #384 of 701 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 05:44 PM
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Re: Was this an anti-woman anti-foreigner vote?

I could not see the first one due to ad blocker. The second was not convincing. I just do not see much evolution in him at all, much less some sort of evolution to a liberal.

The only possible thing might be the bailout of the financial industry. But even there he did not nationalize the banks, and did not hold them legally accountable. He just had Paulson stop the hemorrhaging, and bail out his friends.

And Obama and Clinton were certainly not liberals (or is progressive the better term?) in those respects, either.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #385 of 701 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 05:51 PM
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Re: Was this an anti-woman anti-foreigner vote?

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If you cannot pay your bills, how much do you care about a candidate's sensibilities?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure everyone in 1936 Germany told themselves the same thing.

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post #386 of 701 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 05:56 PM
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Re: Was this an anti-woman anti-foreigner vote?

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Yeah, I'm pretty sure everyone in 1936 Germany told themselves the same thing.
Yes, there have been parallels made to pre-fascist times in other countries. I think you meant 1933, though, no?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #387 of 701 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 06:00 PM
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Re: Was this an anti-woman anti-foreigner vote?

If spending is what determine a conservative, they must be in museums. I have yet to see a republican president reining in spending.

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post #388 of 701 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 06:02 PM
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Re: Was this an anti-woman anti-foreigner vote?

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Yes, there have been parallels made to pre-fascist times in other countries. I think you meant 1933, though, no?
Likely. Thinking about all of this is mentally taxing, honestly.

Just because I don't like Trump doesn't mean I did like Clinton. I think they are both terrible people for different reasons. But that's the joy and sorrow of our two-party system, if you have two turd sandwiches, choosing not to eat you are still force-fed one.
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post #389 of 701 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 06:11 PM
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Re: Was this an anti-woman anti-foreigner vote?

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Likely. Thinking about all of this is mentally taxing, honestly.

Just because I don't like Trump doesn't mean I did like Clinton. I think they are both terrible people for different reasons. But that's the joy and sorrow of our two-party system, if you have two turd sandwiches, choosing not to eat you are still force-fed one.
I did not like her, either. But I thought her the saner and wiser of the two.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #390 of 701 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 06:11 PM
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Re: Was this an anti-woman anti-foreigner vote?

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I could not see the first one due to ad blocker. The second was not convincing. I just do not see much evolution in him at all, much less some sort of evolution to a liberal.

The only possible thing might be the bailout of the financial industry. But even there he did not nationalize the banks, and did not hold them legally accountable. He just had Paulson stop the hemorrhaging, and bail out his friends.

And Obama and Clinton were certainly not liberals (or is progressive the better term?) in those respects, either.
The Medicare drug benefit was pretty much the mother of all handouts...
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