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post #61 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
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Re: why

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I think she should be able to stop in every state in the Union to get gas and go to the bathroom without fear because of the color of her skin.

I was shocked when my daughter told me this story. It is something that I would never have thought of.
I agree with @ButtPunch, irrational fear.

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post #62 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 11:56 AM
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Re: why

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I agree with @ButtPunch, irrational fear.
True, but then you can win an election on that.
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post #63 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 12:02 PM
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Re: why

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True, but then you can win an election on that.
Hillary tried.
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post #64 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 12:07 PM
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Re: why

Back to the point of why!

Have any of you figured out why there were so many Trump supporters that stayed quiet until they got to the voting booth?

This is why so many polling and media experts were wrong about this election.

On the news this morning was a man who owned a tattoo parlor. He was offering a free "Make America Great Again" tattoo to anyone who wanted one. He planned to make the same offer for a "Together Again" Tattoo if Hillary had won. The threats and nasty calls he received could not be repeated on TV. The owner of a company a relative works at made an off hand support for Trump comment, not even an official endorsement, a boycott ensued, my relative is handling the calls from the protesters. He said he has never heard such hatred in his life.

Boston public schools are offering post election counseling for students today. Gee that has never happened before. Just how many school kids can even vote. The counseling should have been for the ballot question that lost to expand charter schools. MA has 32,000 students on the waiting lists for charter schools, guess who led the effort to squash it? The teachers unions! and who do they support? democrats.

As far as protesting to to being oppressed, did you take a look at the protesters? Seems to me a lot of young people from many different races were there including white kids. The notion that these kids were out there due to feelings of oppression is just ridiculous. Today's youth have more free stuff available to them than ever before with the exception of good jobs of course.
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post #65 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 12:07 PM
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Re: why

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I agree with @ButtPunch, irrational fear.
Dave. Come on. You are a white guy, no? How would you know what rational or irrational fear means for an African-American?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #66 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 12:10 PM
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Re: why

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Originally Posted by Always Learning View Post
Back to the point of why!

Have any of you figured out why there were so many Trump supporters that stayed quiet until they got to the voting booth?

This is why so many polling and media experts were wrong about this election.
They were scared to speak their truth. They did not want to be called ignorant or some kind of -ist.

PC is not working. People need to be able to speak their truth, and, ideally, be open to at least considering a different view of things.

We are not going to heal divisions if people cannot even say what they think.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #67 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 12:13 PM
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Re: why

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Originally Posted by Always Learning View Post
Back to the point of why!

Have any of you figured out why there were so many Trump supporters that stayed quiet until they got to the voting booth?

This is why so many polling and media experts were wrong about this election.
I disagree.

Trump received almost 2 million less votes than Romney. That sounds like the base voting for Trump regardless of anything. If it's red, I'm voting for it.

Hillary received almost 6 millions less votes than Obama. That sounds like a mandate from the democrats, not one from the Republicans.

There are two separate things working here. Hillary losing and Trump winning. Hillary's loss is on her. Trump's win is on the democrats who didn't vote for her (or at all).
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post #68 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 12:21 PM
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Re: why

According to New Gingrich people don't feel safe.

It doesn't matter that statistically they are safer in many areas, it only matters that they don't feel safe.

I watched him try to defend this while defending trump's anti immigrant rhetoric

So apparently feelings do equal reality in the right's world. But it's not limited to them.

This is a political tool both sides like to exploit, but beyond that you can't tell someone who feels unsafe that it's irrational because you come from a different perspective.

They feel like they feel and it's relates to their own experiences and perceptions. You can try to explain why they are mistaken in their judgement, but you can't label their feelings irrational and think that makes any difference.

How many Republicans are convinced Democrats are coming to take their guns? Yet as of now no Democrat has made any effort to take their guns. And the president can't repeal the 2nd amendment even if they want to.

And good luck taking everyone's guns away.....let me know how that works out.

Yet it doesn't stop the right from having panic attacks over their guns.

Completely irrational fear, yet deeming it so changes little.

What I don't understand is why so many people are convinced the other side does all of this manipulating but their side doesn't.

It's the epitomy of brainwashing.

News flash: all politicians lie, are corrupt, and incite the brainwashed masses. Your guy does it too. I know you think he's honest but he's not.

They all lie and manipulate.
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post #69 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 12:35 PM
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Re: why

After the initial surprise wore off (I wouldn't call it shock, in my case), I started pondering the why of it myself. You see, I was a republican until Kasich quit the primaries. Now I'm undeclared. Both parties are fracked up. The GOP is spineless because they didn't disavow Trump a year ago when they should have, and the DNC is so unwilling to change that they rigged the primaries against Sanders (who should have run as an independent after all).

I'd like to believe that most of America is not racist, bigoted or sexist. Most Americans are decent, moral people. But nearly all of America is frustrated with the status quo (meaning the Big Picture, not just the Obama presidency and the GOP obstructionists). And a large portion of Trump's support had to come from middle America where manufacturing has been tanked due to outsourcing. So, probably the biggest percentage of Trump's support came from people voting against the status quo - which simply translates into "blame the current administration" (add to that the factor that either party seldom ever serves more than 2 terms in a row before the pendulum swings anyway).

Can President-Elect Trump pull off his campaign promises? I doubt it very much, but we'll see. He does appear to be adding like-minded... ...*must*resist*name*calling*... *people* to his cabinet. We'll also have to see whether the GOP controlled Congress will support or obstruct him going forward.

I thought Hillary gave a terrific and very gracious concession speech. She's one tough cookie to have survived two runs for the presidency.

But after Trump's vicious and disgusting campaign, I didn't think his acceptance speech was sincere. He is, after all, a pathological liar (and a narcissist), even if he weren't racist or sexist - he was just using despicable tactics to win (all that was important to him).

Remember too, that Hillary won the popular vote. So, never mind the Electoral College: half of the people who voted supported Trump and half supported Clinton. And we do have to find ways to work together for the good of everybody.

With time, I gain more confidence that our checks and balances system will prevent the most pessimistic predictions of a Trump presidency from coming true. But we'll see.

-10th Engineer Harrison

"“Your brunette,” was how Gleed had described her. What had given him that idea? Had she made some remark that he’d construed as complimentary because it had contained no reference to outsize ears?" - "And Then There Were None", Eric Frank Russell, 1951.
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post #70 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 12:40 PM
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Re: why

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Originally Posted by jld View Post
They were scared to speak their truth. They did not want to be called ignorant or some kind of -ist.

PC is not working. People need to be able to speak their truth, and, ideally, be open to at least considering a different view of things.

We are not going to heal divisions if people cannot even say what they think.
I disagree with this indictment of political correctness, though I don't disagree that people need to be able to express themselves.

In my view, being "PC" is about not being an @$$hole. And it shouldn't mean "if you can't say something nice, then STFU". It should mean, find a way to express yourself without perpetuating hatred, suspicion, or inciting violence toward people who believe or vote differently from you.

-10th Engineer Harrison


"“Your brunette,” was how Gleed had described her. What had given him that idea? Had she made some remark that he’d construed as complimentary because it had contained no reference to outsize ears?" - "And Then There Were None", Eric Frank Russell, 1951.
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post #71 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 01:18 PM
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Re: why

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Originally Posted by 10th Engineer Harrison View Post
I disagree with this indictment of political correctness, though I don't disagree that people need to be able to express themselves.

In my view, being "PC" is about not being an @$$hole. And it shouldn't mean "if you can't say something nice, then STFU". It should mean, find a way to express yourself without perpetuating hatred, suspicion, or inciting violence toward people who believe or vote differently from you.

-10th Engineer Harrison
Completely agree.

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post #72 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 01:31 PM
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Re: why

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Originally Posted by 10th Engineer Harrison View Post
I disagree with this indictment of political correctness, though I don't disagree that people need to be able to express themselves.

In my view, being "PC" is about not being an @$$hole. And it shouldn't mean "if you can't say something nice, then STFU". It should mean, find a way to express yourself without perpetuating hatred, suspicion, or inciting violence toward people who believe or vote differently from you.

-10th Engineer Harrison
If I had to vote on it, I think free speech is ultimately more important than protecting people's feelings.

Someone said it earlier, can't remember who, that it is more helpful to hear what people really think and deal with that effectively than not know those feelings exist and perpetuate whatever "ism" is involved.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #73 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 01:31 PM
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Re: why

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Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
True, but then you can win an election on that.
I don't know. Hilary's campaign of irrational fear of the lurking fascist, racist, sexist, xenophobic, Islamophobic deplorables didn't win. Make America Great Again did though.


Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
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post #74 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 01:52 PM
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Re: why

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Originally Posted by Always Learning View Post
[QUITE]Back to the point of why!

Have any of you figured out why there were so many Trump supporters that stayed quiet until they got to the voting booth?

This is why so many polling and media experts were wrong about this election.

On the news this morning was a man who owned a tattoo parlor. He was offering a free "Make America Great Again" tattoo to anyone who wanted one. He planned to make the same offer for a "Together Again" Tattoo if Hillary had won. The threats and nasty calls he received could not be repeated on TV. The owner of a company a relative works at made an off hand support for Trump comment, not even an official endorsement, a boycott ensued, my relative is handling the calls from the protesters. He said he has never heard such hatred in his life.

Boston public schools are offering post election counseling for students today. Gee that has never happened before. Just how many school kids can even vote. The counseling should have been for the ballot question that lost to expand charter schools. MA has 32,000 students on the waiting lists for charter schools, guess who led the effort to squash it? The teachers unions! and who do they support? democrats.

As far as protesting to to being oppressed, did you take a look at the protesters? Seems to me a lot of young people from many different races were there including white kids. The notion that these kids were out there due to feelings of oppression is just ridiculous. Today's youth have more free stuff available to them than ever before with the exception of good jobs of course.
White kids who are LGBTQ or have friends who are.

I think your definition of oppression is wrong. It has nothing to do with possessions or free stuff.

At the extreme it could be hunted, rounded up, and jailed. It could also mean singled out and denied rights that others have.
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post #75 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2016, 02:02 PM
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Re: why

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White kids who are LGBTQ or have friends who are.

I think your definition of oppression is wrong. It has nothing to do with possessions or free stuff.

At the extreme it could be hunted, rounded up, and jailed. It could also mean singled out and denied rights that others have.
I wasn't trying to offer a definition! I just don't see any wide spread oppression to justify the protests and the outrage being expressed so violently.
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