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post #136 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 11:24 AM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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What are you talking about? Wake up? To what?

No one here is saying to not have welfare and give people a hand up.

Capitalism, kept under control by laws, has been the best producer of wealth in the history of the human race. We need to fix some things, but we cannot throw out capitalism entirely.

Do you want to live like places in Africa and SA where most people are not allowed the benefits of capitalism?
Capitalism kept in check. Founding fathers were wise enough to put in checks and balances. Greed needs a check and balance.
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post #137 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 11:29 AM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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This is likely true.

But all of us are going to pay for this, not just the Trump voters. That is why we all need to be kind and humble and respectful and understanding. We are all in this together.
Or, a Trump presidency might surprise us and do some good. The best thing we could do not is to give him our support and hold his (and his administration's) feet to a very hot fire.

Sadly Bush did not fix some serious problem. Obama had another 8 years to fix them and he ignored them. So what are we left with???

And do not forget, we have 3 branches of government. There is not a lot that trump can do without the cooperation of the other 2 branches.
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post #138 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 11:34 AM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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I took it to mean the money the Catholic Church is paying out for the child sex abuse lawsuits.
Yes they paid out some in law suits.

But the Catholic Church does more charitable work using it's collecting tithing and other donations than any government agency on earth.

They run the largest hospital system in the world. They provide health care to low income people world wide, paid for by donations.

The Catholic school system is one of the largest, if not the largest, school system in the word providing millions of children with a free education as low income people are given scholarships... again paid for by donations.

Then there is Catholic social services that is HUGE.

Those are only 3 of their world wide efforts.

There are protestant Churches who do a lot too.
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post #139 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 11:50 AM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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Or, a Trump presidency might surprise us and do some good. The best thing we could do not is to give him our support and hold his (and his administration's) feet to a very hot fire.

Sadly Bush did not fix some serious problem. Obama had another 8 years to fix them and he ignored them. So what are we left with???

And do not forget, we have 3 branches of government. There is not a lot that trump can do without the cooperation of the other 2 branches.
Obama ignored the problems? Republican congress most obstructionist in history. Blocked judicial appointments. Record number of filibusters. Refusal to review budget plans that had yet to see.

Obama had both his faith and his citizenship questioned for years. Never cracked. Patience of Job. History will show him to be one of the greats.
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post #140 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 11:56 AM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

One thing that is missing from this thread: The very rich should be spending a lot of money on the poor. I would be interested to see who is and who isn't out of the top 20 wealthiest Americans. I was looking for a quote from something I read in high school or college, but can't find it. Basically the premise is that the very rich should be spending a lot of their treasure on the poor and that if they don't do it, they should be getting 'shunned' by their peers for not doing it. Many of the super rich of the 1800s and 1900s gave a lot of money to the poor and if they didn't their peers denounced them. I don't see that happening today, granted I don't run in those circles.

One of the reasons this may not be happening any more is that the government has taken the reigns on this spending through taxes and I wonder if that hurts giving?
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post #141 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 12:01 PM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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Originally Posted by Anon here View Post
Obama ignored the problems? Republican congress most obstructionist in history. Blocked judicial appointments. Record number of filibusters. Refusal to review budget plans that had yet to see.

Obama had both his faith and his citizenship questioned for years. Never cracked. Patience of Job. History will show him to be one of the greats.
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Except for the first two years, in which he had the House AND Senate.

Rather than pursuing measures that would grow the economy, he pursued two large ones that had the exact opposite effect: the Affordable Care Act and Dodd-Frank.

Advancing progressive causes was more important than creating jobs.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #142 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 12:04 PM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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Very few people voted for Trump because of his skin color, stop making stuff up. That is why you are intolerant, you project your beliefs as to why the other side did something. AND YOU ARE WRONG about this. People voted for Trump, primarily, because the economy has been in the crapper for ~12 years. Hope and change didn't fix it, worst recovery, ever. Is that BO's fault? Partially. hence why the D's lost.
Btw, LOL to the 4 thumbs up to your point on which you misunderstood what I said.

I swear, the high fives for you guys reminds me of this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFey...youtu.be&t=102
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post #143 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 12:14 PM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

The problem here is people believing that people holding different opinions have evil intentions.

Let's say you've got two baseball managers. One believes that you win with hitting and the other believes you win with pitching and fielding.

Both managers want to win baseball games.

It's not obvious which strategy gets the best results. In fact, the winning strategy might change from time to time.

Both managers want to win, they have good intentions. It's not that either of them are evil, stupid or bought off by their opponents.

After going long enough without winning with one guy, it's time to give the other one a try.

Both parties have good intentions.

I don't care about intentions. I care about the greater good of the American people.
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post #144 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 12:16 PM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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When did I say people voted for him based on skin color. You are making stuff up.

(I see the mix up...read my whole post...color refers to Red, meaning republican)
Your meaning was not clear. I too thought you mean skin color.
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post #145 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 12:19 PM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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I went to church yesterday, 1st time in a year or so...thought it'd be interesting to see what is said about Trump...I can't tell you how many times I rolled my eyes...thinking "Really!@#"... the Pastor was going on -how NOW WE HAVE "HOPE" AGAIN, hallelujah, euphoria rising in the pews... Trump is the answer to our prayers...he's being used by God like the heathen leader Cyrus ... had to come home & google this...many articles like these....


Ahahahahaha
Well at least its better than "The end times are nigh!" message also circulated in churchie circles

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post #146 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 12:20 PM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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Your meaning was not clear. I too thought you mean skin color.
But I clarified. He even quested my clarification and doubled down, somehow. Once you see you liked something that is misconstrued...don't you go back and unlike it? I guess it doesn't matter when a fellow bro is fighting the "good fight".
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post #147 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 12:26 PM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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Obama ignored the problems? Republican congress most obstructionist in history. Blocked judicial appointments. Record number of filibusters. Refusal to review budget plans that had yet to see.

Obama had both his faith and his citizenship questioned for years. Never cracked. Patience of Job. History will show him to be one of the greats.
All excuses. The only thing that matters in the end is what he got accomplished.
A wiser politician would have found a way to work with both sides of the political isle instead of taking the “we won so shut up” stance.

And no, that is not a partisan estimation. I have the exact same view point about Bush. The Democrat party, the press, etc attacked him non-stop and got in the way of a lot of what he wanted to do. But that’s his fault because he too was apparently not able to put on his big boy pants and figure out how to work through all of that.

In the end of Obama’s administration, the average person is worse off than they were 8 years ago. He did not come through on important promises like putting in place policies that brought jobs back to the USA. On top of that he worked to kill industries and put people out of work.

Last edited by EleGirl; 11-15-2016 at 02:02 PM.
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post #148 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 12:35 PM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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Originally Posted by naiveonedave View Post
One thing that is missing from this thread: The very rich should be spending a lot of money on the poor. I would be interested to see who is and who isn't out of the top 20 wealthiest Americans. I was looking for a quote from something I read in high school or college, but can't find it. Basically the premise is that the very rich should be spending a lot of their treasure on the poor and that if they don't do it, they should be getting 'shunned' by their peers for not doing it. Many of the super rich of the 1800s and 1900s gave a lot of money to the poor and if they didn't their peers denounced them. I don't see that happening today, granted I don't run in those circles.

One of the reasons this may not be happening any more is that the government has taken the reigns on this spending through taxes and I wonder if that hurts giving?
I agree with this. Would love to see that list.

One of the problem with the pay gap with things like CEO pay is that the businesses are private organizations (meaning non-government). We need to decide exactly how much the gov can tell people and companies how they have to spend their money.

If you think that you are underpaid, or don't like that the CEO is over paid, or that the CEO is fleecing the company -- Go get a job that pays more. Clean up your resume, get some more job skills, or just go find a better employer. Get a profile on LinkedIn (I'm getting offers to interview daily.. have no intention of ever working for a big corp again. F that!)

If you don't like that the CEO of some big corp makes way too much in your estimation, stop buying their products. Stop buying Pepsi, Coke, overly expensive athletic shoes and on and on.

Don't like that the Walton family has become the poster family for corporate greed? Stop shopping at Walmart.

The best way to stop this nonsense is for the average citizen to take actions that reduces their wealth than the gov put in something like a pay scale ratio... e.g. CEO's can only earn 5 times what their average high paid exec earns or something like that. You know what happens with that kind of directive? They just pay more to the high paid execs.
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post #149 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 12:37 PM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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But I clarified. He even quested my clarification and doubled down, somehow. Once you see you liked something that is misconstrued...don't you go back and unlike it? I guess it doesn't matter when a fellow bro is fighting the "good fight".
Hey, still love you Herschel. This is just an exchange of ideas.

Last edited by EleGirl; 11-15-2016 at 02:02 PM.
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post #150 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 01:04 PM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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These people that are lazy and work the system are on both sides of the income ladder. I have relatives who do nothing but live on family money. They are a drain on society just as much because they are not contributing to the ecomomic growth of the country.

The fact that some people wether poor or not are lazy will not be altered by welfare policy. Also there are people who are not lazy who find themselves in bad situations that can use welfare for their family benefit to help get back on their feet. Let's not not help the truly needed by unfairly claiming all on welfare are lazy.
Well why not group all together? It is an apparent problem to group all together. Basket of deplorables, etc. I did not put all in one basket in any of my statements. As far as your family living off family money, they contribute in the form of making purchases of goods and services.

Yes, welfare is a helping hand for those in need. However, it is a system open to much abuse. And abused it is.

You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.
― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road
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