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post #106 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 08:52 AM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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I took it to mean the money the Catholic Church is paying out for the child sex abuse lawsuits.
I'd love to see a % of where tithes actually go. It is easy to say, "The Church does more for the poor than yadda yadda yadda" and in an absolute value, it is likely true. But what percentage goes to helping poor, paying lawsuits, making the Vatican awesome and whatever else...

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post #107 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 08:55 AM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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Exactly, at least give the man a chance, for pete's sake.
At what? Making America great again?

Oliver Reveals the Horrible Realizations Since Trump?s Big Win: ?How the Fu*k Did We Get Here?? | Mediaite
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post #108 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 08:55 AM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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How do you know it wouldn't have been worse? You are are making assumptions without facts. Just because something isn't "fixed" doesn't mean it's not working at all. This will always be an uphill battle since by nature, the rich get richer and with a finite supply of wealth, in turn, the poor get poorer.
Herschel, maybe you could explain this better ? You know a lot.

But taking a defensive or accusatory tone is not going to help. Instead, please share your knowledge so we can all learn from you.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #109 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 08:56 AM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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I'd love to see a % of where tithes actually go. It is easy to say, "The Church does more for the poor than yadda yadda yadda" and in an absolute value, it is likely true. But what percentage goes to helping poor, paying lawsuits, making the Vatican awesome and whatever else...
Totally agree. Transparency builds trust.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #110 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 09:03 AM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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How do you know it wouldn't have been worse? You are are making assumptions without facts. Just because something isn't "fixed" doesn't mean it's not working at all. This will always be an uphill battle since by nature, the rich get richer and with a finite supply of wealth, in turn, the poor get poorer.
Because if it were significantly worse, you would have had a revolution. War on poverty/drugs both are and have been losers for pretty much everyone.

There is NO finite supply of wealth, even the most liberal economics professor will admit to that.
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post #111 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 09:04 AM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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Great, continue to throw up liberal clap trap and see what sticks to the wall. Why don't you try to impeach him before he gets into office, EGAD, I can't even fathom the hate that you spew on this board. PUre unadulterated hate.
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post #112 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 09:12 AM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

I think I am uniquely qualified to be able to discuss the subject of where money goes for a church. I am the behind the scenes person for our church, and then responsible for the budget, allocation of funds, and essentially keeping the lights on at our church.

First and foremost, the single most important thing a church does is deliver a message on Sunday. Why? Because the Bible calls us to go and make disciples. Without a message on Sunday, there is no church, and no discipleship.

The second most important thing a church does is outreach. Outreach is a rather large umbrella in that it encompasses not only trying to grow the members of the church, but also involves doing things like food drives, clothing drives, contributing to local causes, and various other charitable things. Outreach is also much more than money in that there are times where we will encourage our members to go and donate their time to feed the homeless, or help a battered women's shelter, or to actually house homeless men in our church for an evening during the colder months through Room In The Inn.

From a strictly budget standpoint, approximately 20 to 25% is allocated for outreach. However, based on the fact that there is more than money when it comes to outreach, you can't simply measure the amount of money contributed as the only factor.

Additional things in our budget include the building payment, power, gas, trash, staff members salaries (which are incredibly low), maintenance of the facilities and equipment, and ministry expenses such as sheet music for the worship band, learning aids for the children's ministry, etc.

In order to deliver a solid message on Sunday, and all of the aforementioned expenses that are associated with delivering the message, our church must take in roughly $1,500 per week. Normally anything beyond that is spent on outreach.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

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Last edited by farsidejunky; 11-15-2016 at 09:17 AM.
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post #113 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 09:13 AM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

I agree in principal, but its difficult in practice. The least productive 20% of people are really difficult to employ in the modern world. Automation is replacing most simple repetitive jobs, and will be gradually moving upmarket. When you are looking at the bottom 20% there are often mild physical and mental issues - nothing that makes someone completely unable to function, but things that make them less efficient.

A work-fare program where rather than just paying welfare, we pay people to work, even if it doesn't make economic sense might work. Unfortunately there are a lot of people where it costs more to enable them to work, than their productivity.

If you've ever been in the position of hiring people, imagine if you had to get by with the least appealing 20% of resumes that you received.




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We need to make the rules governing our country much more favorable in generating jobs for these people. Not giving them permanent welfare. I think DT is the best president for this in forever. Welfare is a needed safety net, but we need to figure out how to make it temporary for as many people on it as possible. Part of this is incumbent on the rich (to employ people here) and government (to help the economy grow to support JOB GROWTH HERE).
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post #114 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 09:19 AM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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Great, continue to throw up liberal clap trap and see what sticks to the wall. Why don't you try to impeach him before he gets into office, EGAD, I can't even fathom the hate that you spew on this board. PUre unadulterated hate.
Do you even understand my stance? Hate? This isn't political. Trump is in no way qualified to be president of the United States. But that isn't even the point, I am not qualified either. I don't have to point out the uncountable reasons why he is not a good person. It has been written here many times. I have no tolerance for the intolerant and you undermine my point and my stance by calling me a hater. Typical.
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post #115 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 09:22 AM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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Do you even understand my stance? Hate? This isn't political. Trump is in no way qualified to be president of the United States. But that isn't even the point, I am not qualified either. I don't have to point out the uncountable reasons why he is not a good person. It has been written here many times. I have no tolerance for the intolerant and you undermine my point and my stance by calling me a hater. Typical.
The reason you are being called a hater is not because of what you are saying, but because of how you are saying it. Your message is being lost in it's delivery.


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"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #116 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 09:22 AM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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Originally Posted by farsidejunky View Post
I think I am uniquely qualified to be able to discuss the subject of where money goes for a church. I am the behind the scenes person for our church, and then responsible for the budget, allocation of funds, and essentially keeping the lights on at our church.

First and foremost, the single most important thing a church does is deliver a message on Sunday. Why? Because the Bible calls us to go and make disciples. Without a message on Sunday, there is no church, and no discipleship.

The second most important thing a church does is outreach. Outreach is a rather large umbrella in that it encompasses not only trying to grow the members of the church, but also involves doing things like food drives, clothing drives, contributing to local causes, and various other charitable things. Outreach is also much more than money in that there are times where we will encourage our members to go and donate their time to feed the homeless, or help a battered women's shelter, or to actually house homeless men in our church for an evening during the colder months through Room In The Inn.

From a strictly budget standpoint, approximately 20 to 25% is allocated for outreach. However, based on the fact that there is more than money when it comes to outreach, you can't simply measure the amount of money contributed as the only factor.

Additional things in our budget include the building payment, power, gas, trash, staff members salaries (which are incredibly low), maintenance of the facilities and equipment, and ministry expenses such as sheet music for the worship band, learning aids for the children's ministry, etc.

In order to deliver a solid message on Sunday, and all of the aforementioned expenses that are associated with delivering the message, our church must take in roughly $1,500 per week. Normally anything beyond that is spent on outreach.
I want to specify that I hold no specific grudges towards any institute of religion. I am extremely skeptical of them all (even the synagogue I grew up going to). I just want everyone to find something that makes them happy, no matter what it is. I also hate when people are taken advantage of. That is my only stance regarding the church finances.
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post #117 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 09:27 AM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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Do you even understand my stance? Hate? This isn't political. Trump is in no way qualified to be president of the United States. But that isn't even the point, I am not qualified either. I don't have to point out the uncountable reasons why he is not a good person. It has been written here many times. I have no tolerance for the intolerant and you undermine my point and my stance by calling me a hater. Typical.
He is not qualified? The qualifications are not that complicated. Remember Washington? Read the constitution? Having a 30 year political career is not required and the founders thought that career politicians ARE the same as having royalty (you know, one of the reasons we rebelled against England).

Most of the Trump is a racist banter (or misogynic or other negative adjective) is mostly fabricated bs by the left to vilify Trump. Almost all of the quotes used to paint him as racist are snippets from larger discussions that are clearly taken out of context.

You are much more intolerant than I am, I will leave it at that.

You are a hater, it is clear as day in the emotion behind what you write.
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post #118 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 09:29 AM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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I want to specify that I hold no specific grudges towards any institute of religion. I am extremely skeptical of them all (even the synagogue I grew up going to). I just want everyone to find something that makes them happy, no matter what it is. I also hate when people are taken advantage of. That is my only stance regarding the church finances.
I was sort of thrust into this position when we had two pastors resign in less than 90 days. Upon taking it over, the first thing I did was institut monthly budget meetings for the first year in order to track the church's debt reduction, which was nearly $18,000. Once that was paid down, we held quarterly meetings.

It is important for me to communicate to the folks who are trusting us with their money to know where that money is going.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #119 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 09:29 AM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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The reason you are being called a hater is not because of what you are saying, but because of how you are saying it. Your message is being lost in it's delivery.
That's not fair. I have said many things many different ways. Often I get replied to with a red high five and a Trump Trump Trump. Or a "liberals" this or a "progressives" that. If you look at my posts, I rarely, if ever, specifically call out conservatives or republicans. Because I don't believe in that. I believe in people and Americans and doing what's right.

You know what is the most un-American ideology? If you say to yourself, "I will never vote for *blue*" or "I will never vote for *red*" you should not consider yourself an American (well, you know, the figurative sense of the word). We live in a democracy and BOTH parties have value to things that they say. To automatically dismiss one side is fascist. If all you want to read and see and hear is things that reinforce your beliefs, that is not American. I have not said one word about Republicans or Conservatives because Trump really isn't either, and he goes above and beyond that.

Trump is an example of what happens when people only vote for their color, giving up what they know is right and selling out just to "win". He is in no way qualified to be president and he is for almost all measures a terrible human being. If that offends you because you voted for him, don't hate the messenger. Hate yourself for putting President Trump in the back of all the Social Studies books.
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post #120 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 09:31 AM
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Re: Struggling with my so called "Conservative" stance...

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Most of the Trump is a racist banter (or misogynic or other negative adjective) is mostly fabricated bs by the left to vilify Trump. Almost all of the quotes used to paint him as racist are snippets from larger discussions that are clearly taken out of context.
I hope some day you will take a shower and wash the sand out of your hair...
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