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post #31 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 02:33 AM
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Re: Catholic/Religious guilt over sex

First off, I am so very happy to say that it was a "good" Catholic girl who richly indoctrinated me to love way back in my formative youth! I was of the thought process that it was us Protestants who were the puritanical ones!

To the best of my biblical knowledge, I do believe that the only unforgivable sin in the eyes of the Heavenly Father is a willful and defiant blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and a conscious, knowing repudiation of Him and His worldly presence!

While there are countless sins, inclusive of sex out of marriage, the Holy Father may very well look down on them, but will always offer His most loving forgiveness for all of those transgressions, knowing all too well that we are His beloved worldly creatures born into a greatly imperfect world!

To forestall that element of sin, all that we have to do is to humbly ask Him for His forgiveness!

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post #32 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 03:58 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Catholic/Religious guilt over sex

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I don't usually get involved in religious threads, but I want to ask how you can say that despite numerous examples similar to what God reportedly inspired others to write in Leviticus:

Leviticus 15:19-33 “Whenever a woman has her menstrual period, she will be ceremonially unclean for seven days. Anyone who touches her during that time will be unclean until evening. 20 Anything on which the woman lies or sits during the time of her period will be unclean. 21 If any of you touch her bed, you must wash your clothes and bathe yourself in water, and you will remain unclean until evening. 22 If you touch any object she has sat on, you must wash your clothes and bathe yourself in water, and you will remain unclean until evening. 23 This includes her bed or any other object she has sat on; you will be unclean until evening if you touch it. 24 If a man has sexual intercourse with her and her blood touches him, her menstrual impurity will be transmitted to him. He will remain unclean for seven days, and any bed on which he lies will be unclean.
As I read this, it is from the Old Testement, and if memory serves it is where the Isrealites were under the Mosaic Law Covenant (I believe, will need to go back and read). Leviticus in particular is extremely specific, and a lot of it is based on cleanliness. I can't speak for how following these things may have protected them during that time, though I suspect they did.

These verses look to be talking about during a woman's period, not about all sex in general, unless I am totally missing that. Like I said, it seems to be some very specific advice in regard to cleanliness. They didn't have the convenience to maintain our level of hygene that we have available in our lives today. Thanks to to hot running shower water and tampons, us girls are usually the only ones that get to fully enjoy all that comes along with this lovely monthly event lol.

I am no bible Scholar, so I'm just answering with what seems in my mind to be a possible way to understand that passage. I wasn't there, so I really can't say

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post #33 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 04:47 AM
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Re: Catholic/Religious guilt over sex

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To forestall that element of sin, all that we have to do is to humbly ask Him for His forgiveness!

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This is very comforting arb. But it is also an issue that I have with my very religious IL's. They seem to think that being freely forgiven = they can just keep on doing wrong things at the same time as finger wagging at other people.

After being confronted with abusing their own children her comment was 'well..I did my best..you'll just have to forgive me.' For some Christians they become lazy with introspection - for others they develop a hyper-vigilant super conscience where they fear they are doing 'wrong' things all the time (my H for example).

I don't understand why God would give us this amazing thing called sexuality and put so many conditions to it.
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post #34 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 05:45 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Catholic/Religious guilt over sexe

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While there are countless sins, inclusive of sex out of marriage, the Holy Father may very well look down on them, but will always offer His most loving forgiveness for all of those transgressions, knowing all too well that we are His beloved worldly creatures born into a greatly imperfect world!

To forestall that element of sin, all that we have to do is to humbly ask Him for His forgiveness![/COLOR][/B]
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But it is also an issue that I have with my very religious IL's. They seem to think that being freely forgiven = they can just keep on doing wrong things at the same time as finger wagging at other people.
These have always been sobering scriptures to me, especially for those who are educated and know bible truths and principals. It's convenient to tell ourselves no matter what we do it will be forgiven. If He doesn't expect us to actually do it, why all the guideance given to us in the scriptures? How are we improving our standing before God if we practice SERIOUS sins willfully, even when we know the truth of the matter and that what we are doing is wrong in Gods eyes. (i,e. Fornication/adultry, sins described as keeping us from possibly inheriting the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10)

This scripture too always gives me food for thought;

Hebrews 10:26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins.

And I'm a sinner...I'm trying to better myself day by day....i

Ciao,

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post #35 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 06:33 AM
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Cool Re: Catholic/Religious guilt over sex

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Originally Posted by peacem View Post
This is very comforting arb. But it is also an issue that I have with my very religious IL's. They seem to think that being freely forgiven = they can just keep on doing wrong things at the same time as finger wagging at other people.

After being confronted with abusing their own children her comment was 'well..I did my best..you'll just have to forgive me.' For some Christians they become lazy with introspection - for others they develop a hyper-vigilant super conscience where they fear they are doing 'wrong' things all the time (my H for example).

I don't understand why God would give us this amazing thing called sexuality and put so many conditions to it.
Without the exacting citation of exhaustive biblical scripture, this doesn't exactly mean that we, as both committed and non-committed Christians, won't ultimately have to face judgment ~ far from it!

In that judgment, we will be called upon to account for all of our worldly sins, whether they be of an egregious or even an extremely minor level. We will also accordingly be praised for all of the good deeds as well as the heartfelt love that we came to foster during our occupancy upon this worldly orb! God will treat us as any loving father would treat his very own children!

But the inherently good news in all of this is that as long as we have accepted within our hearts, the Holy Father on his terms and certainly not ours, then we will never be eternally damned by Him for it!

That, by far, has to be the most comforting news to ever be found in all of this!

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Last edited by arbitrator; 11-17-2016 at 07:12 AM. Reason: Edification
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post #36 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 06:37 AM
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Re: Catholic/Religious guilt over sex

My wife and I are both products of old school Western NY and Baltimore Catholicism. My parents in particular were conservative catholics, mass every Sunday, confession every month, went to the Latin mass whenever possible. Masturbation makes you go blind, no sex before marriage, anything other than man on top PIV was a perversion, etc.

We both had, and to some extent, still have issues around sexual repression. My wife still has issues with masturbating in front of me, and touching herself in general. She blames it on her catholic upbringing. I seem to have fewer issues than she does. We went to MC/Sex Therapy for a couple of years, and that helped a lot with the guilt and repression, but there are still some residual issues as previously stated.

Ironically enough, I had a girlfriend in college who was a total freak in the sack, loved anal, enjoyed bondage, group sex, exhibitionism, etc. She grew up Catholic in Baltimore and went to Archbishop Keough HS. She seemed to have no sexual repression issues whatsoever.
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post #37 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 06:52 AM
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Cool Re: Catholic/Religious guilt over sexe

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These have always been sobering scriptures to me, especially for those who are educated and know bible truths and principals. It's convenient to tell ourselves no matter what we do it will be forgiven. If He doesn't expect us to actually do it, why all the guideance given to us in the scriptures? How are we improving our standing before God if we practice SERIOUS sins willfully, even when we know the truth of the matter and that what we are doing is wrong in Gods eyes. (i,e. Fornication/adultry, sins described as keeping us from possibly inheriting the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10)

This scripture too always gives me food for thought;

Hebrews 10:26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins.

And I'm a sinner...I'm trying to better myself day by day....i
But always know that we all are, and will always continue to be sinners, who have fallen far short of the glory of God!

Our salvation is received strictly through God's most loving and redeeming grace!

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Last edited by arbitrator; 11-17-2016 at 07:16 AM. Reason: Edification
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post #38 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 07:28 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Catholic/Religious guilt over sexe

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But always know that we all are, and will always continue to be sinners, who have fallen far short of the glory of God!

Our salvation is received strictly through God's most loving and redeeming grace!

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Amen my friend!

Ciao,

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post #39 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 10:43 AM
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Re: Catholic/Religious guilt over sex

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Ironically enough, I had a girlfriend in college who was a total freak in the sack, loved anal, enjoyed bondage, group sex, exhibitionism, etc. She grew up Catholic in Baltimore and went to Archbishop Keough HS. She seemed to have no sexual repression issues whatsoever.
I think I know her! Catholic school girls, back in my day, went in two directions. Absolutely wild, or absolutely boring.

Funny how many of us from smaltimore have been adversely affected by the catholic school education.

My mother was Italian catholic and once I was an adult I came to understand her religion was actually a group of old Italian superstitions that the church found convenient to reinforce.

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post #40 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 02:56 PM
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Re: Catholic/Religious guilt over sex

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Our "sex talk" consisted of them tossing a sex-ed pamphlet from school in my room, and then saying I should ask if I have any questions.
I picture this like a soldier tossing a hand grenade into a room and running as fast as hell away from it.

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post #41 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 05:20 PM
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Re: Catholic/Religious guilt over sex

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This is very comforting arb. But it is also an issue that I have with my very religious IL's. They seem to think that being freely forgiven = they can just keep on doing wrong things at the same time as finger wagging at other people.

After being confronted with abusing their own children her comment was 'well..I did my best..you'll just have to forgive me.' For some Christians they become lazy with introspection - for others they develop a hyper-vigilant super conscience where they fear they are doing 'wrong' things all the time (my H for example).

I don't understand why God would give us this amazing thing called sexuality and put so many conditions to it.
Ah, they combine hypocrisy and child abuse, my two favourite hates. Don't know if you want to fight them with this, but your best ammunition is probably Matthew 7:21-23 and surrounding verses.

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

I heard it used by a wise old preacher, talking about the scariest verses in the bible. Most Christians have their favourite verses, but he asked which is the scariest. This was his answer, with the idea of consider the possibility that you are deluding yourself. So watch ourselves carefully.

Often Christians have a verse or tradition that they use to justify their hypocrisy. These verses are a good counter to that.

Views of and excessive guilt about pre-marital sex are especially hypocritical. Yes there is a commandment against pre-marital sex. But that commandment was not given as the most important commandment. Actually pre-marital sex just gets included with adultery, but people worry mostly about pre-marital sex, and less so about adultery. And coveting gets mentioned in three commandments, but few seem worried about that.

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post #42 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 12:19 PM
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Re: Catholic/Religious guilt over sex

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As I read this, it is from the Old Testement, and if memory serves it is where the Isrealites were under the Mosaic Law Covenant (I believe, will need to go back and read). Leviticus in particular is extremely specific, and a lot of it is based on cleanliness. I can't speak for how following these things may have protected them during that time, though I suspect they did.

These verses look to be talking about during a woman's period, not about all sex in general, unless I am totally missing that. Like I said, it seems to be some very specific advice in regard to cleanliness. They didn't have the convenience to maintain our level of hygene that we have available in our lives today. Thanks to to hot running shower water and tampons, us girls are usually the only ones that get to fully enjoy all that comes along with this lovely monthly event lol.

I am no bible Scholar, so I'm just answering with what seems in my mind to be a possible way to understand that passage. I wasn't there, so I really can't say
Fair enough that it is more about a women's uncleanliness during her special time of the month and warning men to not even sit in the same spot where a menstruating woman sat. I will leave it to everyone's own judgement about whether it seems like something an all-knowing creator of the entire universe would write.
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post #43 of 53 (permalink) Old 12-04-2016, 05:09 PM
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Re: Catholic/Religious guilt over sex

as far as Catholics, the priest may have told you a lot of misinformation about sex, and tried to back it up as "the word of god". But then how do you explain that sone priests were diddling the alter boys???

I view the Catholic religion, after being educated in Catholic grade and high school....as a series of suggestions. Not rules. Not edicts from the pope. But generally suggestions about how to live your life, what Jesus' teachings were, etc. All the old "masturbation is a sin" and "you can't eat meat on Friday" stuff was just hogwash. For a long time birth control was even against the church, which made NO sense at all! Somewhere along the way, you should have figured that out on your own.

I see no reason to be anticatholic, or to refuse to let your kids learn to be Catholic, just because some priests or nuns were nut jobs 30 years ago!. But you DO need to teach the kids to not blindly accept the church's teachings. They need to learn those teachings, and decide themselves if they want to accept all of them, or just a subset of them.

Some of the really good things about Catholisism involve the marriage or funeral rites. If you are grieving over a dead parent, it is very comforting to have a funeral mass, and think that the deceased is up in heaven now.

Last edited by Talker67; 12-04-2016 at 05:21 PM.
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post #44 of 53 (permalink) Old 12-04-2016, 06:32 PM
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Re: Catholic/Religious guilt over sex

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as far as Catholics, the priest may have told you a lot of misinformation about sex, and tried to back it up as "the word of god". But then how do you explain that sone priests were diddling the alter boys???

I view the Catholic religion, after being educated in Catholic grade and high school....as a series of suggestions. Not rules. Not edicts from the pope. But generally suggestions about how to live your life, what Jesus' teachings were, etc. All the old "masturbation is a sin" and "you can't eat meat on Friday" stuff was just hogwash. For a long time birth control was even against the church, which made NO sense at all! Somewhere along the way, you should have figured that out on your own.

I see no reason to be anticatholic, or to refuse to let your kids learn to be Catholic, just because some priests or nuns were nut jobs 30 years ago!. But you DO need to teach the kids to not blindly accept the church's teachings. They need to learn those teachings, and decide themselves if they want to accept all of them, or just a subset of them.

Some of the really good things about Catholisism involve the marriage or funeral rites. If you are grieving over a dead parent, it is very comforting to have a funeral mass, and think that the deceased is up in heaven now.
As I wrote earlier I was raised as a catholic but not a very good one.There is a little loophole in the Catholic religion that doesn't get much attention.It is indulgences.Basically you can be forgiven any sin if you carry out certain acts.This could be attending mass on the first Friday of every month for a period of months or as simple as a financial contribution to the church.Certain popes just openly sold them and as the pope is considered infallible this was basically a pardon.Without trying to threadjack I would love to write about the problems I had with my parents deaths and their local church initially refusing to allow them to be buried together.
The Catholic Church is a business.
In business money rules.
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post #45 of 53 (permalink) Old 12-07-2016, 04:56 PM
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Re: Catholic/Religious guilt over sex

I was never Catholic.. but I did feel guilty over pleasuring my boyfriend (now husband) and his touching me (the whole pre-marital petting)

Growing up as I did, watching my mother self destruct before me after she opened the door to user men (different men, she was raped a few times.. had a nervous breakdown, then ran off with a drunk) .. I surely had my share of conflicting views on sex....what I seen from that, living in that small house, paper thin walls... I could hear them in the bedroom... men getting off ....then leaving.. no warmth, no love... it was UGLY... I knew one thing at an early age... no man was going to use me like that.. He can go **** himself..

I was always a more sensitive romantic type (I had dreams of being married / good man by my side, raising our family)....I was also very horny - loved the boys.. many fantasies !!... but at the same time I had a stick up my a** about guys LIKE THAT... I cared a great deal to save myself for a man who truly loved me... was this because of religious teachings or more what I witnessed at a tender age ...

So I had a need to safeguard myself....I wanted there to be LOVE with sex...intimacy.. caring, building something together, lying in each others arms afterwards... a trust that this person was there for me in every way.. not just a night of passion...ya know..

Then going to Youth Group - this helped me in some ways get through some tough times at home... so I'm not going to knock it... it gave me hope for a better day... then I met HIM...

I do remember feeling -shortly after we met.. alone in his room ... "OMG -how are we NOT going to go all the way!".. my loins were on fire.. but I was just 15!! Somehow we managed .. the boundary was -not sticking it in.. there was no way we were going to keep our hands of each other though !! I looked at it as riding the fence.. but still I felt guilty..like what we were doing was shameful... even though in my heart, in his.. it brought us closer emotionally.. it held us, it allowed us to not have to go home taking cold showers & shaking a fist at God that He was some sort of kill joy... I've always felt the Church is too strict here somehow.. if God gives us these raging hormones.. it's kinda inevitable we're going to be laying hands on each other -at the very least...

It's difficult.. because if sex is so free, if there is no boundaries for where we are in a relationship.... why get married at all ? I can see where the church is coming from..but then it's also not good to marry - because you can't wait for sex ! I don't know the answer to this dilemma...

I think it is good to have some restraint / discipline in our youth... to not give in to lusts that will ultimately hurt us or the other person... there is a thicker bond when sex has entered a relationship.

I don't regret that I've only been with my husband.. he doesn't regret that we waited till our wedding night to go all the way...but today it's all been turned around.. now if you're not having sex - getting experience - you get shamed.. something must be wrong with you... you're a prude, frigid, low drive... bla bla bla...

I really don't think religion was the major player for me.. It was a vow I made to myself -due to what I seen growing up....then I met a man who honored it.. But yeah.. it's also not so easy.. to date for years feeling guilty... then suddenly all of a sudden.. be as free as a sex kitten once you marry.. I had to overcome some inhibitions , for sure.. even after we married...

Last edited by SimplyAmorous; 12-07-2016 at 05:00 PM.
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