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post #31 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 12:21 AM
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Re: Safe Space for those who are hurting after Election Day

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Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post
Now, to be fair, Trump's election rocked my world too. I took a day off from my classes to cope with it, and by cope with it I mean lay on my bed surrounded by numerous handkerchiefs and a bowl of Ben and Jerry's. I would have to say my fears for the environment have gotten more severe, as well.

Yes, we as a country will move past this, but what you have to understand is that for the next four years, people will have to deal with a lot more racism, sexism, and anti-environmentalism than I think anyone expected to see in the latter half of the 2010's. What is upsetting people is not the fact that their chosen candidate lost, but the fact that the world is actually a far less tolerant and environmentally-conscious place than they had hoped and/or expected. The realization that we, as a society, are not as far along as we thought, the realization that we have so much work to do just to get us back to where we were before this election, let alone make progress. It's a bit heartbreaking, TBH.

And today's youth are not weak. People are marching in major cities en mass, being sprayed with hoses in the frigid November weather, being maced and shot with rubber bullets in the name of liberty.
Before this election, this country has never been more divided, thanks in part to the divider-in-chief. I've seen all the times in the last 8 years where, instead of bringing people together, he chose to divide us, instead. He divided people from one another based on race, class, gender, and ideology. This was all before Trump ran for POTUS. From playing the race card on his way to the White House, to saying the police acted stupidly, to making the poor hate the rich, he's not a uniter.

Weakness is not having the emotional and intellectual maturity to respect the process that has been in place for some 240 years. Weakness is crying foul after their candidate lost because they can't accept the outcome. How are they any different from a child who loses a game and demands a do-over? Weakness is thinking that it's the beginning of the end and failing to realize that the sun will come up the next day regardless of who wins. I and many others saw the disaster that Obama would be back in 2008 but we didn't behave like this. We went to work and school the next day. There was no request of professors to delay any deadline to turn in assignments. There was no need for puppy therapy, safe spaces, crayons and coloring books. Most of us still called him our president. We didn't launch twitter hashtag campaign #notmypresident.

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post #32 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 02:21 AM
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Re: Safe Space for those who are hurting after Election Day

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Red,

What part of Herschel's post isn't factual/documented public record?
The references to "bankruptcy" and "screwing people out of money" and "not paying taxes" parts of the quote are used by Herschel and others to describe Trump as some sort of evil carpetbagger.

The facts are that Trump has started 500+ businesses in his lifetime and has filed for bankruptcy exactly 4 times for 4 of those business concerns. That is a phenomenal track record in business terms. Each time he filed he followed the bankruptcy laws that apply to all of us.

He also has followed the tax laws in filing his business taxes, the same laws that apply to all of us.

My wish is that people would stop exaggerating and, get their facts straight.
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post #33 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 03:31 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Safe Space for those who are hurting after Election Day

I wonder? If everything had been going well for the USA, no errors by both the Republicans and the Democrats, no frauds, no cheating, no lying and so forth, would Donald Trump had stood for election?

I doubt he would have.

Why would he have left the comfort zone of a Billionaire property developer, otherwise?

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post #34 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 05:05 AM
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Safe Space for those who are hurting after Election Day

Quote:
The references to "bankruptcy" and "screwing people out of money" and "not paying taxes" parts of the quote are used by Herschel and others to describe Trump as some sort of evil carpetbagger.

The facts are that Trump has started 500+ businesses in his lifetime and has filed for bankruptcy exactly 4 times for 4 of those business concerns. That is a phenomenal track record in business terms. Each time he filed he followed the bankruptcy laws that apply to all of us.

He also has followed the tax laws in filing his business taxes, the same laws that apply to all of us.

My wish is that people would stop exaggerating and, get their facts straight.
Trump employs a tactic to stiff people out of the money they are legally entitled to. If you had been reading all media sources you would know this.

If you have already made up your mind that it is all made up then don't bother educating yourself by reading the USAToday link below.

If you are genuinely interested in "getting the facts straight" as you say then give it a read. It should be an eye-opener for those who focused all of their election attention on how bad HRC is.

He makes partial payment citing some bogus issue with the goods delivered or work performed, so the person or company that is owed the money has to sue him to recover what they are owed. Of course, the lawyers who are already on his payroll and cost him much less to employ than if he had to pay for outside counsel, drag out the proceedings and the party suing realizes that it may cost them $50,000 in hourly lawyers fees to recover the $50,000 owed them. At that point most give up.

It's a classic case of an immoral bully taking what he wants by force, in this case financial force.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...uits/85297274/

http://correctrecord.org/fact-check-...ing-his-bills/
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post #35 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 05:25 AM
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Re: Safe Space for those who are hurting after Election Day

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Well that's because the above is the only argument that stage one thinkers have and they have been using it for decades. It's nonsensical and I don't understand why anyone with half a brain buys into it.
You have asked and answered in the same sentence.

Peace and long life
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post #36 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 05:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Safe Space for those who are hurting after Election Day

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Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post
Now, to be fair, Trump's election rocked my world too. I took a day off from my classes to cope with it, and by cope with it I mean lay on my bed surrounded by numerous handkerchiefs and a bowl of Ben and Jerry's. I would have to say my fears for the environment have gotten more severe, as well.

Yes, we as a country will move past this, but what you have to understand is that for the next four years, people will have to deal with a lot more racism, sexism, and anti-environmentalism than I think anyone expected to see in the latter half of the 2010's. What is upsetting people is not the fact that their chosen candidate lost, but the fact that the world is actually a far less tolerant and environmentally-conscious place than they had hoped and/or expected. The realization that we, as a society, are not as far along as we thought, the realization that we have so much work to do just to get us back to where we were before this election, let alone make progress. It's a bit heartbreaking, TBH.

And today's youth are not weak. People are marching in major cities en mass, being sprayed with hoses in the frigid November weather, being maced and shot with rubber bullets in the name of liberty.
The problem is that sometimes the sollution is worse than the cure. Or has unintended negative consequences.

Did the people who built nuclear power plants want them to blow up and poison the countryside? No. But that has happened.

Did the people who advocated for giant windmill power pants want them to turn out to be gigantic bird and bat mincing machines? No, but that is what is happening.

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post #37 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 08:00 AM
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Re: Safe Space for those who are hurting after Election Day

Trump's win was all about aspirations of the lower middle class to "make it big". Witness the popularity of real estate TV shows and investment seminars and the like. Add the obligatory arm candy, throw in a few empty promises, add an archaic election system, and voila!

I feel Trump's victory is important only to the extent the Republican machine decides to play nice with him, and pushes forward the time honored Republican agenda. Therefore, no swamp draining, no wall, no jobs, a few ceremonial pieces of legislation...

We survived worse, far worse, with George W Bush... War, the great depression, bubbles, $147 crude, the works. We'll survive this one too.

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post #38 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 08:33 AM
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Re: Safe Space for those who are hurting after Election Day

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Originally Posted by john117 View Post
Trump's win was all about aspirations of the lower middle class to "make it big". Witness the popularity of real estate TV shows and investment seminars and the like. Add the obligatory arm candy, throw in a few empty promises, add an archaic election system, and voila!

I feel Trump's victory is important only to the extent the Republican machine decides to play nice with him, and pushes forward the time honored Republican agenda. Therefore, no swamp draining, no wall, no jobs, a few ceremonial pieces of legislation...

We survived worse, far worse, with George W Bush... War, the great depression, bubbles, $147 crude, the works. We'll survive this one too.

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John, did you vote for Trump? I thought you said last spring that you were going to, to teach the Democrats (or was it the country?) a lesson.

You certainly do not have to answer. I am just curious.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #39 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 09:14 AM
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Re: Safe Space for those who are hurting after Election Day

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Keep in mind that it is you, not the ones here who voted for Trump, who has been talking about the necessity of genocide to impose your will on others.


It seems that the violence and intolerance is coming from the left.
Once again, there is a MASSIVE DIFFERENCE in genocide- the willful murder of people because they belong to a certain race, ethnicity, religion, or creed- and accepting that perhaps we may not be able to save everyone whist mankind finally steps up to the plate to take the actions it needs to take to save the species. If what I'm advocating for is genocide, then EMTs commit murder every day by making split-second decisions for who can be saved and who must be left at the wayside in emergency situations.

But I digress.

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post #40 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 09:32 AM
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Re: Safe Space for those who are hurting after Election Day

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Originally Posted by Red Sonja View Post
The references to "bankruptcy" and "screwing people out of money" and "not paying taxes" parts of the quote are used by Herschel and others to describe Trump as some sort of evil carpetbagger.

The facts are that Trump has started 500+ businesses in his lifetime and has filed for bankruptcy exactly 4 times for 4 of those business concerns. That is a phenomenal track record in business terms. Each time he filed he followed the bankruptcy laws that apply to all of us.
Speaking of facts: There were 6 bankruptcies to the tune of quite literally billions of dollars. They were spectacular failures of umbrella corps that had several of his interests under them.

Apparently the idea of "4" comes from Trump himself, who decided to count the first three as one. https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...-or-six-times/

As for the 515 businesses, a lot of those were also failures -- they just didn't get him filing for bankruptcy. And a lot were also only very loosely connected to him.

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post #41 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 09:56 AM
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Re: Safe Space for those who are hurting after Election Day

I very much dislike Trump as president, but I still agree with what you wrote below. Trump won the election, he gets to be president and stay president unless he is impeached for violating the law. I think he will be bad for the country, but not nearly as bad as the problems that would be caused by trying to invalidate the election.

I'm generally pretty liberal in my thinking, but many liberals do strike me as spoiled brats who complain when they don't get their way, and are too closed minded to even listen to the other side. You guys are embarrassing me.

Rather than protesting, and complaining on FB, work for the campaigns of candidates you support for congress - we have elections in less than 2 years. Donate time or money to the ACLU to help legally protect your rights.








Quote:
Originally Posted by becareful2 View Post
snip

Weakness is not having the emotional and intellectual maturity to respect the process that has been in place for some 240 years. Weakness is crying foul after their candidate lost because they can't accept the outcome. How are they any different from a child who loses a game and demands a do-over? Weakness is thinking that it's the beginning of the end and failing to realize that the sun will come up the next day regardless of who wins. I and many others saw the disaster that Obama would be back in 2008 but we didn't behave like this. We went to work and school the next day. There was no request of professors to delay any deadline to turn in assignments. There was no need for puppy therapy, safe spaces, crayons and coloring books. Most of us still called him our president. We didn't launch twitter hashtag campaign #notmypresident.
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post #42 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 10:15 AM
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Re: Safe Space for those who are hurting after Election Day

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John, did you vote for Trump? I thought you said last spring that you were going to, to teach the Democrats (or was it the country?) a lesson.

You certainly do not have to answer. I am just curious.
For the primary I did. Not that it mattered in my state...

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post #43 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 10:20 AM
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post #44 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 11:56 AM
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Re: Safe Space for those who are hurting after Election Day

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Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post
Once again, there is a MASSIVE DIFFERENCE in genocide- the willful murder of people because they belong to a certain race, ethnicity, religion, or creed- and accepting that perhaps we may not be able to save everyone whist mankind finally steps up to the plate to take the actions it needs to take to save the species. If what I'm advocating for is genocide, then EMTs commit murder every day by making split-second decisions for who can be saved and who must be left at the wayside in emergency situations.

But I digress.
"Genocide" is not the exact correct word for what you suggested. You said that you want some foreign entity to take control of environmental issues and to issue martial law in the USA and world wide. You also brought up that you are ok with violence against people being used to enforce this eco-martial law. Maybe we could just call it "mass slaughter" instead of "genocide". It's very reminiscent of what happened in Red China and the Soviet Union-Martial law and mass slaughter for the good of everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post
Personally I'd be just fine with worldwide martial law designed to uphold and protect the environment above anything and everything else- An Ecocracy if you will. Why? Because it would be uncomfortable for a few short years at best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EllaSuaveterre View Post
Okay, people are seriously misunderstanding me, here. In general, I don't advocate for genocide at all. If we can save these countless lives that I personally consider "worth the cost" in order to save our species (Has that not sunk in yet? It's the fate of mankind at stake here! All of us! You! Your children! Your spouse! EVERYONE!!) then by all means we should save them. I only advocate violence- or more accurately, allowing casualties to happen- as a last resort. I'm not Hitler. I would NEVER advocate for allowing others to die if they can be spared.
EllaSuaveterre, I'm not attacking you here. I'm trying to get you thinking more deeply about what you are endorsing. Once some group had the authority to impose marital law worldwide they will not give it up without a fight. Don't forget that absolute power corrupts, absolutely.

Plus, who in the world would we trust? The UN has peace keeping forces. And guess what has happened with the peace keeping forces? They abuse their power to rape young girls, steal and sell the relief food and engage in terrorist activities. And these are the folks you want to give martial law right to?

I also think that you are grossly over stating the case of global warming, or climate change. We need to be better care takers of our earth. The hysteria does not help.
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post #45 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 12:03 PM
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Re: Safe Space for those who are hurting after Election Day

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I know this was meant as a joke. However, can someone please explain why this presidential campaign and election has caused such mass hysteria in the populace?

It is beyond my comprehension ... the crap on Facebook, the "heard a rumor so it must be true" reactionary nut-jobs, the stage one thinking, the violence, etc ... it's as if they think the "end times" are coming.

Hey Red......Remember we survived Nixon

This 2 shall pass.

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Endeavor to persevere for your love and happiness

Give up on yourself and others will follow
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