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post #31 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 11:37 AM
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Re: Tolerant liberals?

Sadly, as our intellects devolve, the tools of communication are no longer viable instruments to effect discourse. We are reverting back to baser forms of "communication". Reason, rational and logic are becoming less and less effective with each passing generation. What we are left with is threats, intimidation and ultimately, violence. Children's minds cannot understand higher forms of rational thought so all we are left with are physical "tools". Spankings, if you will, but on a grander scale and doled out by other children. This road we are traveling will not be pleasant.


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post #32 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 11:43 AM
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Tolerant liberals?

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I dunno! David Duke is obviously happy about the state of how things are going!
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Well, the obvious inference of this post shatters any optimism of some people's capacity for rational thought.

As the saying goes: opinion is ultimately determined by emotion, not intellect.

.........><)))#">
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post #33 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 12:08 PM
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Re: Tolerant liberals?

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On an individual level, of course not. Because on an individual level, I care only about myself and my family. But we aren't talking in individuals here. What we are talking about is WHY things are happening. A KKK rally that is being proactive and spewing hate is significantly different than reacting to a president whom you feel is racist or even when a police officer shoots an unarmed minority and you feel it hits too close to home. Look, I have said I don't agree with riots. But maybe that's because I sit in my suburban house with everything I need and want and enjoy my life.

Drawing a comparison between the two is disingenuous and feeds into the narrative that the rioters are just like the KKK. If that is your goal and you want to feed that meal to the ignorant masses...then go right ahead. But this isn't a liberal or conservative thing to me. This is about honesty and intention. People often justify how they feel by making the narrative fit their needs.
I agree with you on this.

The KKK has a long history of being an organization that historically has taken racism and hate to levels that are unspeakable.

They are not comparable to the people protesting against Trump. That is why I asked for context of those photos.

We need to look at the anti-Trump protesters on a totally different level. There are, I believe two groups in the anti-Trump protesters.

One group are those who are genuinely concerned and legally expressing their concern through peaceful protest.

The other group are the ones who are rioters whose intent goes further. I believe that their intent is to cause civil unrest for the purpose of dismantling our social/political system. Many of them are paid agitators. This group is dangerous and they hide among the first group.

But I would not compare the second group to the KKK either. they have different goals and tactics.

ETA: Also, on the threads here for months, there has been many posts that compare anyone to does not vehemently oppose Trump to the KKK and white nationalists/supremists. It is wrong to compare the average person who is not carrying a pitch fork in response to Trump to the KKK and white nationalists/supremists. Yet that has been going on in many of the threads in this forum.

Last edited by EleGirl; 11-22-2016 at 12:18 PM.
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post #34 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 12:54 PM
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Re: Tolerant liberals?



It could be better or worse than it looks. Before we can assess the severity of the bullet wound, we need to determine if he was shot by the rioters or the white nationalist.

If you don't embody controversy, what you say will become just another part of the media driven culture of stifling thought and debate about issues.
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post #35 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 02:02 PM
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Re: Tolerant liberals?

Being from the South (Alabama and Louisiana) and a child in the fifties when the klan was very active (burning crosses, riding on running boards etc.) I know too well how horrible they are. Nonetheless, it just goes to show you how un-level the playing field has become in debating these issues. Folks can call the President elect Hitler, cozening up and supporting the KKK, and the like with impunity. But you let somebody suggest that the rioters and militant gangs are similar to the KKK, and it seems everybody takes umbrage.

If you don't embody controversy, what you say will become just another part of the media driven culture of stifling thought and debate about issues.
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post #36 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 06:51 PM
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Re: Tolerant liberals?

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Just because you say you are something, doesn't mean you are. I apologize if you think that was an attack on you, I was trying to put context around why you felt his posts we ok. You didn't even answer the question I posted.

As far as your saying that I am trying to "goad" moderators. I did not do anything of the sort. I wasn't trying to provoke you into a fight. Am I not allowed to question why something is deemed acceptable or not? Oh, and along the same lines of just because you say you are something doesn't mean it's true, just because you say you aren't threatening me doesn't mean it's true.

A ban is probably needed anyway, whether by you or me. I am shocked how one sided a lot of the conversation is here...but I guess I understand why...
Herschel . . . Honestly, you are not going to find the kind of critical analysis you are looking for here. You will try and debate and it will be an exercise in frustration that will make you more depressed about the world. You are right about the definite slant to the right on TAM regardless of whether people acknowledge or not. I've found reasonable input on relationships etc. here but wandering into the political divide makes you question your reality.

When so many people have come to believe you "can't trust the news" and things like Infowars, Breitbart, and Fake Face Book News, and Trump's twitter account are people's dominant sources of information (and start to make Faux look almost reasonable), the world is in a sad, sad place and you can't have meaningful conversations let alone debates.

Just try and comprehend what's happening - This is 2016 and you are having a debate on whether a resurgence in KKK is equivalent to public protests against Trump. Seriously! It feels like a parallel universe, or like we just suddenly woke up 50 years ago. It is best to walk away, and focus your energies of the massive fights for equality and justice that lay ahead with this administration.

I am walking away too - see you on the other side.
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post #37 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 07:00 PM
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Re: Tolerant liberals?

Here is the issue...

There is no resurgence of the KKK. They remain a small, despicable group of people. Up to now the press has mostly ignored them because they are irrelevant. All of our police and intelligence agencies keep an eye on them, a very close eye.

What is concerning to some is not the protesters so much. So people get in groups to voice their opinion. OK. that's fine and lawful.

It is the people who are causing property damage, calling for the rape of Melania, beating people up, burning police cars, and on and on. And a lot of these folks are paid for by Soros and other leftist organizations. I do not understand anyone who does not see this as a problem.

One thing that some seem to not understand is that most here who are speaking out about the rioters (not protesters, the rioters) would be just as upset if groups on the other side of political spectrum did it. It's not partisan for a good number of us.

But it seems that anyone who does not vilify everything and everyone on the right is seen as an evil member of the right. That's ridiculous.

Last edited by EleGirl; 11-22-2016 at 09:13 PM.
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post #38 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 09:10 PM
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Re: Tolerant liberals?

Hear, hear.

If you don't embody controversy, what you say will become just another part of the media driven culture of stifling thought and debate about issues.
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post #39 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 03:49 PM
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Re: Tolerant liberals?

Protest, march on the streets or freeways, carry banners … no problem, some will roll their eyes others will sympathize but your message will ultimately be “heard”.

Riot, destroy property, perpetrate violence against your fellow human-beings … huge problem, no one will care about your politics or beliefs and, no one will “hear” your message.

It’s that simple and has nothing to do with conservative or liberal.
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post #40 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 06:33 PM
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Re: Tolerant liberals?

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Protest, march on the streets or freeways, carry banners … no problem, some will roll their eyes others will sympathize but your message will ultimately be “heard”.

Riot, destroy property, perpetrate violence against your fellow human-beings … huge problem, no one will care about your politics or beliefs and, no one will “hear” your message.

It’s that simple and has nothing to do with conservative or liberal.
Actually, walking in streets and freeways and blocking traffic during a protest is against the law. It causes people to get to work late, or not get to work at all. It blocks emergency vehicles. I keeps parents from being able to pick up their children on time so they have to pay for each extra minute that child is with the sitter. It's a form of destruction that can cause people to lose their jobs, to die in an ambulance, to have to pay huge amounts of late fees. It's not ok and not acceptable.

And you are right, in the end, it makes it so that few listen to the message of the protest. Protesters now this. So we need to ask ourselves why are they doing things that they know will make people not listen to their message?

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post #41 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 07:20 PM
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Re: Tolerant liberals?

In the final analysis, you either believe in a form of government where we elect our elected officials under a free electoral system, and accept the results, or you don't. Christine Amanpour got it right when she said, "The winning candidate did a savvy end run around us and used it to go straight to the people".

If you don't embody controversy, what you say will become just another part of the media driven culture of stifling thought and debate about issues.
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post #42 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 07:48 PM
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Re: Tolerant liberals?

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In the final analysis, you either believe in a form of government where we elect our elected officials under a free electoral system, and accept the results, or you don't. Christine Amanpour got it right when she said, "The winning candidate did a savvy end run around us and used it to go straight to the people".
I am starting to think that a lot of the people protesting and rioting do not believe in our form of government. I think they want a totalitarian government that only allows whatever it that they think things should be... and that includes the idea that free speech is allowed as long as it agrees with them.

Right now some on the left are trying to get the electors to vote against the vote in their district. So far 6 have signed a pact to do exactly that and are working to suck others into their ranks.

And from what I've read, Hillary might be challenging the vote and demanding a complete re-count. That would delay the outcome for months. Funny how she might do a 180 on that one.
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post #43 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 09:15 PM
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Re: Tolerant liberals?

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I am starting to think that a lot of the people protesting and rioting do not believe in our form of government. I think they want a totalitarian government that only allows whatever it that they think things should be... and that includes the idea that free speech is allowed as long as it agrees with them.

Right now some on the left are trying to get the electors to vote against the vote in their district. So far 6 have signed a pact to do exactly that and are working to suck others into their ranks.
Agreed. I think we are getting close to civil war, or at least open nasty violence. If they get enough faithless Electors to give the election to Hillary, there will be widespread civil unrest. If Hillary ends up winning Michigan it would only take 21 to turn the election. It doesn't seem at all likely to me it would happen.

My point is more I don't think the hoodlums on the left realize the fire they are playing with. Some do, such as Soros et al, and in fact their goal is chaos for their own gain. That's how Soro's has become a billionaire. Anyhow the minions and useful idiots of the left still don't understand why Trump won.
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post #44 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-24-2016, 09:57 AM
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Re: Tolerant liberals?

Hey, we are a long time away from such events... we've had it good here but some of us have experienced government toppling riots... start worrying only after CNN plays patriotic songs 24/7


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post #45 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-24-2016, 11:49 AM
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Re: Tolerant liberals?

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Hey, we are a long time away from such events... we've had it good here but some of us have experienced government toppling riots... start worrying only after CNN plays patriotic songs 24/7
When the rioters get tired of destroying their own neighborhoods and move into more affluent or white areas, things will change. But perhaps that isn't on the agenda of the moneyed power brokers behind the riots. Keeping certain segments of the population riled up, agitated, angry, feeling oppressed, and dependent on a particular savior party is one agenda likely in play. So it makes no sense to create a wider arena of violence. Letting them destroy their own areas and driving out whatever successful businesses are there is a way to suppress economic improvement, thus perpetuating the desired narrative. But Soros is another story. He makes his billions by creating anarchy and by toppling currencies. He probably stands to gain even greater wealth if he can trash the dollar.
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