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post #16 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 02:12 PM
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Re: Hoodwinked

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Can a person be pardoned of crimes that they have not been charged with?

Like a blanket pardon... "I absolve you of all your sins (crimes)"?
Yes, see ford's pardon of Nixon for an example.
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post #17 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 02:12 PM
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Re: Hoodwinked

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Can a person be pardoned of crimes that they have not been charged with?

Like a blanket pardon... "I absolve you of all your sins (crimes)"?
Only God can do that.

Maybe a delusional ministerial person. A mortal who gives himself such power.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....................

As I have come to understand this, Obama "can" do so. The "can" being full of worms. He [others] would have to cover all those laws broken and possibly broken.

A blanket pardon would be threadbare. Clever lawyers would pull at the many hanging threads, eventually unraveling it.

Short answer no, long answer, not likely. Too much work would be needed to be done by disinterested parties.

Obama, in a last grab at power may throw a writ against the wall, hoping no one will contest it. This may work. It could work, not in a legal sense, rather in a symbolic way.

People will throw up their hands, and say, "Why bother....she lost....B.H.O is done, is past history". "They" were crooks to the end. I told you so!

Trump will be castigated for doing nothing.

He better be prepared.......they will do everything they can to block him, demean him, to get him impeached.

It will be 4 to 8 years of smear and innuendos from the left. They are at War...will not give up!

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post #18 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 02:21 PM
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Re: Hoodwinked

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Originally Posted by EleGirl View Post
Can a person be pardoned of crimes that they have not been charged with?

Like a blanket pardon... "I absolve you of all your sins (crimes)"?
Yep. The Supreme Court ruled shortly after the civil war in Ex Parte Garland among other things that, "9. The power of pardon conferred by the Constitution upon the President is unlimited except in cases of impeachment. It extends to every offence known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment. The power is not subject to legislative control.

If you don't embody controversy, what you say will become just another part of the media driven culture of stifling thought and debate about issues.
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post #19 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 02:32 PM
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Re: Hoodwinked

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Can a person be pardoned of crimes that they have not been charged with?

Like a blanket pardon... "I absolve you of all your sins (crimes)"?
Well in Hillary's case, committed but not charged.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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post #20 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 04:06 PM
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Re: Hoodwinked

I have to laugh about the uproar over a potential pardon for HRC. Read about the Iran-Contra affair and all of the immunity granted and pardons issued by the first Bush after that and tell me that what HRC did re: the email server was worse than that.

The fact is that every administration has its high level screw ups, and conviction or not, the outgoing president lets them off the hook because they were part of the team.

If HRC did any of that people would be asking for her execution.
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post #21 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 04:15 PM
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Re: Hoodwinked

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Can a person be pardoned of crimes that they have not been charged with?

Like a blanket pardon... "I absolve you of all your sins (crimes)"?
Yes, Nixon was.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou
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post #22 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 08:41 PM
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Re: Hoodwinked

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Originally Posted by VermisciousKnid View Post
I have to laugh about the uproar over a potential pardon for HRC. Read about the Iran-Contra affair and all of the immunity granted and pardons issued by the first Bush after that and tell me that what HRC did re: the email server was worse than that.

The fact is that every administration has its high level screw ups, and conviction or not, the outgoing president lets them off the hook because they were part of the team.

If HRC did any of that people would be asking for her execution.
Yeah, I was going to mention that. Federal prosecutors had Casper Weinburger on perjury charges and both Reagan and Bush sr would have been in jail, except Bush pardoned him.

Barely a peep for that one.

The fact is you have to be careful with these prosecutions lest it bites you in the arse; Bush and Cheney could've been investigated for war crimes that got thousands of troops killed thanks to falsifying reasons to invade a country that had zero to do with 9/11 so Bush could settle a personal vendetta against the guy that tried to have daddy killed.

Yet the Democrats let that one go.

You have to be very careful when you start prosecuting political opponents.
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post #23 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 09:17 PM
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Re: Hoodwinked

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Originally Posted by EleGirl View Post
Can a person be pardoned of crimes that they have not been charged with?

Like a blanket pardon... "I absolve you of all your sins (crimes)"?
We all have to dream......a Pardon for Future Crime...that would be awesome. Like a permanent get out of jail free card.

IME...pardons are super specific.

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post #24 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 01:24 AM
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Cool Re: Hoodwinked

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Originally Posted by EleGirl View Post
Can a person be pardoned of crimes that they have not been charged with?

Like a blanket pardon... "I absolve you of all your sins (crimes)"?
Only if they have been summarily indicted, convicted, or are under serious threat of being indicted of a federal, state, or a local crime or misdemeanor!
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post #25 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 05:45 AM
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Re: Hoodwinked

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Yeah, I was going to mention that. Federal prosecutors had Casper Weinburger on perjury charges and both Reagan and Bush sr would have been in jail, except Bush pardoned him.

Barely a peep for that one.

The fact is you have to be careful with these prosecutions lest it bites you in the arse; Bush and Cheney could've been investigated for war crimes that got thousands of troops killed thanks to falsifying reasons to invade a country that had zero to do with 9/11 so Bush could settle a personal vendetta against the guy that tried to have daddy killed.

Yet the Democrats let that one go.

You have to be very careful when you start prosecuting political opponents.
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1. It's not the President's job to prosecute anyone.
2. Her crimes have nothing to do with Donald Trump. They are political corruption on the grandest scale.

My prediction is that he will let the DOJ continue their investigations, after replacing all of the compromised officials.


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post #26 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 06:08 AM
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Re: Hoodwinked

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Originally Posted by tech-novelist View Post
1. It's not the President's job to prosecute anyone.
2. Her crimes have nothing to do with Donald Trump. They are political corruption on the grandest scale.

My prediction is that he will let the DOJ continue their investigations, after replacing all of the compromised officials.
Replacing all of the old compromised officials with new compromised officials.

Holding with long established Republican and Democrat tradition, Obama will pardon so it won't make a difference
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post #27 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 07:01 AM
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Re: Hoodwinked

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Originally Posted by lifeistooshort View Post
Yeah, I was going to mention that. Federal prosecutors had Casper Weinburger on perjury charges and both Reagan and Bush sr would have been in jail, except Bush pardoned him.

Barely a peep for that one.

The fact is you have to be careful with these prosecutions lest it bites you in the arse; Bush and Cheney could've been investigated for war crimes that got thousands of troops killed thanks to falsifying reasons to invade a country that had zero to do with 9/11 so Bush could settle a personal vendetta against the guy that tried to have daddy killed.

Yet the Democrats let that one go.

You have to be very careful when you start prosecuting political opponents.
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Thank you. You're a lone voice of reason on this thread.
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post #28 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 01:16 PM
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Re: Hoodwinked

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Originally Posted by VermisciousKnid View Post
I have to laugh about the uproar over a potential pardon for HRC. Read about the Iran-Contra affair and all of the immunity granted and pardons issued by the first Bush after that and tell me that what HRC did re: the email server was worse than that.

The fact is that every administration has its high level screw ups, and conviction or not, the outgoing president lets them off the hook because they were part of the team.

If HRC did any of that people would be asking for her execution.
But what Hillary did with the server was not in service to the President and his agenda. Iran Contra and numerous other dirty events were done in service of what was thought to be the national interest and the furtherance of the President's policies. It doesn't make it legal. But what Hillary did was in order to avoid accountability and to hide likely illegal corruption. She did it for her own personal enrichment. It had nothing to do with furthering national security or Obama's foreign policy.

Chances are there was an Iran-Contra type illegal operation going on in Benghazi, too.

Several of our enemies almost certainly hacked in and obtained highly classified material which has and will endanger national security.

This wasn't some minor technical foul she committed by having her own unsecured server administered by unsecured IT personnel and accessed by her non-citizen maid to print out classified material.

Would you agree to pardon all who have been convicted under the relevant federal statutes who committed lesser infractions?
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post #29 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 01:34 PM
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Re: Hoodwinked

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Originally Posted by EleGirl View Post
Can a person be pardoned of crimes that they have not been charged with?

Like a blanket pardon... "I absolve you of all your sins (crimes)"?
Sadly yes.

Here's Nixon's pardon, as issued by President Gerold Ford:

Quote:
Now, Therefore, I, Gerald R. Ford, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.
There are no real guidelines for pardons, which is why I think we should just do away with them.

They can only be used on federal violations though. Anything state or local is still in. So say you break money-laundering law, while operating in New York... the POTUS could pardon the federal violations, but if New York has its own laws on the books... you're still subject to criminal investigation / prosecution under New York Law.

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post #30 of 44 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 05:26 PM
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Hoodwinked

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Originally Posted by Thor View Post
But what Hillary did with the server was not in service to the President and his agenda. Iran Contra and numerous other dirty events were done in service of what was thought to be the national interest and the furtherance of the President's policies. It doesn't make it legal. But what Hillary did was in order to avoid accountability and to hide likely illegal corruption. She did it for her own personal enrichment. It had nothing to do with furthering national security or Obama's foreign policy.

Chances are there was an Iran-Contra type illegal operation going on in Benghazi, too.

Several of our enemies almost certainly hacked in and obtained highly classified material which has and will endanger national security.

This wasn't some minor technical foul she committed by having her own unsecured server administered by unsecured IT personnel and accessed by her non-citizen maid to print out classified material.

Would you agree to pardon all who have been convicted under the relevant federal statutes who committed lesser infractions?
The FBI believes she did it for convenience not for personal gain. If there is proof that it was for personal gain then Comey is covering it up. Since we know there are leakers in the FBI that seems unlikely to be the case.

The parts I have bolded are flights of fancy. That is there are no facts to support them, only animus.

Earlier, MattMatt issued a statement that libelous statements would be deleted. Let's see how he handles this one when the target is HRC not Trump or Bannon.

As far as Iran-Contra, Congress had officially cut funding for the Contras, so what North, Secord, et al were doing was not in furtherance of US goals. Trading arms for hostages was also against US policy.

Last edited by VermisciousKnid; 11-23-2016 at 05:44 PM.
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