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post #1 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
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Flag Burning

Trump quoted: "Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!"

Trump: Burn the flag, go to jail.


Hillary Clinton co-sponsored bill to jail flag burners in 2005

So what do you think about this?


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post #2 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 10:14 AM
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Re: Flag Burning

Sending flag burners to jail bothers me.

I served, just as many others did, for peoples right to be free. Not just to be free as long as I agree with them.....even when I don't.

I think flag burning is disgusting, but if you criminalize it how long until any criticism of military or govt throws you on jail?

Remember how if you didn't support Bush running into Iraq you were branded unpatriotic? Imagine if that landed people in jail.

I could argue that one who never served calling a war hero who did a loser "for getting caught" deserves jail time.

But he has freedom of speech, even if it's nasty and ignorant.
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post #3 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 10:21 AM
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Re: Flag Burning

I'm not sure what burning a flag actually accomplishes, but, at the end of the day, it's just a symbol representing an ideal and a way of life, and that can't be burned by an idiot. Patriotism/nationalism is inside people.

The idea of jailing someone for this is beyond stupid, but I suspect we'll hear a lot of stupid things like that over the next 4 to 8 years.
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post #4 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 10:23 AM
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Re: Flag Burning

Burning the flag accomplished a bit more unneeded pollution. Some say it is a freedom of speech. Is burning trash in the roadway also a freedom of speech? No, you get a fine or jail time. So should it be for burning the flag.

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post #5 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 10:35 AM
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Re: Flag Burning

once again this is what concerns me, we have an individual who has been elected to our highest office, and has decided in his mind that flag burners should be jailed, over stepping the supreme decision. He doesn't have a grasp of his own job as president elect, that now he wants to do the job of the supreme court. The Supreme Court has ruled twice that destruction of the American flag is protected by the Constitution, specifically the First Amendment's protection of free speech, even if the act is unsettling. And what i find most disturbing about this is that the the people who did not want the 2nd amendment tampered with are all for tampering the first amendment. While i may personally despise anyone who would burn the flag, i would not put them in jail.
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post #6 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 10:36 AM
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Re: Flag Burning

US "Flag Code" 36 U.S.C. 173-178

§176. Respect for flag...

(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

Last edited by C3156; 11-30-2016 at 10:54 AM.
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post #7 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 10:39 AM
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Re: Flag Burning

I didn't remember that Hillary was a co-sponsor of the flag burning bill. Here is my opinion. The flag is a symbol of the nation which is ruled by law, not men. The law of the land is the constitution. The first amendment guarantees the right of freedom of speech. Specifically to protest the government (men). The Supreme Court has ruled that flag burning is a protected form of speech. I don't have any problem with any of that.

Interestingly I was involved (co organizer) of a public ceremony to retire 25 US Flags last summer. This is properly done by respectfully Burning them. We actually had to limit the number of flags because of weather conditions.

Trump is making the same kind of mistake here that Obama made in his first year. Getting involved in small things, picking the wrong fights, and not acting presidential. He could listen to advice a bit more.
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post #8 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 10:42 AM
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Re: Flag Burning

Legal or not, jail or not. Its wrong.

Laws are just words on paper, they do nothing and protect no one. Hence,

Laws wont protect the flag burner from me

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post #9 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Flag Burning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenote View Post
once again this is what concerns me, we have an individual who has been elected to our highest office, and has decided in his mind that flag burners should be jailed, over stepping the supreme decision. He doesn't have a grasp of his own job as president elect, that now he wants to do the job of the supreme court. The Supreme Court has ruled twice that destruction of the American flag is protected by the Constitution, specifically the First Amendment's protection of free speech, even if the act is unsettling. And what i find most disturbing about this is that the the people who did not want the 2nd amendment tampered with are all for tampering the first amendment. While i may personally despise anyone who would burn the flag, i would not put them in jail.
Yet Hillary even tried to change the Constitution to override the Supreme Court ruling on burning the flag.

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post #10 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 11:01 AM
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Re: Flag Burning

What if a few elected officials had become investors in privatised prisoners.

That means there is lot of motivation to crminalise just about everything.

Keep those prisons full, running at full utilisation and then rent out the prisoners, paying them $1 an hour while pocketing the rest a handlers fee.

Privatised prisons with lots of revenue streams......... got keep those criminal infractions coming.

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post #11 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 11:04 AM
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Re: Flag Burning

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Yet Hillary even tried to change the Constitution to override the Supreme Court ruling on burning the flag.
I find it concerning how much people on both sides are willing to do this. What it comes down to is a heresy law, where we make it illegal to disrespect Government. [God]

I thought that @Yeswecan makes the best case for it though. Completely side-step the "speech" aspect, and you've got a case you can fight for. I would be very concerned if a large number of people started making that case.
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post #12 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 11:19 AM
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Re: Flag Burning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenote View Post
once again this is what concerns me, we have an individual who has been elected to our highest office, and has decided in his mind that flag burners should be jailed, over stepping the supreme decision. He doesn't have a grasp of his own job as president elect, that now he wants to do the job of the supreme court. The Supreme Court has ruled twice that destruction of the American flag is protected by the Constitution, specifically the First Amendment's protection of free speech, even if the act is unsettling. And what i find most disturbing about this is that the the people who did not want the 2nd amendment tampered with are all for tampering the first amendment. While i may personally despise anyone who would burn the flag, i would not put them in jail.
Understand the Supreme Court can be wrong. How can burning a flag in the streets be freedom of speech but burning trash a fineable offense? Because one represents something the other is just trash? If one is burning the flag, the flag and what it represents is then seen as trash by the person who lit the flag on fire. What is occurring is a fire being set in places that have laws concerning burning anything. Does not matter what one is burning. There should be fines for the fire being set. If fine not paid jail time.

Our supreme court hard at work. Term limits please:


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Last edited by Yeswecan; 11-30-2016 at 11:25 AM.
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post #13 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 11:21 AM
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Re: Flag Burning

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Originally Posted by Kivlor View Post
I find it concerning how much people on both sides are willing to do this. What it comes down to is a heresy law, where we make it illegal to disrespect Government. [God]

I thought that @Yeswecan makes the best case for it though. Completely side-step the "speech" aspect, and you've got a case you can fight for. I would be very concerned if a large number of people started making that case.
There are laws for open burning of anything. Try lighting up a flag in drought ridden CA and see how it works out for that individual. Try lighting up a trash can on the mall in DC. I can assure anyone that Capitol police will not just stand by and say it is a freedom of speech. It is a fire, plain and simple.

“You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.”
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post #14 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 11:51 AM
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Re: Flag Burning

I think there should be a fine. In other countries (Mexico for example) if you disrespect your nations flag, there are severe consequences.
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post #15 of 65 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 11:57 AM
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Re: Flag Burning

I think Trump has more important matters to deal with.
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