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post #31 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 03:31 PM
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Re: So...

Now a company only has to threaten to move abroad and the government will come running with tax breaks? I'm curious how all of this will play out.

I like the idea of federal contracts being limited to American manufacturing. If you move to Mexico you kiss the federal money goodbye and one of your domestic competitors gets the contract instead.

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post #32 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 04:07 PM
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Re: So...

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Now a company only has to threaten to move abroad and the government will come running with tax breaks? I'm curious how all of this will play out.

I like the idea of federal contracts being limited to American manufacturing. If you move to Mexico you kiss the federal money goodbye and one of your domestic competitors gets the contract instead.
This is my concern as well. It encourages companies to threaten to leave.

That said, I am going to point out again that the $7,000,000 was already on the table. Trump just convinced them to take it. Which, as far as I can tell indicates 1 of 3 things: A) He offered them something else that is remaining unspoken; B) He threatened them into submission C) He was able to convince them the move was a bad idea.

I'm betting on A or B.

Although I'm opposed to government bribing of companies, from a game-playing perspective this was an excellent move on Trump's part. He specifically said back ~June that he would keep Carrier here. This accomplishes several things: 1) It is a low-hanging fruit as far as campaign promises, building his credibility to his base; 2) Those families affected will sing his praises for all time, and will definitely be trying to convince more people to support him when he takes office; 3) Forces the Legacy Media actually oppose 1,000 Americans keeping their jobs calling it a bad thing--proving to those on the right they are evil, and making anyone in the middle look at them as crazy; 4) It's an opportunity to rub Obama et als noses in their rhetoric that he had no plan and couldn't save these jobs--showing further they are out of touch with the Heartland.

Plus: "Under Budget, Ahead of Schedule"
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post #33 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 04:38 PM
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Re: So...

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So...

Obama spent nearly a trillion on stimulus package with no shovel ready jobs to show for it.
That is not what @MarriedDude said the other day. He said his workers made $44 an hour on projects paid for by that stimulus money.

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post #34 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 05:20 PM
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Re: So...

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That is not what @MarriedDude said the other day. He said his workers made $44 an hour on projects paid for by that stimulus money.
at least that

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post #35 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 05:26 PM
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Re: So...

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at least that
More on some projects?

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post #36 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 05:28 PM
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Re: So...

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This is my concern as well. It encourages companies to threaten to leave.

That said, I am going to point out again that the $7,000,000 was already on the table. Trump just convinced them to take it. Which, as far as I can tell indicates 1 of 3 things: A) He offered them something else that is remaining unspoken; B) He threatened them into submission C) He was able to convince them the move was a bad idea.

I'm betting on A or B.

Although I'm opposed to government bribing of companies, from a game-playing perspective this was an excellent move on Trump's part. He specifically said back ~June that he would keep Carrier here. This accomplishes several things: 1) It is a low-hanging fruit as far as campaign promises, building his credibility to his base; 2) Those families affected will sing his praises for all time, and will definitely be trying to convince more people to support him when he takes office; 3) Forces the Legacy Media actually oppose 1,000 Americans keeping their jobs calling it a bad thing--proving to those on the right they are evil, and making anyone in the middle look at them as crazy; 4) It's an opportunity to rub Obama et als noses in their rhetoric that he had no plan and couldn't save these jobs--showing further they are out of touch with the Heartland.

Plus: "Under Budget, Ahead of Schedule"
I wonder if the current Governor of Indiana had anything to do with it.

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post #37 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 06:11 PM
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Re: So...

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More on some projects?
Just started one called the "SRE" -it's a secure weapons holding & Processing Facility. We are installing Static Dissipative Systems...

Wage :

Base =67.00
fringe=26.00

total =$93.00 per Hour

The project started in 2011 -almost finished

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Screaming soul sent out to die,
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Last edited by MarriedDude; 12-02-2016 at 06:11 PM. Reason: timeline
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post #38 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 06:27 PM
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Re: So...

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That is not what @MarriedDude said the other day. He said his workers made $44 an hour on projects paid for by that stimulus money.
$44 per hour? To do what exactly? That is over $91,000 per year without overtime. I would like to know what positions earned such a substantial amount of money.

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post #39 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 06:29 PM
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Re: So...

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Just started one called the "SRE" -it's a secure weapons holding & Processing Facility. We are installing Static Dissipative Systems...

Wage :

Base =67.00
fringe=26.00

total =$93.00 per Hour

The project started in 2011 -almost finished
What positions on the site are making that kind of money?

Conversely, how much would a parallel position make on a non-stimulus project?

Or is this a highly specialized position?

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post #40 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 06:47 PM
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Re: So...

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What positions on the site are making that kind of money?

Conversely, how much would a parallel position make on a non-stimulus project?

Or is this a highly specialized position?
Wet Trowel Installation Trade. Cementitious Urethane with Ground Copper.

Non-Stim / Non-Gov't project...averages about 40/hr for Leads...20 for helpers


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post #41 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 02:44 AM
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Re: So...

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at least that
Were those jobs new hires or preexisting ones?
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post #42 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 10:25 AM
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Re: So...

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Were those jobs new hires or preexisting ones?
Both...we have a very very hard time finding people. Most dont make it longer than a month.

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post #43 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 10:27 AM
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Re: So...

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Both...we have a very very hard time finding people. Most dont make it longer than a month.
Hypothetically, had there been no stimulus money, what would have happened?
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post #44 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 10:42 AM
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Re: So...

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Hypothetically, had there been no stimulus money, what would have happened?
The project would have continued regardless. It had already been designed (A/E expense already incurred); it had already been Pre-Bid -it was over-budget -because of ARRA it went forward....otherwise it would have been revised to reduce costs / put into the next budget cycle to try to get more $$$ /or switched to a reverse bidding project or a Design Build with an NTE;

The ARRA allowed MANY projects to go forward right away....the vast majority of gov't projects take several years from concept to bidding...then depending upon the size...several years to build.

For example...I just received my subcontract for a small infrastructure project Friday....I had originally bid the project in 2012.

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Raked by machine gun fire.
Screaming soul sent out to die,
Living mandatory suicide.
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post #45 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 10:48 AM
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Re: So...

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The project would have continued regardless. It had already been designed (A/E expense already incurred); it had already been Pre-Bid -it was over-budget -because of ARRA it went forward....otherwise it would have been revised to reduce costs / put into the next budget cycle to try to get more $$$ /or switched to a reverse bidding project or a Design Build with an NTE;

The ARRA allowed MANY projects to go forward right away....the vast majority of gov't projects take several years from concept to bidding...then depending upon the size...several years to build.

For example...I just received my subcontract for a small infrastructure project Friday....I had originally bid the project in 2012.
One last question: were any of the jobs in danger of being terminated if there were no stimulus money? People just quit or don't stay long, like you said. It sounds like every company who could, applied for stimulus money regardless if they needed it or not. It was "free" money so why not get some.
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