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post #16 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 09:50 PM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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Can we PLEASE give Texas back to Mexico?

@farsidejunky

Planned Parenthood repurposes human tissue for research, just like every single hospital and lab does. Every time your blood is drawn, a biopsy taken, Pap tests, etc, left over tissue is sold to research. And there is almost always left over tissue and blood. None of the tissues left over ever get disposed of unless there is no other research that is in need of tissue to study. Colleges, universities, drug companies....they all buy left over human tissue. This is not a money making endeavor. A fee is collected to offset the cost of containing, storing and sending left over blood and or human tissue.

So if Texas is going to make these stupid ass laws, with no basis is actual science, then be prepared to have to pay for burial services for all left over human tissue!

As usual, this law will be struck down after the state and the federal government pays to have the case go all the way through the appeals process.
Repurposes.

A change in adjective makes it no less disgusting, but thank you for the talking points.


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post #17 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 11:05 PM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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Not everyone agrees with the sentiment these are children, so this question would be out context with them to answer.
Whatever your preferred description...the question remains

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post #18 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 11:11 PM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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What is your take on the Planned Parenthood...selling of tissue deal? I haven't heard a ton about it...but it doesn't sound very ethical (not that I'm an expert)
Just as I already said, every time your blood is drawn there is left over blood after the testing has taken place. Many college level science classes study and learn using human blood and human tissue. They buy this stuff from labs, hospitals, and clinics. Every hospital does it, every lab does it. They always have.

The left over human tissue after a miscarriage (after so many weeks gestation) is also sold to colleges, universities and research facilities. It's always been this way because medical science learning requires examination and further understanding of cells, viruses, bacteria, molds...etc.

This is nothing new folks. It's like the turn of the 20th century when medical students had to hide the fact that they cut up dead humans to learn about the human body. That they took a dead convict who died via lethal injection, froze his body, used a laser to slice his frozen body into tissue thin slices and that was the basis of the MRI. It's how we learn. Macabre? maybe. Necessary? absolutely.


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"Health department officials later clarified that the rules won’t apply to abortions or miscarriages that happen at home, the Texas Tribune reported, and that no birth or death certificates will have to be issued. The regulations apply to hospitals, abortion clinics, and other health care facilities, but not individual women. "
So the newest trick is to force abortion providers to charge thousands of dollars to cover the cost cremation and or burial. My god can they get any stupider? Of course they can it's Texas!

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Originally Posted by Kivlor View Post
Well, yes and no.

I'm not on the organ donor / cadaver donor lists for a reason. None of my surgeon friends are on it, and they don't recommend it either. Because sometimes, when you're on the table and a surgeon sees you're on the list... oops... we just couldn't save that one. But fortunately, he'll be used as spare parts for all these other people! Good News!

Or at least those are the kind of horror stories I've heard from my more well-traveled surgeon friends...
That is absolutely ridiculous! Just plain nonsense! You made that up. There is no way this happens. The truth is actually the reverse. You have to specifically ask the doctor to stop trying, you have to state in writing that you don't want any more medical intervention.

My sister died almost exactly 1 year ago after a 4 year struggle with stage IV kidney cancer. Towards the end, even though she had already inacted her DNR, I had to tell the doctor to stop acting like there is hope. She couldn't walk, couldn't feed herself, couldn't bath or dress herself and yet I had to call in hospice to get the doc to stop. She was an organ donor, but the cancer disallowed that. She donated her body to science, as did my brother who died 5 years ago from ALS.

- Your statement is wrong, foolish and actually very harmful. Harmful to people like me who have walked beside the body bag as the hearse from the medical board comes to pick them up. Harmful to people who might be considering a final gift to others via organ or body donation.

I hope very much you walk back what you said, if so I'll gladly delete this post.

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Last edited by Anon Pink; 12-03-2016 at 07:52 AM. Reason: I accidently modified this post. So I put it back to the orginal wording. So very sorry :(
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post #19 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 11:15 PM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
Interesting that you all it human tissue. Not zygote, or embryo. Are you saying the tissue came from a human being?

Yes, the tissue was harvested from a human being, it therefor is human tissue. Unless it was foreign matter lodged in the human tissue.

I was kind of curious about what my rib looked like with the tumor and asked the doc to take a picture before he sent it to the lab. He didn't, I have since seen other pictures of bone tumors, really glad he didn't humor me.

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post #20 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 11:36 PM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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That is absolutely ridiculous! Just plain nonsense! You made that up. There is no way this happens. The truth is actually the reverse. You have to specifically ask the doctor to stop trying, you have to state in writing that you don't want any more medical intervention.

My sister died almost exactly 1 year ago after a 4 year struggle with stage IV kidney cancer. Towards the end, even though she had already inacted her DNR, I had to tell the doctor to stop acting like there is hope. She couldn't walk, couldn't feed herself, couldn't bath or dress herself and yet I had to call in hospice to get the doc to stop. She was an organ donor, but the cancer disallowed that. She donated her body to science, as did my brother who died 5 years ago from ALS.

Your statement is wrong, foolish and actually very harmful. Harmful to people like me who have walked beside the body bag as the hearse from the medical board comes to pick them up. Harmful to people who might be considering a final gift to others via organ or body donation.

I hope very much you walk back what you said, if so I'll gladly delete this post.
Nope. Just because you have an emotional freakout does not oblige me to lie to make you feel good.

I have many friends that are surgeons. One of my closest friends owned (and eventually sold to a hospital) a regional neurosurgery center, and I know all of the surgeons that worked with her then and those that work with her now. Not a one of them is on the donor list for that reason. They all say it happens, but that it's rare. But they don't want to be the rarity.

You're free to continue your emotional outbursts. Carry on.

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post #21 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 12:17 AM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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Originally Posted by Anon Pink View Post
Yes, the tissue was harvested from a human being, it therefor is human tissue. Unless it was foreign matter lodged in the human tissue.

I was kind of curious about what my rib looked like with the tumor and asked the doc to take a picture before he sent it to the lab. He didn't, I have since seen other pictures of bone tumors, really glad he didn't humor me.
Is it a human being when it is terminated?
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post #22 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 12:37 AM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

.

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post #23 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 12:56 AM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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"Health department officials later clarified that the rules won’t apply to abortions or miscarriages that happen at home, the Texas Tribune reported, and that no birth or death certificates will have to be issued. The regulations apply to hospitals, abortion clinics, and other health care facilities, but not individual women. "
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So the newest trick is to force abortion providers to charge thousands of dollars to cover the cost cremation and or burial. My god can they get any stupider? Of course they can it's Texas!
From what I read, the law gives a long list of medical and research waste from animals and humans that has to be disposed in particular ways, cremation (or incineration) and burial are only two of the ways that they can be disposed of.

The law is not talking about the kind of cremation that happens when an adult dies. This is not an expensive cremation where the body of one individual is burned to ashes. It’s not a situation where there is a grave in a grave yard for one aborted fetus.

From what I understand, the law is saying that two of the ways that institutions can dispose of waste from animals and humans is to incinerate it or bury it under specific conditions. So an institution can take a lot of this material and burn it all at once… or bury it all at once. So they can take buckets of body parts, tissue, fetuses, bulk blood, etc. and burn it all at once. The estimated cost of one hospital/clinic is $450 a year.


I really don’t think that we should be putting the material listed in the below link down our suage system or in landfills. So how should we dispose of it?


If I am wrong, show me in the law, not some article, but in the law where it states that a cremation/burial has to be held for each fetus independently.

Link to Texas Law

As I stated in an earlier post, the hospital that I was in when I lost my twins in 1985 already had facilities to incinerate things like human organs, tissue and fetuses. I’ll bet that most hospitals do already.

How do abortion clinics dispose of fetuses right now? I’ve read that a lot of them just put them down a garbage disposal so that they go into the sewage system. Is that ok?

Last edited by EleGirl; 12-03-2016 at 01:02 AM.
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post #24 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 03:02 AM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

As much as some people thinks this is morbid, we learn from the dead. The advancements in science owe it's contributions to studying the dead whether human or animal. IMHO, this is just a way to guilt/shame women who has to make a very difficult, life altering decision.

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post #25 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 06:05 AM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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If I am wrong, show me in the law, not some article, but in the law where it states that a cremation/burial has to be held for each fetus independently.
You want to see explicitly where the law says that women will have to pay for those services. However, when it comes to illegals in your state, just the fact they can get driving licences automatically means to you that they can register to vote.

Do you think it would be possible to use the same logic in this case?


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post #26 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 07:36 AM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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It's a shaming tactic. It's great when you can't legislate what you want, so you legislate guilt. Gtfo with that
Based on some of the women I've known that had abortions, nothing anybody could do would shame them (except maybe publishing one of their bad selfies). I know one who had at least two abortions while her old man was deployed during the Iraq war.
What I have trouble reconciling regarding the argument that the fetus in not a child (a live human) is that if a drunk driver would run down and kills a pregnant woman on her way to get an abortion, the driver would be charged with, among other things, two counts of vehicular homicide.

If you don't embody controversy, what you say will become just another part of the media driven culture of stifling thought and debate about issues.
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post #27 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 07:42 AM
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Pink, it doesn't cost thousands of dollars for cremation of fetus. My dad just died and was cremated. It does not cost that much for the actual cremation.

The law's purpose is to not have the babies thrown out in the trash.

If the mom wants to donate the tissue, that should be her right. If you think the hospital does not make a profit on that you are dead wrong. Officially they might just cover costs but tgey lump a lot of fixed costs into the calculation.

I am a potential organ donor. My wife is alive because of one. The surgeon told ne only about 1 or 2 percent of deaths can be organ donors. Basically you have to be alive but brain dead.
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post #28 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 08:49 AM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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You want to see explicitly where the law says that women will have to pay for those services.
Of course I want to see what the law says. Why wouldn't anyone want to see what the law says, instead of just going by what biased news sources state. I always look up the laws for that reason when there is a discussion.

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However, when it comes to illegals in your state, just the fact they can get driving licences automatically means to you that they can register to vote.
You see, I did look up the laws for both driver's license and voter registration. I also keep up with things that happen in my state. Spot (small sample) audits of registered voters in NM have shown that of illegal immigrants have indeed voted in New Mexico. Speculation by the SOS is that the numbers are in the thousands.

Other states have found similar results of audits on their registered voters.

Foreign Nationals Fraudulently Voted in New Mexico Elections, State Official Says | Fox News

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Do you think it would be possible to use the same logic in this case?
I'm not sure why you are being hostile to me.

It amazes me how some people get all bent out of shape when someone wants to actually read the law, look at the actual language and decide for themselves what laws actually says.
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post #29 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 09:16 AM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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Fantastic! Thanks for being a typical representation of a male who is wrong. When in confronted, hit back by saying she's too emotional.

You're wrong. You're just plain wrong and I think you're lying just to be contrary.
I wasn't aware that only women are capable of emotions and irrationality.

What does that say about your thought process? What does it say about your motivations, if the first thing you jump to is accusations of sexism?

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post #30 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 09:55 AM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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Of course I want to see what the law says. Why wouldn't anyone want to see what the law says, instead of just going by what biased news sources state. I always look up the laws for that reason when there is a discussion.



You see, I did look up the laws for both driver's license and voter registration. I also keep up with things that happen in my state. Spot (small sample) audits of registered voters in NM have shown that of illegal immigrants have indeed voted in New Mexico. Speculation by the SOS is that the numbers are in the thousands.

Other states have found similar results of audits on their registered voters.

Foreign Nationals Fraudulently Voted in New Mexico Elections, State Official Says | Fox News



I'm not sure why you are being hostile to me.

It amazes me how some people get all bent out of shape when someone wants to actually read the law, look at the actual language and decide for themselves what laws actually says.
Because I disagree with you and point out what I see as inconsistencies, I am hostile to you?

No, I simply disagree with you.

This is a discussion of ideas, Ele, not about hostility. I read, like most, and I am struck by the inconsistencies. You are welcome to ignore what I am writing, but I would like to express it the way I see it.

You are quick to dismiss concerns from some people, in this case the true intentions of this law, by sticking to what the text says. Yet on the illegals you are quick to extrapolate what some small sample audits mean for the whole voting process.

I do not necessarily disagree with the extrapolation and would be ready to believe it, if further evidence confirmed it. But in the case of the Texas law, I believe the folks with concerns about it have reasons to be, considering the history in that state.

That is all I am saying.

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