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post #46 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 02:09 PM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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It cost the state of Arizona almost $800,000 last year to pay overtime for state elections officials to go through voter registartion forms to ensure that HisPanic voters were eligible to vote.

$800,000 fvcking thousand dollars... that could have been spent on education, infrastructure...

No, we had to hire a full time staff just to go through and weed out the frauds and phonies trying to derail our electoral system. I wonder what the wonderful government of Mexico would have done to me if I had gone down there and fraudulently attempted to vote in a Mexican election? I'd probably be eating moldy tortillas in a Sinaloa prison...

Are undocumented immigrants voting illegally in Arizona?
It is not the point of the thread, but I will briefly respond.

Please read the article you linked. In bold you can read: "Examples of voter fraud are rare"

I have met a few illegals. The last thing they want is to be noticed. So why would they register to vote?

$800,000 spent on this issue is not the fault of illegals, but of the right wingers that have no better thing to do but to further exploit the fear of already very fearful Americans.


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post #47 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 03:06 PM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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It is not the point of the thread, but I will briefly respond.



Please read the article you linked. In bold you can read: "Examples of voter fraud are rare"



I have met a few illegals. The last thing they want is to be noticed. So why would they register to vote?



$800,000 spent on this issue is not the fault of illegals, but of the right wingers that have no better thing to do but to further exploit the fear of already very fearful Americans.


The incentive is being paid to illegally votes.

And ensuring our laws are followed had nothing to do with "right wingers". If our border laws were enforced we wouldn't have this problem.
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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post #49 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 05:46 PM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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Yeah right on man. Your anecdote represents everyone. I knew this Polish guy who was dumb and this Italian guy who grabbed his balls all the time. I got this Irish buddy who drinks. We all know what that means, right?
Come on my man, you've known some of these chicks. Probably why you're for abortions is because you figured you didn't want to pay for a lifetime of worth of tickets because you got a couple of free rides. She makes one trip to the clinic and your problem is solved. I don't blame you dawg.

If you don't embody controversy, what you say will become just another part of the media driven culture of stifling thought and debate about issues.
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post #50 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 05:58 PM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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I just looked up the price in my state, cheapest cost is just under $1,000. If hospitals and clinics have to arrange for private incineration, or cremation, of aborted remains the cost of abortion will be passed on to the consumer. My health insurance covers abortion meds, but not the elective procedure. They will reimburse the cost of the med, abortion pill, if the procedure is elected, which means about $50.00 is covered by insurance, which means the cost of abortion went from about $350 to 1,350.

Aborted remains have never been "thrown in the trash" because hospitals and clinics have always had to incinerate unneeded human blood, waste and tissue.

The bottom line is that planned parenthood is being accused or profiting off the remains of aborted fetuses. Which suggests that planned parenthood pushes abortions in order to make money from selling the remains. Which is ludicrous.
That is retail.

Thr price is always lower in business to business.

However, that likely still increases the price by $500, so your point has validity.

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post #51 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 05:59 PM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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Come on my man, you've known some of these chicks. Probably why you're for abortions is because you figured you didn't want to pay for a lifetime of worth of tickets because you got a couple of free rides. She makes one trip to the clinic and your problem is solved. I don't blame you dawg.
So men can only support women's reproductive rights if they "got a couple of free rides." And ... there we go.
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post #52 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 06:10 PM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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What I have trouble reconciling regarding the argument that the fetus in not a child (a live human) is that if a drunk driver would run down and kills a pregnant woman on her way to get an abortion, the driver would be charged with, among other things, two counts of vehicular homicide
I've covered this in multiple threads this fallacy that being pregnant and killed/injured automatically makes things a double homicide/murder attempt. Each state (at least in the United States) makes their decision on this, any here's a wide variance in this.

In Texas, yes, causing the purposeful death of a fetus from any time is technically illegal, hence their abortion stance.

In comparison, in Wisconsin, to be charged with the death of a newborn baby, it has to be proven the child was born alive and breathed. So no, killing a pregnant woman here (which happens enough, I'd imagine given our state's unofficial pastime drunk driving) doesn't get you two counts of anything.

So ... there's no great universal truth to the idea because of double homicide laws that proves universal agreement to the idea a fetus is a live human, as there's no universal truth to those laws being on the books.
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post #53 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 06:25 PM
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Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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Originally Posted by farsidejunky View Post
That is retail.

Thr price is always lower in business to business.

However, that likely still increases the price by $500, so your point has validity.


Maybe $100 or less. Bulk discount.
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post #54 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 06:29 PM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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Maybe $100 or less. Bulk discount.
Fair point. Communal versus private cremations.

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post #55 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 06:44 PM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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Originally Posted by Duguesclin View Post
Because I disagree with you and point out what I see as inconsistencies, I am hostile to you?

No, I simply disagree with you.

This is a discussion of ideas, Ele, not about hostility. I read, like most, and I am struck by the inconsistencies. You are welcome to ignore what I am writing, but I would like to express it the way I see it.

You are quick to dismiss concerns from some people, in this case the true intentions of this law, by sticking to what the text says. Yet on the illegals you are quick to extrapolate what some small sample audits mean for the whole voting process.

I do not necessarily disagree with the extrapolation and would be ready to believe it, if further evidence confirmed it. But in the case of the Texas law, I believe the folks with concerns about it have reasons to be, considering the history in that state.

That is all I am saying.
The inconsistency you claim does not exist its your fabrication and I dont appreciate that fabrication.

You seem to think that you know what I think about the law and what is going on. YOU DO NOT as I have yet to give an opinion.

Instead, Im trying to figure out which words in the law would lead to women or hospitals/clinics having to pay for cremation and/or burial of a fetus at the tune of a $1,000 or more per fetus. I cannot find it. So Im simply asking for help understanding why people are upset.

Im not quick to dismiss anyones concern. Ive been asking for someone to show me the language in the law that is problematic.

If the law does indeed say that each fetus must be created/buried at a huge cost, $1,000 or more, I would object to the law. But all I see are words that say that an aborted fetus must be disposed of in the same way as blood, organs, and other human tissue.

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post #56 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 06:49 PM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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Originally Posted by Anon Pink View Post
I just looked up the price in my state, cheapest cost is just under $1,000. If hospitals and clinics have to arrange for private incineration, or cremation, of aborted remains the cost of abortion will be passed on to the consumer. My health insurance covers abortion meds, but not the elective procedure. They will reimburse the cost of the med, abortion pill, if the procedure is elected, which means about $50.00 is covered by insurance, which means the cost of abortion went from about $350 to 1,350.

Aborted remains have never been "thrown in the trash" because hospitals and clinics have always had to incinerate unneeded human blood, waste and tissue.

The bottom line is that planned parenthood is being accused or profiting off the remains of aborted fetuses. Which suggests that planned parenthood pushes abortions in order to make money from selling the remains. Which is ludicrous.
Where does the law say that hospitals and clinics have to arrange for private incineration/cremation of aborted remains.

Can anyone show me the paragraph of the law that states this? I do not see it.
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post #57 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 06:59 PM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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But all I see are words that say that an aborted fetus must be disposed of in the same way as blood, organs, and other human tissue.
I suppose then my question would be - is this actually not happening? Is there actually evidence this isn't happening now?
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post #58 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 07:44 PM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

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But all I see are words that say that an aborted fetus must be disposed of in the same way as blood, organs, and other human tissue.
I suppose then my question would be - is this actually not happening? Is there actually evidence this isn't happening now?
Yes, this has been the law for a long time apparently. The law does not only address fetuses. It addresses a long list of many times of waste.

This is a law that has been in place for decades. Every few years they update it to fit new methods and technologies. Here is what the website says are the dates when the law was modified.

The provisions of this 1.132 adopted to be effective April 4, 1989, 14 TexReg 1457; amended to be effective November 21, 1991, 16 TexReg 6482; amended to be effective December 21, 1994, 19 TexReg 9599.

So I don't understand what the issue is.
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post #59 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 07:53 PM
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Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

This is not an anti abortion rule. It is a public health rule.

The article is an agenda driven liberal CNN spin to incite people about the abort issue so that they click on the article. This generates ad revenue for them.

Same stupid tactic as the ads I see "Hot women in your area want sex now".

The rule covers all medical aspects, including my wife's old organ after her transplant.

We were not charged $1000 for the disposal.

Those crying that this will limit or deny abort are just trying to whip up their base to get donations.

This rule does not limit or deny any medical procedure since every procedure is covered by this rule.
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post #60 of 122 (permalink) Old 12-03-2016, 07:53 PM
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Re: Texas law on cremating or burying fetuses

OK, so I found some links that make up the actual law/rules. Here are the three parts that work together.

================================================== ====
RULE 1.132 Definitions
================================================== ====
RULE 1.133 Scope, Covering Exemptions and Minimum Parametric Standards for Waste Treatment Technologies Previously Approved by the Texas Department of Health
================================================== ====
RULE 1.136 Approved Methods of Treatment and Disposition
================================================== ====


{This defines what type of waste fetuses fall under. They are "pathological waste".}

RULE 1.132 Defines Pathological waste as follows

(40) Pathological waste--Pathological waste includes but is not limited to:
(A) human materials removed during surgery, labor and delivery, autopsy, embalming, or biopsy, including:
(i) body parts;
(ii) tissues or fetuses;
(iii) organs; and
(iv) bulk blood and body fluids;
(B) products of spontaneous or induced human abortions, regardless of the period of gestation, including:
(i) body parts;
(ii) tissues or fetuses;
(iii) organs; and
(iv) bulk blood and body fluids;
(C) laboratory specimens of blood and tissue after completion of laboratory examination; and
(D) anatomical remains.

All subcategories of pathological waste, unless otherwise exempted, must be treated and disposed of in accordance with 1.136 of this title (relating to Approved Methods of Treatment and Disposition).



{Paragraph 4 of Rule 1.136 lists the many acceptable methods of treatment and disposal. Note that not one of them say that a fetus must be created or have a burial. Instead they are handled like any other pathological waste. }

RULE 1.136 Approved Methods of Treatment and Disposition

(4) Pathological waste. Pathological waste shall be subjected to one of the following methods of treatment and disposal.
(A) Human materials removed during surgery, labor and delivery, autopsy, embalming, or biopsy shall be subjected to one of the following methods of treatment and disposal:
(i) body parts:
(I) interment;
(II) incineration followed by deposition of the residue in a sanitary landfill;
(III) steam disinfection followed by interment;
(IV) moist heat disinfection, provided that the grinding/shredding renders the item as unrecognizable, followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(V) chlorine disinfection/maceration, provided that the grinding/shredding renders the item as unrecognizable, followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill; or
(VI) an approved alternate treatment process, provided that the process renders the item as unrecognizable, followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(ii) tissues or fetuses:
(I) incineration followed by deposition of the residue in a sanitary landfill;
(II) grinding and discharging to a sanitary sewer system;
(III) interment;
(IV) steam disinfection followed by interment;
(V) moist heat disinfection followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(VI) chlorine disinfection/maceration followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill; or
(VII) an approved alternate treatment process, provided that the process renders the item as unrecognizable, followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(iii) organs:
(I) incineration followed by deposition of the residue in a sanitary landfill;
(II) grinding and discharging to a sanitary sewer system;
(III) interment;
(IV) steam disinfection followed by interment;
(V) moist heat disinfection followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(VI) chlorine disinfection/maceration followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill; or
(VII) an approved alternate treatment process, provided that the process renders the item as unrecognizable, followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(iv) bulk human blood and bulk human body fluids removed during surgery, labor and delivery, autopsy, embalming, or biopsy:
(I) discharging into a sanitary sewer system;
(II) steam disinfection followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(III) incineration followed by deposition of the residue in a sanitary landfill;
(IV) thermal inactivation followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(V) thermal inactivation followed by grinding and discharging into a sanitary sewer system;
(VI) chemical disinfection followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(VII) chemical disinfection followed by grinding and discharging into a sanitary sewer system;
(VIII) moist heat disinfection followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(IX) chlorine disinfection/maceration followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill; or
(X) an approved alternate treatment process, provided that the process renders the item as unrecognizable, followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill.
(B) The products of spontaneous or induced human abortion shall be subjected to one of the following methods of treatment and disposal:
(i) body parts, tissues, or organs regardless of the period of gestation:
(I) grinding and discharging to a sanitary sewer system;
(II) incineration followed by deposition of the residue in a sanitary landfill;
(III) steam disinfection followed by interment;
(IV) interment;
(V) moist heat disinfection followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(VI) chlorine disinfection/maceration followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill; or
(VII) an approved alternate treatment process, provided that the process renders the item as unrecognizable, followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(ii) blood and body fluids:
(I) discharging into a sanitary sewer system;
(II) steam disinfection followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(III) incineration followed by deposition of the residue in a sanitary landfill;
(IV) thermal inactivation followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(V) thermal inactivation followed by grinding and discharging into a sanitary sewer system;
(VI) chemical disinfection followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(VII) chemical disinfection followed by grinding and discharging into a sanitary sewer system;
(VIII) moist heat disinfection followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(IX) chlorine disinfection/maceration followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill; or
(X) an approved alternate treatment process, provided that the process renders the item as unrecognizable, followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill.
(C) Discarded laboratory specimens of blood and/or tissues shall be subjected to one of the following methods of treatment and disposal:
(i) grinding and discharging into a sanitary sewer system;
(ii) steam disinfection followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(iii) steam disinfection followed by grinding and discharging into a sanitary sewer system;
(iv) incineration followed by deposition of the residue in a sanitary landfill;
(v) moist heat disinfection followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(vi) chlorine disinfection/maceration followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill; or
(vii) an approved alternate treatment process, provided that the process renders the item as unrecognizable, followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill.
(D) Anatomical remains shall be subjected to one of the following methods of treatment and disposal:
(i) interment;
(ii) incineration followed by interment; or
(iii) steam disinfection followed by interment.
(5) Sharps.
(A) All discarded unused sharps shall be disposed of in accordance with Title 30, Texas Administrative Code, Chapter 330.
(B) Contaminated sharps shall be subjected to one of the following methods of treatment and disposal.
(i) Hypodermic needles, and hypodermic syringes with attached needles, shall be subjected to one of the following methods of treatment and disposal:
(I) chemical disinfection, and if the item can cause puncture wounds, placement in a puncture-resistant, leak-proof container followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(II) steam disinfection, and if the item can cause puncture wounds, placement in a puncture-resistant container followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(III) incineration, and if the item can cause puncture wounds, placement in a puncture-resistant container followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(IV) encapsulation in a matrix which will solidify and significantly reduce the possibility of puncture wounds followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(V) moist heat disinfection followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(VI) chlorine disinfection/maceration followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill; or
(VII) an approved alternate treatment process, provided that the process renders the item as unrecognizable and can no longer cause puncture wounds, followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill.
(ii) Razor blades, disposable razors, and disposable scissors used in surgery, labor and delivery, or other medical procedures; and scalpel blades shall be subjected to one of the following methods of treatment and disposal:
(I) chemical disinfection, and if the item can cause puncture wounds, placement in a puncture-resistant, leak-proof container followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(II) steam disinfection, and if the item can cause puncture wounds, placement in a puncture-resistant container followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(III) incineration, and if item can cause puncture wounds, placement in a puncture-resistant container followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(IV) encapsulation in a matrix which will solidify and significantly reduce the possibility of puncture wounds followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(V) moist heat disinfection followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(VI) chlorine disinfection/maceration followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill; or
(VII) an approved alternate treatment process, provided that the process renders the item as unrecognizable and can no longer cause puncture wounds, followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill.
(iii) Intravenous stylets and rigid introducers (e.g., J wires) shall be subjected to one of the following methods of treatment and disposal:
(I) chemical disinfection, and if the item can cause puncture wounds, placement in a puncture-resistant, leak-proof container followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(II) steam disinfection, and if the item can cause puncture wounds, placement in a puncture-resistant, leak-proof container followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(III) incineration, and if the item can cause puncture wounds, placement in a puncture-resistant, leak-proof container followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(IV) encapsulation in a matrix which will solidify and significantly reduce the possibility of puncture wounds, followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(V) moist heat disinfection followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(VI) chlorine disinfection/maceration followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill; or
(VII) an approved alternate treatment process, provided that the process renders the item as unrecognizable and can no longer cause puncture wounds, followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill.
(iv) Glass pasteur pipettes, glass pipettes, specimen tubes, blood culture bottles, and microscope slides, and broken glass from laboratories shall be subjected to one of the following methods of treatment and disposal:
(I) chemical disinfection, and if the item can cause puncture wounds, placement in a puncture-resistant, leak-proof container followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(II) steam disinfection, and if the item can cause puncture wounds, placement in a puncture-resistant container followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(III) incineration, and if the item can cause puncture wounds, placement in a puncture-resistant container followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(IV) encapsulation in a matrix which will solidify and significantly reduce the possibility of puncture wounds followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(V) moist heat disinfection followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(VI) chlorine disinfection/maceration followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill; or
(VII) an approved alternate treatment process, provided that the process renders the item as unrecognizable and can no longer cause puncture wounds, followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill.
(v) Tattoo needles, acupuncture needles, and electrolysis needles shall be subjected to one of the following methods of treatment and disposal:
(I) chemical disinfection, and if the item can cause puncture wounds, placement in a puncture-resistant, leak-proof container followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(II) steam disinfection, and if the item can cause puncture wounds, placement in a puncture-resistant, leak-proof container followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(III) incineration, and if the item can cause puncture wounds, placement in a puncture-resistant, leak-proof container followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(IV) encapsulation in a matrix which will solidify and significantly reduce the possibility of puncture wounds, followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(V) moist heat disinfection followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill;
(VI) chlorine disinfection/maceration followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill; or
(VII) an approved alternate treatment process, provided that the process renders the item as unrecognizable and can no longer cause puncture wounds, followed by deposition in a sanitary landfill.


So, again, my question is what in here is causing all the uproar?
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