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post #16 of 93 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 02:42 PM
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Re: Abortion as a general topic

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It isn't in conflict. He's just being argumentative.

Mandatory vasectomies for all males who are sexually mature. End of abortions!
Mandatory hysterectomies for women who are sexually mature. End of abortions. /sarc


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post #17 of 93 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 02:46 PM
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Re: Abortion as a general topic

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I am not a proponent of abortion at all

But I am a proponent for a woman's choice for early on procedures

But........I ask this. This issue will never be resolved unless we turn to a purely secular society.(Not to confuse religion with morals here)

People standing outside of clinics wasting time when they could be advocating for alternative remedies

So instead of us on either side of the issue getting no where why not decrease the amount of abortions by letting Adoption be much less time consuming and expensive . At least that would accomplish something.

Think of it 3 to 5 year process and as much as 100K for one child.and who the fvck benefits from all that money ?

Just many of my thoughts that would cure the worlds ills

I will work on a plan for world hunger soon

55
Because the zealots on both sides of the aisle don't profit from your plan. The <abortion is a sacrament> crowd don't care about children. And neither do most of the <abortion is murder> crowd.

It's about virtue signalling for most of them.

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post #18 of 93 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 02:50 PM
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Re: Abortion as a general topic

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The point is MrsAldi....sperm(no matter where it ends up) and babies in the womb have no rights. But I'll ask again, how is it a pregnant woman is murdered and the baby in the womb also dies it will be tried as a double homicide?
I'm not going to agrue with the "abortion is murder logic"

Do you think women go through procedure this because babies are an inconvenience?
Hardly, unless you have been in an impossible position, you couldn't possibly understand.

Women is assaulted but doesn't want to have her rapists baby, yet she is a murderer.

By the way, abortion is illegal in my country, 15 years jail.
Rape is 10 years jail.

So that is what your point will get you.


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post #19 of 93 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 03:08 PM
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Re: Abortion as a general topic

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I'm not going to agrue with the "abortion is murder logic"

Do you think women go through procedure this because babies are an inconvenience?
Hardly, unless you have been in an impossible position, you couldn't possibly understand.

Women is assaulted but doesn't want to have her rapists baby, yet she is a murderer.

By the way, abortion is illegal in my country, 15 years jail.
Rape is 10 years jail.

So that is what your point will get you.


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Why can you not argue abortion is murder logic when a pregnant woman who is murdered the accused is tried for a double homicide? The courts see this a double murder. But abortion it is not. It is a question, not an argument or a discussion to get upset over.

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post #20 of 93 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 03:25 PM
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Re: Abortion as a general topic

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Originally Posted by MrsAldi View Post
I'm not going to agrue with the "abortion is murder logic"

Do you think women go through procedure this because babies are an inconvenience?
Hardly, unless you have been in an impossible position, you couldn't possibly understand.

Women is assaulted but doesn't want to have her rapists baby, yet she is a murderer.

By the way, abortion is illegal in my country, 15 years jail.
Rape is 10 years jail.

So that is what your point will get you.


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I don't speak for Yeswecan...

But yes, I think most women who get abortions do it out of convenience--at least in my country. In fact, I'd wager that the vast majority are out of convenience. It would cramp their lifestyle. They'd have to actually be responsible people.

The majority of abortions are not for rape here. And here in the US, most people (#notall) who propose abortion bans make exception for rape and for saving the life of the mother. Let's look at 2014 stats and demographics (most recent available currently)

NCVIS for US reports .06 victims of sexual assault and rape (combined, not separated) per 1,000 people over 12. They further clarify that 30% of these claims are "completed rape" or "the unlawful penetration of a person against the will of the victim, with use or threatened use of force, or attempting such an act. Rape includes psychological coercion and physical force, and forced sexual intercourse means vaginal, anal, or oral penetration by the offender. Rape also includes incidents where penetration is from a foreign object (e.g., a bottle), victimizations against male and female victims, and both heterosexual and homosexual rape."

US Population 2014 318.9M. Child population under 12 46.4 M. Total: 12+ 2014: 272.5M
Rate of completed rape: .02 per 1,000... Roughly 5,450 completed rape victims
Total number of abortions 2014... 954,000 abortions

Even if every one of these was a woman who got knocked up by her attacker(s), it wouldn't come close to adding up. 940,000+ abortions happened that year for the convenience of the womem seeking the service.

Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...

Last edited by Kivlor; 12-06-2016 at 03:35 PM.
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post #21 of 93 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 03:39 PM
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Re: Abortion as a general topic

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Sperm has the same rights as a child in the womb. How is it abortion is not considered murder but when a pregnant woman is murdered it will be consider double homicide in a court of law?
You dodged the question.

Why should an early abortion not be ok but masterbating is ok?

Sperm are alive.

Why are anti abortionists not targeting masterbating men?
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post #22 of 93 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 03:50 PM
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Re: Abortion as a general topic

Whether or not you think abortion is murder is a personal opinion. BUT if there was no abortion, you can't deny that society would be in trouble. People complain now about how much they are taxed, imagine if there where a million more unwanted babies. And those unwanted babies grow up and have unwanted babies. Not to mention crime, and over population. It's ridiculous to think this world would be ok without abortion.
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post #23 of 93 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 03:53 PM
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Re: Abortion as a general topic

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Originally Posted by lifeistooshort View Post
You dodged the question.

Why should an early abortion not be ok but masterbating is ok?

Sperm are alive.

Why are anti abortionists not targeting masterbating men?
Alive in what sense? Does sperm coo, poop and grow into person or is it just a tadpole looking thing that swims until dead?

Oh, I did not say early abortion is not ok. For the record. Day after pill is ok in my book. Very late term abortions are not ok in my book.

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post #24 of 93 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 03:55 PM
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Re: Abortion as a general topic

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The point is MrsAldi....sperm(no matter where it ends up) and babies in the womb have no rights. But I'll ask again, how is it a pregnant woman is murdered and the baby in the womb also dies it will be tried as a double homicide?
Because the law recognizes the rights that the woman has granted the fetus by carrying it to term. It is one of those grey areas that the black and white extremists on either side can't accept as reality. Most people don't understand that nature or God has made it that it is ultimately up to the woman, who's life and body is required for new life to come into this world.

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post #25 of 93 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 03:56 PM
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Re: Abortion as a general topic

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Originally Posted by lifeistooshort View Post
You dodged the question.

Why should an early abortion not be ok but masterbating is ok?

Sperm are alive.

Why are anti abortionists not targeting masterbating men?
Sperm are not alive. Sperm contain half of the genetic material required to produce a viable embryo. The egg contains the other half.

Sperm appear to be alive because they move. In fact, their mobility is the result of complex chemical interactions and chemical signals given off by the egg.

If you believe sperm are alive, you must also believe that eggs are alive.

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post #26 of 93 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 03:59 PM
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Re: Abortion as a general topic

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Also heavy regulation of male masterbating, because sperm are alive.

They should definitely have a lawyer to look out for their rights, and all strip clubs should be picketed because men who masterbate to completion are murderers.

Sperm have rights too!

I bet that won't be well received.
The Cathoholics have already beat you to it. Look up Onan in the Bible. He sinned when he cast his seed onto the ground instead of into his dead brother's wife. For some reason most Cathoholics don't pay attention to the sin of Onanism, but gladly condemn women who abort.

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post #27 of 93 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 03:59 PM
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Re: Abortion as a general topic

This is what drives me nuts... and for the record I am a born again Christian. Why are some Christians so obsessed with CERTAIN things in the Bible? Like some of these people are SO anti-abortion, anti- homosexual marriage. But why aren't these people so anti-divorce? Why aren't they trying to make divorce illegal (with exceptions that are in the Bible?) how come they aren't disgusted with divorce like they are with gays? How come they aren't as against polygamist marriage?
It makes me so mad when Christians target random sins in the Bible like gay marriage and abortion and ignore the rest. You can't be "super passionate" about one sin... that's called hate and prejudice.
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post #28 of 93 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 04:03 PM
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Re: Abortion as a general topic

I think a huge part of the problem here is that most people really don't know a whole lot about what a pregnancy actually entails, and when an embryo can be called 'alive'. The averaqe scared girl who goes to the clinic isn't given a crash course in embryonic physiology and the stages of pregnancy and allowed to form an opinion. By the time she's there it's too late anyway.

Anti abortionists love to use pictures of what fetuses look like at different stages as scare tactics, but I think those pictures should be part of some kind of balanced educational initiative to inform everyone about what actually happens and how women actually get pregnant and at what stage it's no longer just a mass of cells. If more people knew exactly what they were killing maybe more people would decide not to kill it. And if they do decide to go through with it, they aren't going to feel guilt years later because they 'never knew'.
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post #29 of 93 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 04:08 PM
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Re: Abortion as a general topic

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Alive in what sense? Does sperm coo, poop and grow into person or is it just a tadpole looking thing that swims until dead?



Oh, I did not say early abortion is not ok. For the record. Day after pill is ok in my book. Very late term abortions are not ok in my book.


Who believes in very late abortions? Aren't 3rd trimester abortions illegal in the US? I know some countries believe abortion at any time is ok but that's the exception to the rule.
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post #30 of 93 (permalink) Old 12-06-2016, 04:16 PM
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Re: Abortion as a general topic

The word kill is also misleading. For example the morning after pill does not KILL anything, it just prevents the "embryo" (which may or may not even be an embryo) from attaching to the uterus (which doesn't often happen even without the help of the morning after pill).

With the availability of contraception, and the morning after pill I can't believe how many abortions there still are today. It's actually really embarrassing how dumb we are (we as in the men and women who have sex).
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