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post #1 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 03:14 AM Thread Starter
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Question Interest Free Loans For Muslims

I don't get this.

Banks are trying to accommodate sharia law which forbids Muslims paying interest on loans.


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A so-called murabaha sale is one in which there is no interest paid. Instead, the price of the object to be financed is known and the buyer agrees to pay a premium over that initial price. In such a contract, the financial institution must own the item at the time the customer buys it from the institution.

If a Christian, [or a Jew, or a Hindu, or a Buddhist] approached a financial institution and insisted that the lending practices conform to, say, the morals of the New Testament----that person would get laughed out the door.

I'd like to hear TAM opinions on the subject.



Muslim Sharia Law In Seattle? Islamic Interest-Free Mortgage Loans Debated


Muslim students will be offered Sharia-friendly student loans by government | Daily Mail Online

Interest-Free Financing for U.S. Muslims - ABC News

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post #2 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 09:29 AM
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Re: Interest Free Loans For Muslims

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Originally Posted by notmyrealname4 View Post
I don't get this.

Banks are trying to accommodate sharia law which forbids Muslims paying interest on loans.





If a Christian, [or a Jew, or a Hindu, or a Buddhist] approached a financial institution and insisted that the lending practices conform to, say, the morals of the New Testament----that person would get laughed out the door.

I'd like to hear TAM opinions on the subject.



Muslim Sharia Law In Seattle? Islamic Interest-Free Mortgage Loans Debated


Muslim students will be offered Sharia-friendly student loans by government | Daily Mail Online

Interest-Free Financing for U.S. Muslims - ABC News
If I do business with a bank, and they provide this service, I think I'll be filing discrimination. Start using the Progressives' tools against them. If I had kids going to a school offering it, I'd do the same.

You can't discriminate based on religion in this country. And charging me interest if I'm not a member of a specific religion sounds an awful lot like discrimination...
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post #3 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 09:42 AM
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Re: Interest Free Loans For Muslims

And to think 0% financing is based on Sharia law... Maybe I oughta ask my father in law for a 0% medical school loan for his granddaughter

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post #4 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 09:42 AM
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Re: Interest Free Loans For Muslims

Christians have been banking and paying interest on loans for centuries, even when the Catholic church was essentially in charge of all morality in Europe. You can't make a good case for an exception to that. Muslims have - as far as I know - consistently used a different process for centuries. If a bank will provide a murabaha contract, they should provide it to anyone who qualifies - including Christians. If a Muslim would prefer a standard loan with interest, they should be able to get one of those if they qualify. As long as everyone can choose from the same options, there is no discrimination.

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post #5 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 10:09 AM
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Re: Interest Free Loans For Muslims

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Originally Posted by notmyrealname4 View Post
I don't get this.

Banks are trying to accommodate sharia law which forbids Muslims paying interest on loans.





If a Christian, [or a Jew, or a Hindu, or a Buddhist] approached a financial institution and insisted that the lending practices conform to, say, the morals of the New Testament----that person would get laughed out the door.

I'd like to hear TAM opinions on the subject.



Muslim Sharia Law In Seattle? Islamic Interest-Free Mortgage Loans Debated


Muslim students will be offered Sharia-friendly student loans by government | Daily Mail Online

Interest-Free Financing for U.S. Muslims - ABC News
Did you read through the articles? `

"The bankers at HSBC were able to create shari'ah-compliant charge cards, for insance, by replacing the interest rate with a flat fixed late payment fee of $25 for balances not paid in full at the end of the month. The card, affiliated with Mastercard, comes with an annual fee of $55."

Assuming the cost is the same, why does it matter? Do you think that corporations don't cater to Christianity? If so, get your head out of your butt...
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post #6 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 10:12 AM
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Re: Interest Free Loans For Muslims

From what I read it just looks like a different way of wording the same loan.

In one you borrow the capital ($A) and repay that with interest ($A + $A x i% = $B) so that by the end of the load you have paid the bank $B for enabling you to purchase your item. In the other you borrow $B for and item worth $A and when you have paid back $B the item is yours.

Personally I'd prefer the interest based loan with the flexibility of paying back early and reducing the interest paid, the second loan doesn't seem to cover that but I'm sure there will be some sort of early repayment bonus so that it all works out.

With all the pandering to Christians in this country, notably the protection of Christian government officials choosing only to honor laws that agree with their own beliefs, I don't think that rephrasing loans in a manner acceptable to Muslims is an invasion of anyone's liberties or freedoms.
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post #7 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 10:39 AM
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Re: Interest Free Loans For Muslims

Lenders can structure a product however they want, and call it whatever they want, as long as it complies with state and federal regulations and their own business criteria for risk and profit. If there is enough demand for a "Christian" structured product, no doubt they'll create one that complies with regulations.

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post #8 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 10:45 AM
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Re: Interest Free Loans For Muslims

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Originally Posted by Herschel View Post
"The bankers at HSBC were able to create shari'ah-compliant charge cards, for insance, by replacing the interest rate with a flat fixed late payment fee of $25 for balances not paid in full at the end of the month. The card, affiliated with Mastercard, comes with an annual fee of $55."
I don't care either way what private banks do in this respect. But why is the product you mention even needed? Banks offer prepaid gift cards. And a person is free to own a credit card with no interest charged as long as the balance is paid at the end of the billing cycle. If paying interest violates a person's beliefs then they own the personal responsibility to avoid carrying a balance and being assessed interest. I would think Allah or the supreme being one believes in knows whether they're gaming their faith.

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post #9 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 11:11 AM
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Re: Interest Free Loans For Muslims

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Originally Posted by notmyrealname4 View Post
I don't get this.

Banks are trying to accommodate sharia law which forbids Muslims paying interest on loans.
I don't see how banks could enforce this. Banks don't care what religion you are, you'll get charged interest whether you're Muslim or not.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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post #10 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 12:31 PM
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Re: Interest Free Loans For Muslims

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I don't care either way what private banks do in this respect. But why is the product you mention even needed? Banks offer prepaid gift cards. And a person is free to own a credit card with no interest charged as long as the balance is paid at the end of the billing cycle. If paying interest violates a person's beliefs then they own the personal responsibility to avoid carrying a balance and being assessed interest. I would think Allah or the supreme being one believes in knows whether they're gaming their faith.
Who is gaming what? The "gaming" is falling on the bank and not the person acquiring the loan. Let's say this guy has no idea what a mortgage even is and walks into a bank. The bank says, hey, we have this compliant to your religion loan and all you have to do is sign. That guy isn't doing anything wrong in the eyes of Allah.

Given that I think all religion is a bunch of BS, I don't necessarily care that much either way. However, if you are somehow implying that Christians somehow don't game their faith despite trying to remain as loyal as possible, well, see the last sentence of my other post.

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post #11 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 12:34 PM
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Re: Interest Free Loans For Muslims

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I don't see how banks could enforce this. Banks don't care what religion you are, you'll get charged interest whether you're Muslim or not.
Clearly you don't understand the premise. If devout Muslims need a loan, they cannot get it from a standard bank, given that they charge interest. If a bank wants to tap into the world of Muslim finance, they will need to come up with a situation that is suitable for a Muslim, who is devout, to be able to get a loan. Otherwise they won't receive the business. It's not like a Muslim is getting a loan and demanding that it be 0% interest for the life and it is the same value as any other loan. But you probably just responded without actually reading the links.

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post #12 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 12:38 PM
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Re: Interest Free Loans For Muslims

It's not discrimination because anyone can get either type of loan. The bank won't check what religion you are. They offer many different loan types and you can pick which one works best for you. If you don't care about sharia law, then you can pick from all of them. A Muslim does care so will only pick those loans which are compliant.

There are some appliances which are certified for Jewish rules against work on holy days. It may be something as simple as a switch so that the light doesn't come on when the door opens up. Anyone is free to purchase those appliances no matter their religion. Manufactures added those changes where they could to meet the demand of Jewish customers.

It's the same with the loans. The bank wants to get as many customers as they can. If they can make products which meet the special requirements of a group, then they'll make that available. But the product can be used by everyone, so it's not discrimination.
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post #13 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 12:57 PM
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Re: Interest Free Loans For Muslims

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Originally Posted by Herschel View Post
Who is gaming what? The "gaming" is falling on the bank and not the person acquiring the loan. Let's say this guy has no idea what a mortgage even is and walks into a bank. The bank says, hey, we have this compliant to your religion loan and all you have to do is sign. That guy isn't doing anything wrong in the eyes of Allah.



Given that I think all religion is a bunch of BS, I don't necessarily care that much either way. However, if you are somehow implying that Christians somehow don't game their faith despite trying to remain as loyal as possible, well, see the last sentence of my other post.


Whoa. Lol. I merely asked for the need for this type of product. And why wouldn't a normal credit card work?

I don't think I was implying anything. I explicitly said Allah or the supreme being that one believes in probably knows whether a person is being faithful or gaming their faith or not.

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post #14 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 01:02 PM
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Re: Interest Free Loans For Muslims

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It's not discrimination because anyone can get either type of loan. The bank won't check what religion you are. They offer many different loan types and you can pick which one works best for you. If you don't care about sharia law, then you can pick from all of them. A Muslim does care so will only pick those loans which are compliant.

There are some appliances which are certified for Jewish rules against work on holy days. It may be something as simple as a switch so that the light doesn't come on when the door opens up. Anyone is free to purchase those appliances no matter their religion. Manufactures added those changes where they could to meet the demand of Jewish customers.

It's the same with the loans. The bank wants to get as many customers as they can. If they can make products which meet the special requirements of a group, then they'll make that available. But the product can be used by everyone, so it's not discrimination.
But it's for Muslims man...it's for Muslims!!!
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post #15 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-09-2016, 01:21 PM
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Re: Interest Free Loans For Muslims

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Clearly you don't understand the premise. If devout Muslims need a loan, they cannot get it from a standard bank, given that they charge interest. If a bank wants to tap into the world of Muslim finance, they will need to come up with a situation that is suitable for a Muslim, who is devout, to be able to get a loan. Otherwise they won't receive the business. It's not like a Muslim is getting a loan and demanding that it be 0% interest for the life and it is the same value as any other loan. But you probably just responded without actually reading the links.





I think sharia compliant lenders is growing in popularity. There's quite a list already available. I'm sure as the demand increases so will the supply.

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