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post #46 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 12:03 PM
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Re: What do you think of this?

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Irrelevant? How long would the business last without those things?

He was definitely a big part of it. But not the only part.

No, I don't "know" it.

Interesting that you see class warfare in there, though. I never would have come up with that.

And we could look at the ways to encourage more people to start businesses. Like Medicare for all.

I think we are getting a bit off topic, though . . .
They wouldn't, but society at large would not either.
True, not the only part, but >>95% of the part.
If you don't know it, you need to open your eyes. Blindly following anyone is crazy.
BO is totally a class warfare advocate. It is obvious when listening to anything he says.

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post #47 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What do you think of this?

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"Taking snippets of his speech ignores the larger context of the president’s meaning that a business owner does not become successful 'on your own.' ”

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #48 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What do you think of this?

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They wouldn't, but society at large would not either.
True, not the only part, but >>95% of the part.
If you don't know it, you need to open your eyes. Blindly following anyone is crazy.
BO is totally a class warfare advocate. It is obvious when listening to anything he says.
Nope, not a bit obvious to me.

But please, if you want to discuss that, start your own thread. I would like to focus back on the topic of this one, please.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #49 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 12:06 PM
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Re: What do you think of this?

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I am disturbed by what might be the underlying reason for that dislike.
The "An ape in heals" comment makes the underlying reason rather clear in my opinion. The mayor (it's a public office for crying out loud) needed to resign after showing her pleasure from reading the comment. How could she possibly represent any black people after that?
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post #50 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 12:12 PM
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Re: What do you think of this?

What motivation would he have to place so much emphasis on telling business owners that they didn't solely build their business?

Anybody excusing the rhetoric from that particular speech is ignoring a huge elephant in the room.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #51 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What do you think of this?

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The "An ape in heals" comment makes the underlying reason rather clear in my opinion. The mayor (it's a public office for crying out loud) needed to resign after showing her pleasure from reading the comment. How could she possibly represent any black people after that?
That would be my thinking, too, Steve.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #52 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What do you think of this?

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What motivation would he have to place so much emphasis on telling business owners that they didn't solely build their business?

Anybody excusing the rhetoric from that particular speech is ignoring a huge elephant in the room.
Far, I think that would make for an interesting thread. But I would like us to get back to the subject of this one now, please.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #53 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 12:22 PM
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Re: What do you think of this?

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And why not? A slur is still a slur, I don't care what's your background. "Racist" seems to be used whenever certain groups want to hide from any kind of criticism.

At what point will the country move out of the 60's and into the modern age?




Truer words have never been spoken.
A slur is a slur certainly, however, some slurs are more damaging to certain race, color, creed or religion than others.



Concerning moving out of the 60's, in what respect are you talking? The mentality of the 60's were segregation was still instituted and white only water fountains were in use? It is awfully hard to move into the modern age when some aspects of the previous ages pass on the ideas of racism.

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post #54 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 12:26 PM
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Re: What do you think of this?

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Ah, okay. We may just see this differently. I think the Obamas are very decent people.
I'm believing their college dissertations/thesis under lock and key might find a difference of opinion.

Since when does a potential 1st lady state, "For the first time in my life I'm proud of America." This was a very telling statement concerning M. Obama.

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post #55 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 12:30 PM
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Re: What do you think of this?

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I think it was more that the business was not built by one person's sole efforts. Society contributes, also.
Yes, via taxes to build infrastructure to support business. The same infrastructure that is available for all to "build" their business. So what is the point of "you did not build that."? You should then share? There is no point of that statement other than a socialistic view.


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post #56 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 12:33 PM
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Re: What do you think of this?

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you mean this?

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet."
And like anyone else...the business owner pays taxes to support such infrastructure. Some are just better at utilizing it's potential. Others think they should get a piece for contributing a less than a few pennies on their tax dollars that went to infrastructure. Furthermore, said people are using these roads and services as well to get to their jobs. You did not build that was the most ridiculous thing Obama said.

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post #57 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 12:36 PM
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Re: What do you think of this?

Dave,

Do you have kids? I'm not poking at you, it's a sincere question. See - the thing is - I have kids.

So I'm gonna ask you and all the other folks on the free speech side of this debate a simple question. And it's based on a recent and true story.

So let's say you have your kids in a local day care center and one of their employees posts on facebook how she: Hates kids, but took the job cause she needs the money.

--------
Do you think that, when her employer fired her, which they immediately did, she ought be able to sue to get her job back?

--------
Government officials are in a position of power. Just like day care providers are. So - it turns out that when they use publicly use hate speech they typically lose their jobs.




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I find it disturbing that utilizing free speech can cost you your job. too much intrusion...
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post #58 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 12:45 PM
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Re: What do you think of this?

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Originally Posted by naiveonedave View Post
sorry, don't click on fact check, more liberal than MSNBC.

Words mean something, he knows exactly what he said and why he said it. It was a thinly veiled attempt to shame business owners. That you can't see it. if I had more time, I would put out another 50 BO quotes of similar drivel. He is the divider in chief of recent presidents, even though he ran on open and inclusive.
I compare Obama's "you did not build that" to Bidens', "Paying more taxes is your patriotic duty." I guess I'm unpatriotic if I don't pay more taxes. Shame talking from both of them.

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post #59 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 12:50 PM
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Re: What do you think of this?

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Originally Posted by naiveonedave View Post
sorry, don't click on fact check, more liberal than MSNBC.

Words mean something, he knows exactly what he said and why he said it. It was a thinly veiled attempt to shame business owners. That you can't see it. if I had more time, I would put out another 50 BO quotes of similar drivel. He is the divider in chief of recent presidents, even though he ran on open and inclusive.
So FactCheck is too liberal? They include the YouTube clip of the speech so you can match it up to what they printed. How ON EARTH can you reject an actual video clip as being too biased?

In contrast, Republican commercials used the two seconds of BO saying "you didn't build that" over and over without any context at all.

Now I happen to think that BO is wrong on this point though I do get the idea he was trying to present. I just think he greatly overstated it.

Here's the actual clip that you could have googled if FactCheck is "too biased" for you.

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post #60 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-13-2016, 12:50 PM
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Re: What do you think of this?

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Originally Posted by MEM2020 View Post
Dave,

Do you have kids? I'm not poking at you, it's a sincere question. See - the thing is - I have kids.

So I'm gonna ask you and all the other folks on the free speech side of this debate a simple question. And it's based on a recent and true story.

So let's say you have your kids in a local day care center and one of their employees posts on facebook how she: Hates kids, but took the job cause she needs the money.

--------
Do you think that, when her employer fired her, which they immediately did, she ought be able to sue to get her job back?

--------
Government officials are in a position of power. Just like day care providers are. So - it turns out that when they use publicly use hate speech they typically lose their jobs.
Yes, I have kids. This is my stance: if it isn't done at work, doesn't use work stuff to say it, it probably shouldn't impact their employment. I realize this is idealizing.

Just because "I hate kids is stated" on facebook, doesn't make it true or harm kids, could just be blowing off steam.

She probably shouldn't have lost her job, based on one thing on the internet. Probably gotten a warning if against some unwritten set of rules. Should be able to sue to recoup job, anyone can do that.

Government officials making statements on the net that offend people happen all the time, they only lose jobs if what they say is seen as derogatory to protected classes.

I get that people get fired up about hate speech. But one statement should not be sufficient to do anything. And hate speech should not only apply to protected groups. This isn't the 1950s any more.

I don't agree with what she had to say, clearly better ways to deal with people you don't like/disagree with than calling someone names. But recall sticks and stones, etc.
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