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post #46 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 11:16 AM
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Re: Gender

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Originally Posted by BetrayedDad View Post
True until they are getting naked in the girls locker room because that's how they "identify".
Or they try to teach children that this is a good and fine lifestyle, and that maybe they are trans too and just don't know it.

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post #47 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 11:21 AM
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Re: Gender

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Or they try to teach children that this is a good and fine lifestyle, and that maybe they are trans too and just don't know it.
You must not have young kids in school like I do.

The indoctrination has already begun.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou
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post #48 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 11:21 AM
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Re: Gender

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Pedophilia, like rape is a crime. A disgusting crime where the victims rights were taken away from them, and they were forced to do something. There was no mutual consent. Don't you get that? That's everything. It's terrible. Crime is a crime because it causing harm to someone else.
Transgender is feeling like you were born the wrong gender. Who knows what hormones they have in their body. Adults have the freedom to do what they want with their own body. As long as they are declared mentally competent. It's like homosexuality. Who cares who other people choose to have sex with, as long as it's consensual. Who cares if other people want to change genders. You have no problems with women getting. Breast implants, liposuction. Men getting hair transplants. Who cares what other people choose to do with their own body it's non of your business.
Is it pedophilia if you're both minors? Is it pedophilia if one of the individuals engaging in this behavior identifies as a minor?

You're completely dodging the issues of the "trans" community. This is where it goes logically. Defend it, don't run from it. You can't know if that person is old enough to consent. You can't know their age. Age is a social construct. Consent is a social construct. The child may identify as an adult. The adult may identify as a child. It's possible that the individual born 60 years ago and identifying as an 8 year old, having sex with the individual born 16 years ago, is the real victim, because you don't know their thoughts. You don't know what chemicals are going through their brains and bodies.

I thought feelings mattered Katie. I thought it was all about how we can't know what's going on in someone's head, so we can't judge them for it.

What a farce.
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post #49 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 11:21 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Gender

A person who identifies as a minor is an interesting question but not related to trans gender. You compared trans-gender to pedophilia. I assume you meant adult trans-gender, with no other unusual behaviors. Otherwise you would need to specify: for example a trans-gender rapist, is still a rapist and comparable to a pedophile abuser.


I don't know if an adult person can have themselves declared mentally incompetent (eg a child) and become a ward of the state, or of another person. Its a different question though from the gender issue.






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You haven't addressed the issue of a trans age person, who identifies as a minor. How dare you judge their feelings as invalid? How dare you claim they are wrong? That their actions related to such are immoral? How do you recognize "gender" dysphoria, but not age dysphoria? If anything, age dysphoria truly hurts no one, because it is completely on paper and in the mind. It doesn't require any mutilation...

Sex between minors in most jurisdictions is allowed, as long as the ages are within 3-4 years...

If a trans age person who identifies as 8, but was born in 1958 has sex with 20 year old, is the 20 year old a sex criminal?
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post #50 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 11:23 AM
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Re: Gender

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You must not have young kids in school like I do.

The indoctrination has already begun.
No. But I've seen it. If at all possible, my future offspring will be home-schooled, and taught actual ethics, objective analysis, good judgement, etc. I fear for the next generation.
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post #51 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 11:25 AM
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Re: Gender

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A person who identifies as a minor is an interesting question but not related to trans gender. You compared trans-gender to pedophilia. I assume you meant adult trans-gender, with no other unusual behaviors. Otherwise you would need to specify: for example a trans-gender rapist, is still a rapist and comparable to a pedophile abuser.


I don't know if an adult person can have themselves declared mentally incompetent (eg a child) and become a ward of the state, or of another person. Its a different question though from the gender issue.
They are part of the "trans community" and are completely related to trans gender. Every argument in favor of trans gender is being used in favor of trans age and trans species.

What is the difference?

What if they don't identify as a rapist? Who are you to label them as such?
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post #52 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 11:29 AM
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Re: Gender

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They are part of the "trans community" and are completely related to trans gender. Every argument in favor of trans gender is being used in favor of trans age and trans species.

What is the difference?

What if they don't identify as a rapist? Who are you to label them as such?
That's what they don't understand. The slippery slope into anarchy.

Once you start destroying social constructs and forming new ones they become absolutely meaningless.

Why end there? Who is allowed to say what's okay? Why not allow anything based on "feelings"?

Today, I want to identify as a goat. Who are YOU to judge ANY behavior?!?

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou
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post #53 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 11:34 AM
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Re: Gender

Rachel Dolezal resigns; accused of lying about race - CNN.com

Remember this lady? The white woman who "identified" as black?!?

Is she entitled to black scholarships or affirmative action now? Why not?

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou
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post #54 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 11:40 AM
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Re: Gender

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Originally Posted by Good Guy View Post


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

Wow, you are right. Thanks for making me think about this.
I am not sure you are interpreting the study correctly. The conclusion it draws is that the study group is worse off than the general population. While this does not help the trans movement at all, a study would have to compare two groups of equally distressed trans people, deny one group gender reassignment and then compare the outcomes. It is kind of a no brainer that having this affliction makes you worse off than people without it, regardless of what is done about it.

SE

Learning Stuff on TAM I should have picked up in High School
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post #55 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 11:40 AM
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Re: Gender

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We're just going to disagree. I believe we only have one life to live and it's short. People are allowed to do what they want as long as it harms no one. The end. People like you care way too much about how other people choose to live and I will never understand why.
I'll never understand how someone who almost assuredly is on the "Left" end of the spectrum, and thinks the government should be involved in all things, reconciles that same position with what you just stated.

How I justify my position is through empathy Katie. Deep, powerful empathy and a love for mankind. We are not islands, no matter how much I may wish it were so, we are connected. Such things as what we discussed, when normalized, will become more prevalent, especially as they are taught to children--something already happening at the elementary school age. I would no more want a higher prevalence of trans-anything than I would want a higher prevalence of suicide and depression, because they are not good for individuals, and they are not good for society.

Imagine, if you will, for a moment, what it must be like to be so aggrieved, and so utterly lost, as to think that you need to mutilate your body to alleviate that pain, that wrongness. Now, looking from the outside, but holding that perspective, would you rather that everyone around you validate those feelings, and encourage you to indulge in them, and go forward with the mutilation, or would you rather that those around you do nothing, and ignore your plight, or would you rather they wrap you close in their embrace, and try to help you find a way to deal with your obvious problems.

I fall into the last of those 3.

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post #56 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 11:44 AM
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Re: Gender

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Originally Posted by BetrayedDad View Post
Just so I understand your position correctly:



1) If someone told you they truly believed they were a penguin trapped in a humans body would you believe them?



2) If someone told you they truly believed they were Jesus Christ and you had to worship them would you believe them?



3) If someone told you they truly believed they were twelve years old (an obvious adult) so its okay for them to have sex with other preteens would you believe them?



I don't know what those things "feel like" either but you bet people like that are out there. Just wondering where you draw the line...


I believe that they feel like they are a penguin, Jesus Christ not that they actually are them.

In nursing school I had to go to this psych house where people who committed crazy crimes were declared insane and they are there for life. I have talked to people there that truly that crazy things. One guy thought he was Jesus. And I knew he meant it. One guy tried to rape his mom multiple times because he is madly in love her her. I truly do not doubt these people. I think he feels like he's in love with his mom, and I think the other guy really thinks he's Jesus. You can't disagree with how someone feels.
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post #57 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 11:45 AM
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Re: Gender

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True until they are getting naked in the girls locker room because that's how they "identify".


Oh no not that... who cares!!!!
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post #58 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 11:48 AM
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Re: Gender

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Oh no not that... who cares!!!!
Shlong flapping in the wind and all. Just hanging out with the ladies. Really?

I'd bet my house PLENTY of women care even you don't. Why do they have to deal with it?

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou
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post #59 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 11:53 AM
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Re: Gender

Transgender has nothing to do with identifying as a younger age. I don't know what your talking about. But I'll go with it. If someone identifies with themselves as a minor, but isn't... doesn't mean they are a minor. They may feel like a minor. So if this person has sex with a 15 year old that is wrong, that is pedophilia and is causing harm to the real minor.

You are not getting my point. Feeling like you are something is different than actually being something. I don't care what people feel as long as they don't commit crimes. You can think your 8 years old all you want, but the rules aren't going to change because your not. Thinking your a different gender and doing surgery to correct it does not harm anyone and is not breaking any laws.
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post #60 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 11:56 AM
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Re: Gender

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Rachel Dolezal resigns; accused of lying about race - CNN.com



Remember this lady? The white woman who "identified" as black?!?



Is she entitled to black scholarships or affirmative action now? Why not?


I remember this very clearly bc I was initially very offended. Here is my take... she can feel like she's black, she can identify as being black but she isn't. Therefore she is not entitled to black scholarships and affirmative action.
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