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post #1 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
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Gender

The ideas of gender have been changing rapidly in the west. Two trends that I notice are the blurring of gender roles and the blurring of personally defined gender.

What I find interesting is that the two are sort of redundant. If the roles or men and women in society, their clothes etc become the same, then what does it mean to define oneself as a different gender than one's birth gender?

I was born male and consider myself male. But what if I considered myself female? In a society where the roles are equal, as a male I can stay home raising children, work as a nurse etc. I have no interest in knowing.

In most of life I have no more interest in someones gender than in their orientation. I have co-workers who may be gay, trans etc,

The only place I see a real difference is in dating / relationships where most people have an immutable preferred gender (unless they are bisexual). In that case though, ones biological gender still matters - even after sex change operations, people cannot function as the other gender with respect to having children.


I don't have a real point her, I just think the changes in the definition of genders are interesting.

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post #2 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 12:34 PM
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Re: Gender

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Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
The ideas of gender have been changing rapidly in the west. Two trends that I notice are the blurring of gender roles and the blurring of personally defined gender.

What I find interesting is that the two are sort of redundant. If the roles or men and women in society, their clothes etc become the same, then what does it mean to define oneself as a different gender than one's birth gender?

I was born male and consider myself male. But what if I considered myself female? In a society where the roles are equal, as a male I can stay home raising children, work as a nurse etc. I have no interest in knowing.

In most of life I have no more interest in someones gender than in their orientation. I have co-workers who may be gay, trans etc,

The only place I see a real difference is in dating / relationships where most people have an immutable preferred gender (unless they are bisexual). In that case though, ones biological gender still matters - even after sex change operations, people cannot function as the other gender with respect to having children.


I don't have a real point her, I just think the changes in the definition of genders are interesting.
Personally, I find the trans-gender BS to be horrifying. It is fraud on the most basic, primal level. Worse, in no other form of dysphoria do we encourage the behavior, or "validate" the feeling. We certainly don't recommend that the poor person suffering from it act upon the impulse to mutilate their body. It is a mental illness in need of curing.

I find the entire discussion to be a joke. The champions of this ridiculous concept attempt to advance it via relativism, but immediately fall back to objective claims that their detractors must be wrong--something that doesn't jive, when you hold it up to scrutiny. It is a farce. It is not thought out or logical. And by tolerating it, we only make those who suffer this terrible affliction suffer worse, rather than trying to get them the help they desperately need.

Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
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post #3 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 03:14 PM
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Re: Gender

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It is fraud on the most basic, primal level. Worse, in no other form of dysphoria do we encourage the behavior, or "validate" the feeling. We certainly don't recommend that the poor person suffering from it act upon the impulse to mutilate their body. It is a mental illness in need of curing.
What about hormones? Do you think they come into play with the issues?

I do think that if a child or adolescent is feeling a certain way, we should not to encourage these types of surgeries until after 25 even 30 years old.

Plastic surgery is a life altering decision, sometimes an irreversible one and I'm not a fan.

Definitely would recommend counseling for anyone considering any procedures.


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post #4 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 03:40 PM
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Re: Gender

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What about hormones? Do you think they come into play with the issues?

I do think that if a child or adolescent is feeling a certain way, we should not to encourage these types of surgeries until after 25 even 30 years old.

Plastic surgery is a life altering decision, sometimes an irreversible one and I'm not a fan.

Definitely would recommend counseling for anyone considering any procedures.


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Because the science is lacking, I have no beliefs on the root cause. It is a mental disorder, and we can guess that it at least in part comes from some sort of brain problem--hormones could be part of it, so could abuse.

I think that in no circumstance, regardless of the age of the man/woman who approached me, I would never advise them to indulge in their impulse if they told me they felt their arm was "wrong" and needed it cut off (this is a real thing). I would try to convince them to seek professional help to cure them of the impulse, or at least control it. Likewise, I would never, under any circumstance, advise a man/woman to mutilate their genitals because they "should have been born a boy/girl". I would do all I could to direct them to professional help.

As to the encouragement / tolerance / acceptance of genital mutilation surgeries later in life... well I'll just refer you to this guy.

I would never advise, or even condone a man or woman gallivanting about, pretending or presenting themselves as the opposite sex in reality, because it is a fraud, and fraud is wrong.

Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
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post #5 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Gender

Cutting off an arm reduces functionality. Gender re-assignment surgery in principal changes someone to another nominally equal gender.




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Because the science is lacking, I have no beliefs on the root cause. It is a mental disorder, and we can guess that it at least in part comes from some sort of brain problem--hormones could be part of it, so could abuse.

I think that in no circumstance, regardless of the age of the man/woman who approached me, I would never advise them to indulge in their impulse if they told me they felt their arm was "wrong" and needed it cut off (this is a real thing). I would try to convince them to seek professional help to cure them of the impulse, or at least control it. Likewise, I would never, under any circumstance, advise a man/woman to mutilate their genitals because they "should have been born a boy/girl". I would do all I could to direct them to professional help.

As to the encouragement / tolerance / acceptance of genital mutilation surgeries later in life... well I'll just refer you to this guy.

I would never advise, or even condone a man or woman gallivanting about, pretending or presenting themselves as the opposite sex in reality, because it is a fraud, and fraud is wrong.
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post #6 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 04:29 PM
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Re: Gender

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Cutting off an arm reduces functionality. Gender re-assignment surgery in principal changes someone to another nominally equal gender.
Umm, genitals have function too...

How about a toe? A rib? An ear-lobe? Part of the nose?

Gender reassignment surgery changes someone from one gender to neuter. Gender reassignment surgeons have gone on record in court admitting as much about their own practices. There is also the issue that it has never been demonstrated to provide long-term relief to those suffering from this affliction. The feeling returns, only now you've disfigured your body in an irreparable way. Suicide rates among those who elect to mutilate their bodies in this fashion is ~30%.

Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
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post #7 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 04:40 PM
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Re: Gender

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I do think that if a child or adolescent is feeling a certain way, we should not to encourage these types of surgeries until after 25 even 30 years old.
I find this even more horrifying. If an adult wants to cut their d!ck off, more power to them.

But it's the wack job parents who think 8 year old Johnny should be a Jane because he reaches for a doll is what sickens me.

HOW CAN A CHILD FULLY GRASP THE CONCEPT OF GENDER AND REALIZE WHETHER THEY ARE TRANSGENDER OR NOT?!?

They have no qualms about pumping them full of gender reassigning hormones at this tender age. It's child abuse in it's worst form.....

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou
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post #8 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Gender

I agree that drugs and gender reassignment surgery for children is wrong. Has it actually been happening? to 8 year olds?



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I find this even more horrifying. If an adult wants to cut their d!ck off, more power to them.

But it's the wack job parents who think 8 year old Johnny should be a Jane because he reaches for a doll is what sickens me.

HOW CAN A CHILD FULLY GRASP THE CONCEPT OF GENDER AND REALIZE WHETHER THEY ARE TRANSGENDER OR NOT?!?

They have no qualms about pumping them full of gender reassigning hormones at this tender age. It's child abuse in it's worst form.....
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post #9 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 04:46 PM
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Re: Gender

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Originally Posted by BetrayedDad View Post
I find this even more horrifying. If an adult wants to cut their d!ck off, more power to them.

But it's the wack job parents who think 8 year old Johnny should be a Jane because he reaches for a doll is what sickens me.

HOW CAN A CHILD FULLY GRASP THE CONCEPT OF GENDER AND REALIZE WHETHER THEY ARE TRANSGENDER OR NOT?!?

They have no qualms about pumping them full of gender reassigning hormones at this tender age. It's child abuse in it's worst form.....
Indeed, is there anything more fundamentally abusive than trying to convince your little child that they're born the "wrong gender" and then attempting to alter their physiology via injecting tremendous quantities of hormones? All for what, your vanity as a parent?

There was a case of this a couple of hours up the road from my home. Made national news. Parents had decided little Johnny should have been a girl, so they dressed him like it, got him dolls, and started injecting him with hormones, then demanded the local school refer to him by his "girl name" and let him use the little girl's restroom. I remember thinking "MY GOD! This is the face of evil!"

Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
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post #10 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 04:54 PM
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Re: Gender

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I agree that drugs and gender reassignment surgery for children is wrong. Has it actually been happening? to 8 year olds?
Can Delaying Puberty Help Transgender Kids? - The Daily Beast

I was talking about the hormones, not the surgery.

I meant they start conditioning the kids at 8 or even younger.

Certainly, too young to understand by any SANE standard.

This article says some start the hormones, "as young as 12"....


“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou
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post #11 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 05:10 PM
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Re: Gender

What about the men who can go into a bathroom with your daughter because they identify as female? That's the doozy. Has this ever happened to anyone here or maybe to someone you know? I'm interested in how did you handle it?

Even if I don't get likes for it, I'm still going to say it.
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post #12 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Gender

I am really uneasy about gender affecting drugs or other treatments for children. The idea that someone is too young to consent to sex, but old enough to consent to changing their gender is very strange to me.
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post #13 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 05:35 PM
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Re: Gender

As the operations and hormones get more popular, there is a larger pool of data to work with. Untold numbers of transgenders regret their operations after about 7 years of living as a transgender. They wish they had not mutilated their body, and want to go back to living as their genetic gender.

Here is a man who experienced just that and now is a counselor for transgenders, before and after their surgeries.

Walt Heyer is the man who's had TWO sex changes | Daily Mail Online

His websites: http://www.sexchangeregret.com/ and Walt Heyer Ministries | Rethinking Transgenderism

Last edited by IMFarAboveRubies; 01-03-2017 at 05:38 PM. Reason: added a website
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post #14 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 05:38 PM
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Re: Gender

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Originally Posted by BetrayedDad View Post
Can Delaying Puberty Help Transgender Kids? - The Daily Beast

I was talking about the hormones, not the surgery.

I meant they start conditioning the kids at 8 or even younger.

Certainly, too young to understand by any SANE standard.

This article says some start the hormones, "as young as 12"....
Younger than that. Elementary school even. They're going as young as ~6-8.

Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
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post #15 of 242 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 05:41 PM
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Re: Gender

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The ideas of gender have been changing rapidly in the west. Two trends that I notice are the blurring of gender roles and the blurring of personally defined gender.

What I find interesting is that the two are sort of redundant. If the roles or men and women in society, their clothes etc become the same, then what does it mean to define oneself as a different gender than one's birth gender?

I was born male and consider myself male. But what if I considered myself female? In a society where the roles are equal, as a male I can stay home raising children, work as a nurse etc. I have no interest in knowing.

In principle I don't care what people want to do to themselves and I won't even judge them for it.

What I find remarkable is that this whole movement believes they can and should control the space they exist in other peoples heads. I am told that I literally must view a trans-women in every way as a natural women, including as a potential partner, or I am a terrible person. Apparently not using the preferred pro-nouns is somehow a hate crime. Like they are entitled to the world bending their view on reality around their desires.

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