Ethics and Morality - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
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post #16 of 101 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 01:32 PM
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Re: Ethics and Morality

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Do people see any actions which do not harm others as being immoral? Is adult incest OK if precautions are taken so that no pregnancy results? If so, how does that differ in morality from say infidelity if the infidelity occurs under conditions where the spouse cannot find out?
You're looking at superficial harm only. There's lots of long term hurt in such cases .

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post #17 of 101 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 11:08 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Ethics and Morality

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truth, history, morality and even ethics at time are written by those in power, these words have much fluidity they change and changed over time....we were all standing the house of burgess (va) in 1745, we would proclaiming the slavery is a moral issue in so far that it is the responsibility of the white man to take responsibility of the black man for he does not have the sense to take care of himself...or if we were all listening Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes on my 1927 when reading his verdict in the Buck vs. Bell case where he said "We have seen more than once that the public welfare may call upon the best citizens for their lives. It would be strange if it could not call upon those who already sap the strength of the State for these lesser sacrifices, often not felt to be such by those concerned, in order to prevent our being swamped with incompetence. It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. . . . Three generations of imbeciles are enough. ...now i ask you is moral...is it ethical ? apparently once upon a time it was......it was immoral to own "Lady Chatterly Lover", or "Ulysses"....so what you all believe moral today or ethical can change and probably will change in time....for better or worse.
I think this statement confuses social acceptability, with morality. These are 2 very distinctly different concepts. Or are you making the case that the morality of an action completely depends whether it is accepted in society?

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post #18 of 101 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 11:47 AM
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Re: Ethics and Morality

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I think this statement confuses social acceptability, with morality. These are 2 very distinctly different concepts. Or are you making the case that the morality of an action completely depends whether it is accepted in society?
My rebuttal is that the construct of Morality is different depending on a number of variables, such as society, individual, history, etc... to say that you are moral or immoral, that you are ethical or unethical is relevant only to yourself and those that agree with you.....whether that be all of society or some of them, and the same could be said if something is or something is not moral.there are no absolutes when it comes to terms like morality.
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post #19 of 101 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Ethics and Morality

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My rebuttal is that the construct of Morality is different depending on a number of variables, such as society, individual, history, etc... to say that you are moral or immoral, that you are ethical or unethical is relevant only to yourself and those that agree with you.....whether that be all of society or some of them, and the same could be said if something is or something is not moral.there are no absolutes when it comes to terms like morality.
Okay. So is it your contention that there is nothing inherently immoral with slavery? With infanticide? With rape? I want to make sure I'm not misrepresenting you.

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post #20 of 101 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 01:18 PM
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Re: Ethics and Morality

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Okay. So is it your contention that there is nothing inherently immoral with slavery? With infanticide? With rape? I want to make sure I'm not misrepresenting you.

Kivlor what i am saying that is that morality of anyone, any topic or any event is weighed against by the reviewer or group or society where those morals/ethics either align or disagree with it;....if i was from boston in 1775 and you were Richmond in the same era, you would be able to explain to me that slavery is fair and just and i would take the opposite position that slavery is a condemnation on humanity...your fellow southerner would mostly agree with you and my northern brethren would mostly agree with me. in this case less then a hundred years later the north won and slavery was abolished....but if the south had won, would slavery still be abolished? would it had been immoral? does might make right?
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post #21 of 101 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 06:55 PM
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Re: Ethics and Morality

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This post is the "poster child" for moral relativism. You seem to think your view points are moral and ethical, yet, people you would assume are moral and ethical disagree with you. This, they are on the side of immoral and unethical. How is this possible?
It has been reported that a tribe of cannibals ate their slain foe not out of revenge or triumphalism, but due to an understanding that it would be unethical not to eat them and thus immoral.

Whilst our society believes that it is immoral to eat people.

Both societies have a diametrically opposed belief, but both are based on their own understanding of morals and ethics as they appertain to their society.

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post #22 of 101 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 03:47 PM
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Re: Ethics and Morality

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There are many options here, and you completely ignore them. There could be no morals and all things relative. I could be right on some things, wrong on others. It is my proposition that morality exists, and that it is not relative, but objective, and that we can discern and understand it.



What is your case for moral relativism? Is it your contention that consensus is necessary for a statement to be correct? If we all disagree on whether the earth is flat or round, does that mean it is neither? If we can't agree on whether the sun is a burning inferno flying in an endless space, or a limited space or pulled by a god and his chariot across the sky, or carried by a god and his boat each day, or a god dying and being reborn each day, or any number of other things, does that mean that there is no sun and none of the explanations are correct?

Do physical phenomena make a good analogy for morality? There's no opinion about the atomic weight of a hydrogen atom. There's a fact about it that's based completely in science. If you claim that atoms are tiny fireflies propelled by God you aren't dealing in science. You're dealing in faith.

There's no fact about morality that's based in science. There's no question about morality that's provably correct. Therefore questions of morality rely on opinions. That's an uncomfortable answer because opinions can be swayed easily. History has shown us that at any given point in time we believe that we know everything about morality, yet 100 years later we change that opinion. That proves that morality is relative.
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post #23 of 101 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 05:42 PM
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Re: Ethics and Morality

Can an atheist have morals?

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post #24 of 101 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 06:05 PM
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Re: Ethics and Morality

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Can an atheist have morals?
Of course, morals are not based in a religion for many of us.
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post #25 of 101 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 06:09 PM
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Re: Ethics and Morality

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Of course, morals are not based in a religion for many of us.
Wouldn't those actually be boundaries?


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post #26 of 101 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 06:12 PM
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Re: Ethics and Morality

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Wouldn't those actually be boundaries?
No, at least not for me. My morals (concept of right and wrong) are based in philosophy.
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post #27 of 101 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 06:30 PM
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Re: Ethics and Morality

If your beliefs are not the same as mine, does that prove philosophy's subjectivity?

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post #28 of 101 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 07:40 PM
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Re: Ethics and Morality

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If your beliefs are not the same as mine, does that prove philosophy's subjectivity?
Philosophy and religion are both subjective by definition, whether our beliefs align or not is irrelevant.
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post #29 of 101 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 07:52 PM
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Re: Ethics and Morality

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Do physical phenomena make a good analogy for morality? There's no opinion about the atomic weight of a hydrogen atom. There's a fact about it that's based completely in science. If you claim that atoms are tiny fireflies propelled by God you aren't dealing in science. You're dealing in faith.

There's no fact about morality that's based in science. There's no question about morality that's provably correct. Therefore questions of morality rely on opinions. That's an uncomfortable answer because opinions can be swayed easily. History has shown us that at any given point in time we believe that we know everything about morality, yet 100 years later we change that opinion. That proves that morality is relative.
I'd go one further and say that morality is about right and wrong, which is only relevant to human experience. If there were no humans at all, the universe would still go on, operating in accord with the laws of physics and the realities of geology, biology, ecology and so on.

But there would be no morality because it's only humans who decide to label things right and wrong. (And maybe some aliens on a distant planet, but that's speculative, and then morality would be contingent on their experience.)
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post #30 of 101 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 08:13 PM
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Re: Ethics and Morality

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But there would be no morality because it's only humans who decide to label things right and wrong.
Agreed, however it's mostly because we are the only species that is capable of acting in conflict with our own best interests for survival. Therefore in large enough populations we humans tend to "get out of hand" and self-destruct or kill and/or subjugate other humans.

We don't have the instincts that keep other species "in line", so to speak.
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