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post #46 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 10:52 AM
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Re: Common Core

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We don't even do science labs, john, unless the kids feel like it. My daughter says we don't need them. She has done great in her college labs without them.

She told me the important thing is to read, read, read and do math. With that, she says, our boys will do fine in college.

Everything I hear about K-12 schools--public, private, and parochial--just affirms my gratitude that our kids are not in them!
Chances are your daughter (and likely sons too) are just bright and would have done well in any school. What works for some doesnt work for all. Some kids NEED structure. Some parents obviously arent great parents and without a structured school system that they are REQUIRED to send their kids to, would likely not teach their kids anything.


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post #47 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Common Core

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Chances are your daughter (and likely sons too) are just bright and would have done well in any school. What works for some doesnt work for all. Some kids NEED structure. Some parents obviously arent great parents and without a structured school system that they are REQUIRED to send their kids to, would likely not teach their kids anything.
Well, I am not kidding about Dug's genes. They certainly did not get their math/science interest/aptitude from me.

I don't teach, btw. Our kids use self-teaching materials. I just oversee and sometimes help. Dug just wants me to be here, to be with them.

I bet we could structure schools in a healthier, more productive way than they are now. There may already be some ideas out there on that.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #48 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 11:05 AM
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Re: Common Core

The biggest issue I have seen in our school district is that the teachers were made to implement CC without ever having been given the training/retraining necessary to understand it themselves. My son says the math teachers don't seem to understand the new math well enough to explain it to the students. The past 3 years in a row he's had math teachers that have sent the lesson plans home and told the kids to see if they can figure it out on their own and the next day they all try to work it out together.

My friend's husband - who is a math professor at Cornell University no less - says he has trouble with his son's 8th grade math homework. Because it just doesn't make sense.

At the same time, the ELA work is just appalling. They read easy books, do short answer and fill in the blanks questions about what they read. They have to draw pictures to show understanding of what they are reading. Kids who aren't artistic are getting poorer grades in English than kids with handwriting so poor you can't read it. The teachers don't seem to care at all anymore about decent handwriting and a lot of schools aren't teaching cursive at all anymore. My son had to do an ELA project last semester that involved creating a movie soundtrack for their assigned reading. Really? How the heck does that teach them anything about literature? But the assignment came right out of one of the CC textbooks. Didn't take into account that kids in an extremely rural, low income school district without a high speed internet provider might not have the necessary tech at home to complete the project, either.

They're trying to make all the public school students come out at some predetermined average level. The kids who would prefer to go to trade school their senior year aren't allowed anymore, and they graduate with grades too low for anything other than community college. The kids who want to take college level classes their senior year aren't allowed to either, and they can't get into the really good colleges because they can't compete with kids from private schools who graduate with an entire year of college credits under their belts.

But don't think all liberals are on board the CC bandwagon. Cuomo is against it and is in the group of politicians who are trying to get rid of it. And the VERY liberal math/science and arts/music charter schools in Ithaca NY (liberal capital of the northeast) dont use it at all. They focus on real world education rather than class work and textbook learning. The seniors do an entire semester of real world internships with local businesses. And they send a ridiculously high percentage of kids to REALLY good colleges - MIT, FIT, Juilliard, Cornell - that produce graduates with real career skills rather than just useless liberal arts degrees that might get you a job as a manager trainee at the local convenience store.

We had one really great math teacher in our school when my son was in 6th grade. He approached the school board with an idea for an extra credit class on math, science, and magic, to be based on the Harry Potter books. The kids thought it was great. The BOE turned it down. He quit the end of that year and is now teaching in a private school that appreciates his interest in making education fun. He gets to coach their Quidditch team.

The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began... JRR Tolkien
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post #49 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 11:11 AM
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Re: Common Core

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One problem and someone not being able to grasps the solution doesn't equate to a failure of the curriculum.
QFT.

Not to mention the letter is a fake because certainly a person with that much training in mathematics would be able to figure out that problem.

I just roll my eyes in amazement when parents make these kind of complaints about such simple, but different math.


Math, like reading, just clicks with some children. Learning math concepts in multiple directions and presentations allows all {or more} of the children to connect with the concepts eventually and master a critical thinking concept versus simply memorizing multiplication tables and singular linear methods of processing numbers.

Successfully homeschooled children have/had wonderful, most invested and patient teachers. The overly broad and expansive curriculums in public schools left little time for teachers to exercise patience and achieve mastery across the board {every child}.

I wish I could say everything in one word. I hate all the things that can happen between the beginning of a sentence and the end. ~ Leonard Cohen
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post #50 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 11:23 AM
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Re: Common Core

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I bet we could save a lot of money, time, and frustration that way.

Wouldn't it be nice to have joyful schools, places where kids could learn useful things that they were interested in? And teachers could teach what they love, and mentor kids?
It would be nice, it's the way schools should be. You can't expect teachers to teach kids using methods they don't like and don't agree with and have a positive result. My kids' high school teachers kept saying they hated teaching to tests. Maybe we should start listening to them.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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post #51 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 11:32 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Common Core

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It would be nice, it's the way schools should be. You can't expect teachers to teach kids using methods they don't like and don't agree with and have a positive result. My kids' high school teachers kept saying they hated teaching to tests. Maybe we should start listening to them.
Totally agree, jb!

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #52 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Common Core

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Originally Posted by Quality View Post
QFT.

Not to mention the letter is a fake because certainly a person with that much training in mathematics would be able to figure out that problem.

I just roll my eyes in amazement when parents make these kind of complaints about such simple, but different math.


Math, like reading, just clicks with some children. Learning math concepts in multiple directions and presentations allows all {or more} of the children to connect with the concepts eventually and master a critical thinking concept versus simply memorizing multiplication tables and singular linear methods of processing numbers.

Successfully homeschooled children have/had wonderful, most invested and patient teachers. The overly broad and expansive curriculums in public schools left little time for teachers to exercise patience and achieve mastery across the board {every child}.
Why do you think the letter is a fake? Another poster just said her friend's husband is a math prof at Cornell, and he has trouble with his son's CC math.

Yes, I am definitely invested in my children, more than any teacher, public or private, could ever be. So grateful to my husband for his vision for them!

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #53 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 11:41 AM
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Re: Common Core

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Ok. Thanks for explaining this, Rowan. I have heard some homeschoolers talk about Singapore math. Some really seem to like it.

Can't say that I am convinced it is better than traditional math, though. My daughter is not the only engineer I know who grew up using Saxon.

If she/they accomplished all that with just Saxon math, there's no telling what she/they could have achieved had she/they had better Singapore Math materials as children.


I keep using the word "curriculum" but my reading today indicates it just a set of standards ~ the new curriculums and materials to meet those standards are still in the process of being developed, perfected and implemented and a big advantage to them is that can be done using real data across vast populations of students. It may not be perfect {and I agree with an above poster that much of the problem is the "No Child Left Behind" policy} but it IS measurable and testable with an overall goal of IMPROVING the education of our nation's children.

I wish I could say everything in one word. I hate all the things that can happen between the beginning of a sentence and the end. ~ Leonard Cohen
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post #54 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 11:44 AM
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Re: Common Core

CC makes people think and some of the way it presents things isn't obvious if you don't have any background in the methods that they use. Thinking is good, but CC needs to be combined with good teacher training.

I'm a professional in a scientific field, and I find some CC questions to be difficult to answer.


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Why do you think the letter is a fake? Another poster just said her friend's husband is a math prof at Cornell, and he has trouble with his son's CC math.

Yes, I am definitely invested in my children, more than any teacher, public or private, could ever be. So grateful to my husband for his vision for them!
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post #55 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Common Core

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If she/they accomplished all that with just Saxon math, there's no telling what she/they could have achieved had she/they had better Singapore Math materials as children.


I keep using the word "curriculum" but my reading today indicates it just a set of standards ~ the new curriculums and materials to meet those standards are still in the process of being developed, perfected and implemented and a big advantage to them is that can be done using real data across vast populations of students. It may not be perfect {and I agree with an above poster that much of the problem is the "No Child Left Behind" policy} but it IS measurable and testable with an overall goal of IMPROVING the education of our nation's children.

How do you know it is "better"? What more could she have achieved?

And what if it had turned her off to math?

You have a lot more faith in school systems than I do, Quality.


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #56 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 11:51 AM
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Re: Common Core

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Donald Trump Announces Pro-Common Core Betsy DeVos as Education Secretary - Breitbart
oh well, some Republicans like CC...... so it can't be all bad..... right?
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post #57 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 11:59 AM
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Re: Common Core

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We don't even do science labs, john, unless the kids feel like it. My daughter says we don't need them. She has done great in her college labs without them.

She told me the important thing is to read, read, read and do math. With that, she says, our boys will do fine in college.

Everything I hear about K-12 schools--public, private, and parochial--just affirms my gratitude that our kids are not in them!
What works for her doesn't work for everyone. That's where labs, electives, and such can be helpful.
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post #58 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Common Core

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What works for her doesn't work for everyone. That's where labs, electives, and such can be helpful.
But what if it would, john? What if slimming the curriculum way down, and allowing lots of free time for electives, would actually work really well?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #59 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 12:08 PM
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Re: Common Core

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How do you know it is "better"? What more could she have achieved?

And what if it had turned her off to math?

You have a lot more faith in school systems than I do, Quality.
Because I saw what my girls accomplished in high school.

- 12 college credits of history
- 14 credits French
- state winner national history day
- biology and psychology wizard
- calc, physics, chem at IB level
- national merit finalist
- headed to medical school this fall

And

- 6 semesters of 2d and 3d art
- 2 of art history, drafting, 3d CAD
- 2 semesters of building an actual house
- stunning art portfolio earning serious scholarship money
- over the top writing skills
- headed to PhD in design next fall

I think I got my money's worth from our public schools.
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post #60 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Common Core

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Because I saw what my girls accomplished in high school.

- 12 college credits of history
- 14 credits French
- state winner national history day
- biology and psychology wizard
- calc, physics, chem at IB level
- national merit finalist
- headed to medical school this fall

And

- 6 semesters of 2d and 3d art
- 2 of art history, drafting, 3d CAD
- 2 semesters of building an actual house
- stunning art portfolio earning serious scholarship money
- over the top writing skills
- headed to PhD in design next fall

I think I got my money's worth from our public schools.
That shows that Singapore math is better than Saxon?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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