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post #91 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 03:11 PM
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Re: Common Core

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Dave, have you ever thought about just teaching your kids on your own? Would anything really bad happen if they just sat quietly in math class? Just tell them to be polite and respectful to the teacher, but that you will be handling math from now on?

Just trying to think of ideas for you.
I am past that almost. Basically, now that they are in HS, they know how to handle cr*p from teachers. Thanks for the positive thoughts, though.


I am just fed up with what our country is becoming....

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post #92 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Common Core

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I am past that almost. Basically, now that they are in HS, they know how to handle cr*p from teachers. Thanks for the positive thoughts, though.


I am just fed up with what our country is becoming....
Well, I just know I don't want my kids in school.

Lol, that is the one and only way I am more conservative than you, Dave, or maybe am even a conservative at all.

Seriously, though, as a homeschooler, I am the main influence on my children. Think about that, Dave. Think about all the problems and unnecessary stress we have been able to avoid that way.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #93 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 03:34 PM
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Re: Common Core

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Because I saw what my girls accomplished in high school.

- 12 college credits of history
- 14 credits French
- state winner national history day
- biology and psychology wizard
- calc, physics, chem at IB level
- national merit finalist
- headed to medical school this fall

And

- 6 semesters of 2d and 3d art
- 2 of art history, drafting, 3d CAD
- 2 semesters of building an actual house
- stunning art portfolio earning serious scholarship money
- over the top writing skills
- headed to PhD in design next fall

I think I got my money's worth from our public schools.
How long ago was this? Our school district had a lot of that available when I was a teen (late 80s) but AP classes, seniors taking college courses, participating in things like NHS and the Academic Olympiad and the Scripps challenge - we haven't had any of that in over a decade now. They also no longer have the option to opt out of the Regents program junior and senior year in favor of trade school. And in return, what has our district seen? An uptick in the dropout and teen pregnancy rates among the less "academically inclined" students.

I will say I don't 100% blame CC. A lot of the blame, at least in the larger area where we live, is the push to spend money and time on athletics rather than academics. Our school no longer has a drama club, science club, foreign language club, chess club, National Honor Society, Glee club, library club, or school newspaper. Hell we don't even have non academic groups like Boy and Girl Scouts, 4H, or FFA anymore! But we have a brand new track, tennis courts, soccer field, and astronomically expensive Olympic sized swimming pool. None of which will help any of our graduates get into college because athletes at tiny rural schools don't get scouted.

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post #94 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 04:35 PM
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Re: Common Core

i just hate standardized testing in general. floridas FCAT meant that for half the year, every year, we had to stop learning anything new and study the same old bull sh!t we already learned last year. and the year before.

seriously, even if you passed it every year, you were learning the same old crap every year.


so far as common cores curriculum, its confusing as hell. im not a fan of it at all.

you want to know where i learned the most in highschool? i took agriculture. the teacher basically told us to form our own curriculum. the agriculture department only had to show that they were teaching something related to agriculture.

so i learned how to use ostracods to help clone roses without needing hormones or substrates. you wont find stuff like that in a text book.

personally, i believe that schooling should be fairly standardized until kids learn to read. after that, let them study what they want. who gives a crap if they behind in one area if they are a genius in another? eventually they will learn the things they need to learn in order to continue excelling in the things they enjoy.

i still cant do long division in my head but i have built my own laminar flow cabinets and am pretty good at tissue cloning. i can grow just about anything. i can do simply addition and subtraction, but i often choose to use a calculator anyway. but seriously, who gives a crap? if i didnt have a calculator and i needed to make sure i have enough money when i go to the store, i would get better at doing math in my head. it would be a non issue, just part of life.

for the life of me i cannot understand why people think that todays youth are stupid just because they dont have the same skills.

you lived in your world. let your kids learn to live in theirs...

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post #95 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Common Core

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Originally Posted by As'laDain View Post
i just hate standardized testing in general. floridas FCAT meant that for half the year, every year, we had to stop learning anything new and study the same old bull sh!t we already learned last year. and the year before.

seriously, even if you passed it every year, you were learning the same old crap every year.


so far as common cores curriculum, its confusing as hell. im not a fan of it at all.

you want to know where i learned the most in highschool? i took agriculture. the teacher basically told us to form our own curriculum. the agriculture department only had to show that they were teaching something related to agriculture.

so i learned how to use ostracods to help clone roses without needing hormones or substrates. you wont find stuff like that in a text book.

personally, i believe that schooling should be fairly standardized until kids learn to read. after that, let them study what they want. who gives a crap if they behind in one area if they are a genius in another? eventually they will learn the things they need to learn in order to continue excelling in the things they enjoy.

i still cant do long division in my head but i have built my own laminar flow cabinets and am pretty good at tissue cloning. i can grow just about anything. i can do simply addition and subtraction, but i often choose to use a calculator anyway. but seriously, who gives a crap? if i didnt have a calculator and i needed to make sure i have enough money when i go to the store, i would get better at doing math in my head. it would be a non issue, just part of life.

for the life of me i cannot understand why people think that todays youth are stupid just because they dont have the same skills.

you lived in your world. let your kids learn to live in theirs...
I am not surprised you learned so much in your agricultural studies, Asla. Where I grew up the ag program in the high school was excellent. Lots of future farmers in the school, so the classes were very meaningful to them.

Fabulous teacher running the program, too. A friend of my sister (a teacher in the school) and my classmate's father. Wonderful family man and such a hard worker. We were really lucky to have him.

Glad to hear you got so much out of it. So sad that so many schools do not offer similar opportunities.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #96 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 05:25 PM
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Re: Common Core

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I liked it and the fact that many parents couldn't or don't understand it is simply a testament to it's necessity.

Sadly something that started out bipartisan has now been labeled "liberal", "ObamaCore" and the "teacher's union plot to indoctrinate our kids" so, ironically, it's probably going to be thrown away by an administration that all went to {and their kids went to or go to} private schools that has utilized the advanced curriculum {really the concept of critical thinking versus rogue memorization} to some degree since the 1970's {actually forever}.

We don't need kids to be calculators ~ we NEED mathematicians and engineers.
People don't think their kids are being "indoctrinated" because of common core math. Things like being taught incomplete and erroneous history or being forced to recite the Koran, but NOT being allowed to mention a Christian God or even Christmas does a pretty good job of at least giving the APPEARANCE of some sort of indoctrination going on.

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post #97 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 05:38 PM
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Re: Common Core

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You said the states were cash-strapped during the financial crisis. With money only largely available at the federal level, that sounds like being held hostage.

I mean, what was the alternative? Close the schools? Isn't that what happens when there is no money?
So by that logic, after Trump builds the wall, we'll all become his prisoner.

48 states get together and, together with educational experts, revisit the educational standards and goals of those states collectively and formulate a set of new, hopefully better {which we all tend to agree could be better}, set of standards they end up calling Common Core. However, getting state legislatures to adopt these new, hopefully better, standards was a very cumbersome undertaking especially in this new political age of obstructionism and the condition of the economy and state budgets in 2008-2010. Therefore, in an effort to jump start and incentivize the quick adoption of these new supposedly "better" standards the federal government and the Obama administration adopt it as the cornerstone of their national education program and conceived a CONTEST for federal funds based upon States getting on board. It appears only a two of 40 states actually "won" substantial federal money in early 2010, then 10 or 35 states won less money in late 2010, then 7 more states that hadn't "won" previously were "awarded" even less money in in December 2011 {see below} but because Obama touched it the opportunity to brand it Obamacore and politicize it into some progressive scheme to indoctrinate our children into liberal philosophies {as though young people being liberal is a new thing} and a one world order set about to destroy rural America was just too easy to miss.

Here's a article about the federal funding contest and the overall statistically results of the Race to the Top program: LINK


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post #98 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Common Core

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So by that logic, after Trump builds the wall, we'll all become his prisoner.
What?

How does that even make sense?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #99 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 06:41 PM
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Re: Common Core

My girls graduated high school in the 2011+ time frame. We have the NFL spec sports facilities but the high school has mostly good teachers too.

CC is not the issue.
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post #100 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 06:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Common Core

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My girls graduated high school in the 2011+ time frame. We have the NFL spec sports facilities but the high school has mostly good teachers too.

CC is not the issue.
Please elaborate.


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #101 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 07:45 PM
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Re: Common Core

Parental involvement is the real reason our school district is so good. Lots of involved parents who have their kids teachers on speed dial. Lots of after school enrichment. Lots of parental expectations.

Why is it that out of two extensive sets of friends, very few kids my girls know ended up nowhere?

A handful of college dropouts, a few that did 5-6 years to graduate, but all doing well. Several of DD2's high school buddies are headed to med, dental, or law schools four years later.
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post #102 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 07:49 PM
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Re: Common Core

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My girls graduated high school in the 2011+ time frame. We have the NFL spec sports facilities but the high school has mostly good teachers too.

CC is not the issue.
CC may not be the issue but the fact that it is being enforced on all public school students is. Teens used to have choices. They could take a standard Regents track which was good prep for a decent college. They could take AP Regents which was prep for a college with more difficult enrollment standards. But they could also take a non Regents track where they had multiple options to learn a trade in their junior and/or senior year. By the time they graduated they could already be licensed beauticians, tractor trailer drivers, LPNs, daycare workers, electrical or plumbing apprentices, home electronics repair techs. These opportunities still exist in private and charter schools but they have been removed from our public schools, at least locally. All we have left now is what used to be considered the "standard" Regents track.

And our homeschool laws are strict too. Starting in 4th grade homeschool students have to come in and take the same standardized tests as the public school students. If they don't do well, the parents can lose their homeschool license at which point the child has to be enrolled in school.

The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began... JRR Tolkien
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post #103 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 08:03 PM
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Re: Common Core

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What?

How does that even make sense?
I was going for a hyperbolic metaphor.

He promised {this one should be easy to keep} to build a wall along the Texas border separating Mexico and the United States. The wall should have surveillance cameras, guards and probably barb wire and electricity. It will look like a prison wall and prevent me from walking across the border into Mexico, therefore, I am restricted and it will OUTRAGEOUSLY feel as much like a prison to me as the hyperbolic claim that the states felt like hostages to Obama's Race to the Top federal education funding contest.

I'm really not that concerned about the subject. My kids are done with k-12 education anyway and by the time my grandchildren get there it should be fairly obvious whether it is/was 'successful' in relative terms {since part of the benefit of it is it's measurability} and the teachers {and their unions} will be used to it and hesitant/resistant to make the next change.

Hopefully the next generation of parents won't be as weak at math and make such silly objections to rather simple math problems intended to engage and challenge children.

I wish I could say everything in one word. I hate all the things that can happen between the beginning of a sentence and the end. ~ Leonard Cohen
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post #104 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Common Core

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CC may not be the issue but the fact that it is being enforced on all public school students is. Teens used to have choices. They could take a standard Regents track which was good prep for a decent college. They could take AP Regents which was prep for a college with more difficult enrollment standards. But they could also take a non Regents track where they had multiple options to learn a trade in their junior and/or senior year. By the time they graduated they could already be licensed beauticians, tractor trailer drivers, LPNs, daycare workers, electrical or plumbing apprentices, home electronics repair techs. These opportunities still exist in private and charter schools but they have been removed from our public schools, at least locally. All we have left now is what used to be considered the "standard" Regents track.

And our homeschool laws are strict too. Starting in 4th grade homeschool students have to come in and take the same standardized tests as the public school students. If they don't do well, the parents can lose their homeschool license at which point the child has to be enrolled in school.
Scary.

What happens if the students in school do not do well on the standardized tests?

Are the schoolteachers' licenses taken away and the students told to homeschool?

J/k! But seriously, do kids in parochial and private schools have to take the tests? If so, and they do not do well, do they have to enroll in public schools?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #105 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 08:11 PM
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Re: Common Core

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Parental involvement is the real reason our school district is so good. Lots of involved parents who have their kids teachers on speed dial. Lots of after school enrichment. Lots of parental expectations.

Why is it that out of two extensive sets of friends, very few kids my girls know ended up nowhere?

A handful of college dropouts, a few that did 5-6 years to graduate, but all doing well. Several of DD2's high school buddies are headed to med, dental, or law schools four years later.
But this takes us into a completely different issue than CC. An issue of money, plain and simple. I live in a school district where over 60% of the kids are from single parent homes. Most of the parents are single mothers working 2-3 minimum wage jobs just to make ends meet. Often we're talking 60+ hours per week. It's hard to be an involved parent when you're working ridiculous hours just to put food on the table.

And it's hard to get good teachers with a poor tax base. The majority of the land around us is farmland owned by big corporate farms. Who of course get ridiculously huge property tax breaks. Which means very little money for the schools. We are now stuffing pre-k through 12 in one building because we could no longer afford the upkeep on the elementary school. Our kids are on the busses for 1.5 hours in the morning and another 1.5 hours in the afternoon because we can't afford enough bus drivers to shorten the routes. We no longer have a late bus at all so after school activities are limited to an hour instead of the 2 we used to get. We went for over a decade without a modern computer lab and only have one now because we got a grant from the Gates Foundation.

Common Core and No Child Left Behind were supposed to help "equalize" education between kids at different income levels. I don't see where it's helped at all. The rural kids and the inner city kids are still left behind while the kids from the wealthier neighborhoods succeed. Case in point - the Academic Olympiad and the Odyssey of the Mind competitions have been won in NYS every year as far back as I can remember by one of the richest school districts in the state - in a town filled with summer homes owned by the likes of Bill and Hillary Clinton and Bill and Melinda Gates.

No, Common Core may not be the problem. But it's not a working solution, either.

The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began... JRR Tolkien
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