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post #121 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 08:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Common Core

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Originally Posted by Hellomynameis View Post
The Ithaca charter schools have opted out of CC not the traditional public schools. Their 2 charter schools are amazing and I wish I lived in their county so my son could attend one.

Cuomo wants to take on CC but is not willing to lose the federal funding. He knows we can't afford to do without it. Besides, now that he's declared his intention to run for POTUS in 2020 I doubt it's going to be one of his priorities.
Wait a second. How are charter schools able to do that? Do they not get federal funding? How are they funded then? Corporate and other private grants?


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #122 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 08:55 PM
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Re: Common Core

Just to put it into perspective. My birth country has rather hard national exams to graduate and also for university entrance. The latter one has been the subject of folklore since my days there. The questions are STUPID difficult especially math and science.

Questions and answers are posted after exams on the ministry's website. I always show those to DD2 and as good as she is in math and science she acknowledged they're basically sophomore level US college or harder.

Back there graduating with a 70% average from college was good, and I don't remember anyone > 80%. In high school, 80% to 85% was fairly hard, 90%.. impossible. I know one guy who did it, then law school, now a top EU policymaker. Grades are not candy. Nor do they matter much.

Here we chase grades like we chase perfection, mutual fund returns, or bra size.

Why is it that most of my compatriots came here for graduate school in places like MIT, U Michigan, Georgia Tech, and the like, all PhDs and department heads or better at various schools across America all tell me.

It's too easy to get a PhD in America. (Heck I got one too, wife too).

We need tiered standards and serious vocational education like in Europe. You don't need a 4.5 GPA weighted to feel successful.

Teachers in America are villified. In the rest of the world, they're respected professionals in par with engineers or physicians.

Why you need common core? Because without some standards schools will simply teach the minimum, and if they have oodles of cash then outcome is good, else, screwed.

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post #123 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 09:03 PM
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Re: Common Core

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Yes. You HAVE those things. We HAD them. I graduated from HS in 1989 with a full semester of college credits. My (much) younger cousin graduated from the same HS 14 years later. He had finished all his necessary credits by the end of his junior year. When he asked to take college courses, he was told it wasn't an option. He spent 4 HOURS a day of his senior year in study halls. What good did that do him? It made him end up hating the educational system so much that he decided not to go to college at all and now he's a 30 year old man working a dead end job. And this is a guy who's IQ tested in the higher ranges. Such a waste of a life.

My son wants to go to the Naval Academy more than anything in the world. How the hell is he ever going to meet their intense enrollment standards in such a lousy public school? I may end up having to send him away for high school just to give him a chance at his dream. Do you think I really want to miss my only child's high school years?
Here you have choice. You choose to live in a good school system or an average one. Oftentimes they're next to each other.

If the same school system deteriorates over time it's not a common core issue.

US Naval Academy he he. A former manager was a graduate... Two cubes from a West Point graduate . Great people, minimal bickering and jabs (they both blamed the USAF) tho the consensus was USN food rocks. Tell your son to look up USNA Marine Engineering...
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post #124 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 09:06 PM
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Re: Common Core

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Could you try online public school? Is that an option in NY?
No idea. But we don't have high speed internet service in our community so we wouldn't be able to use it anyway.

I had originally hoped to send him to a nearby Christian school with really high college enrollment rates, but they require a statement of faith from both parents and I'd never be able to get one from the MIA sperm donor.

We're hoping that extra curricular activities outside of the school environment will be enough to get him at least considered by the Academy. If not, he'll probably do Naval ROTC at SUNY Maritime. He doesn't want to do a short stint in the Navy either, he wants to be a lifer. Told me he'd like to make full Admiral some day. Heck of a goal for a 13 year old.

The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began... JRR Tolkien
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post #125 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 09:18 PM
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Re: Common Core

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Here you have choice. You choose to live in a good school system or an average one. Oftentimes they're next to each other.

If the same school system deteriorates over time it's not a common core issue.

US Naval Academy he he. A former manager was a graduate... Two cubes from a West Point graduate . Great people, minimal bickering and jabs (they both blamed the USAF) tho the consensus was USN food rocks. Tell your son to look up USNA Marine Engineering...

Lol. He wants to be either a fighter pilot, a SEAL, or a ship's Captain. Or just maybe a cryptographer (I think that's the right word). He already has a real talent for cracking codes and making up his own languages. He'd taught himself Egyptian hieroglyphics from books by the time he was 10. Now he's teaching himself Tolkien's Elvish. Also had his junior SCUBA certification at 10 although he can't dive on wrecks until 16. He's starting his flight training as soon as he's old enough - wants his pilots license more than a drivers license. Fortunately for him, my dad, who is retired Navy, is willing to fund all this stuff, because I sure as hell cant afford it.

And right now my crazy smart, growing up too fast but still my little boy is fast asleep with a dog across his feet and one of the Harry Potter books still lying on his chest. I think it's time for bed. 😴💤

The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began... JRR Tolkien
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post #126 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 09:31 PM
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Re: Common Core

They grow fast. I remember similar moments with my girls. But high achievers like those is what makes parenting so much fun.
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post #127 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 10:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Common Core

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Originally Posted by john117 View Post
Just to put it into perspective. My birth country has rather hard national exams to graduate and also for university entrance. The latter one has been the subject of folklore since my days there. The questions are STUPID difficult especially math and science.

Questions and answers are posted after exams on the ministry's website. I always show those to DD2 and as good as she is in math and science she acknowledged they're basically sophomore level US college or harder.

Back there graduating with a 70% average from college was good, and I don't remember anyone > 80%. In high school, 80% to 85% was fairly hard, 90%.. impossible. I know one guy who did it, then law school, now a top EU policymaker. Grades are not candy. Nor do they matter much.

Here we chase grades like we chase perfection, mutual fund returns, or bra size.

Why is it that most of my compatriots came here for graduate school in places like MIT, U Michigan, Georgia Tech, and the like, all PhDs and department heads or better at various schools across America all tell me.

It's too easy to get a PhD in America. (Heck I got one too, wife too).

We need tiered standards and serious vocational education like in Europe. You don't need a 4.5 GPA weighted to feel successful.

Teachers in America are villified. In the rest of the world, they're respected professionals in par with engineers or physicians.

Why you need common core? Because without some standards schools will simply teach the minimum, and if they have oodles of cash then outcome is good, else, screwed.
I just do not believe it, john. I spent many years in a rural public school district, not a wealthy one, either. Yet lower elementary school classes had 14 or 15 kids, upper 25 or so. My high school Algebra II class had 4 students. My English class that year had 8. A really big class had 20, and a huge class 26.

The teachers were dedicated. Maybe because teacher reputation mattered so much in a rural community? Not sure. They all wrote their own curriculum. Many were the entire, or half, of the whole department.

There were vocational students in the school as well as college bound kids. It was always interesting to hear what everyone planned to do after high school.

I am not really sure any of these school reforms work as well as they are advertised. People seem to get the education they need for the jobs they want. I just hate to see families so stressed out in the meantime.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #128 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Common Core

You are a devoted mom, Hello. Your son is very lucky.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #129 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 10:17 PM
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Re: Common Core

I teach primary grades. I don't hate common core. The idea was good. The implementation was not. We were given standards without any curriculum or training.
There were several choices for math curriculum and we didn't adopt one until 2 years after common core was "implemented ". So we were just winging it. Our old curriculum didn't support the new standards. Saxon math was only one option and was adopted for k-1 in our district but not for 2-6. Honestly it does not prepare them for the second grade standards at all. Whether that is a curriculum failure or a personnel failure I am not sure.
Reading was a similar situation except it took 4 years to get the curriculum.
The training offered was useless and open to interpretation. So while we have national standards, we are all still doing different things to address those standards.
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post #130 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 10:32 PM
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Re: Common Core

Jld, you're letting your own experience form opinion on national matters. There's a lot more suburban schools like ours and far fewer rural schools like the one you described.

The world is moving fast. We can choose to advance or to be left behind.

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post #131 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 10:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Common Core

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Jld, you're letting your own experience form opinion on national matters. There's a lot more suburban schools like ours and far fewer rural schools like the one you described.

The world is moving fast. We can choose to advance or to be left behind.
Why are you convinced that CC is going to move us ahead? And why would not using it leave us behind?

I guess I just do not have that kind of faith in the school system. Any school system, really.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #132 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 10:56 PM
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Re: Common Core

As I said, the good students already have good "national" curriculum standards. IB and AP. In typical American fashion, the rest of the students, too bad.

I've worked with our school system as a parent for 24 years. I've been very happy so far.
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post #133 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Common Core

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As I said, the good students already have good "national" curriculum standards. IB and AP. In typical American fashion, the rest of the students, too bad.

I've worked with our school system as a parent for 24 years. I've been very happy so far.
And some people are happy eating in the school cafeteria every day. Does not mean all are.

I certainly would not want that for my own kids. I do agree it is better than starvation. Do not agree with forcefeeding, though.

And I have not seen evidence that CC is the savior of American education. Is there some? It sounds like something that got forced onto many vulnerable districts. An opportunistic move by whoever was pushing it.

And I still cannot figure out why parents accept that. They must have much more faith in schools than I do.

I guess when I have seen how cheap and efficient homeschooling is, it just makes me skeptical of anything mass education is pushing.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #134 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 10:24 AM
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Re: Common Core

It's cheap and efficient because we don't consider our own opportunity costs - I could have Dr. J2 stay home and homeschool the girls and they'd be math wizards in a hurry. At the cost of losing her earning potential and the educational opportunities those earnings buy down the road.

I'm not sceptical of "the government". I'm not trusting them blind either. Common Core is the least of this country's education concerns and the fight about CC is simply a ruse.

Everything in life is a compromise. I choose to live in an expensive house because that buys the best schools in the state and top 0.3% in the country. I could move 20 miles away and live in a rural area, pay little in taxes, and have awful schools. I'm blessed with enough money to not fret over the decision. But others aren't as lucky.

CC, national curriculums, and the like are simply ways to level the playing field. My older daughter is a graduate teaching assistant and her students' lack of command of English is startling. That's why you need harder schools and more effort to improve. Your kids and mine will be fine, but a college junior who writes at 8th grade level at best is not a pretty sight.
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post #135 of 198 (permalink) Old 01-25-2017, 10:48 AM
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Re: Common Core

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I just do not believe it, john. I spent many years in a rural public school district, not a wealthy one, either. Yet lower elementary school classes had 14 or 15 kids, upper 25 or so. My high school Algebra II class had 4 students. My English class that year had 8. A really big class had 20, and a huge class 26.

The teachers were dedicated. Maybe because teacher reputation mattered so much in a rural community? Not sure. They all wrote their own curriculum. Many were the entire, or half, of the whole department.

There were vocational students in the school as well as college bound kids. It was always interesting to hear what everyone planned to do after high school.

I am not really sure any of these school reforms work as well as they are advertised. People seem to get the education they need for the jobs they want. I just hate to see families so stressed out in the meantime.
The kids from your childhood area are most likely being bused 60 to 90 minutes each way to attend a school that have larger classes and well, taken all together allows the state to spend less money on education.
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