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post #121 of 148 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 01:20 PM
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Re: Examples of how the German Leftists are destroying their civilization

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There is the problem...right there....Some ideas just suck....there is a problem when we can;t just call a spade a spade.
that idea is progressivism and highly touted by the liberal elite in the US right now...

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post #122 of 148 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 11:48 PM
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Re: Examples of how the German Leftists are destroying their civilization

And we can see the bloodbath in the us that has resulted from not keeping a close enough eye on Muslims.

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that idea is progressivism and highly touted by the liberal elite in the US right now...
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post #123 of 148 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 06:52 AM
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Re: Examples of how the German Leftists are destroying their civilization

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And we can see the bloodbath in the us that has resulted from not keeping a close enough eye on Muslims.
make drugs legal and the bloodbath drops dramatically. Not all bloodbaths have the same cause.... Gang violence in the US is the #1 'root cause'.
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post #124 of 148 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 07:40 AM
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Re: Examples of how the German Leftists are destroying their civilization

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Isn't being committed to ideals like freedom of religion, even at the risk of death a good thing? Isn't that what America is based on?

In any case, in the US, the risk is tiny. Even counting 9/11, deaths from terrorism are tiny compared to other risks that we happily accept (cars, guns etc).
But this isn't a freedom of religion issue. Instead, it's a freedom of speech issue. The left want to control the debate re Islam in the west - therefore the contest of ideas which is meant to weed out all the weak arguments isn't allowed to happen. Therefore, the common person isn't privy to the truth of the situation, which means that people are prevented from making rational decisions which are based on an examination of all viewpoints - even the challenging non pc viewpoints.

As a conservative guy who values individualism, I have no problem with a society/community changing, including changing their religious beliefs. However, this is only if the said society/community is allowed to change slowly and organically, from the bottom up. If a society/community changes of its own accord in a natural fashion, then of course I am okay with that. However, Germany, and the globalists in general, are hell bent on forcing demographic and cultural changes upon their societies/communities from the top down. This is evil and must be resisted. If Germany repeats its migrant take from 2016 in 2017, then 20% of Germany's all important 17 - 35 demographic will consist of newly arrived migrants - migrants from an alien, patriarchal, culturally confident and fertile community. This is a violent top down disruption to the natural development of the host population, deliberately orchestrated by the elites in German politics. The grandchildren of today's indigenous Germans will hate Merkel.

The articles I linked to show the detrimental effects of trying to control "the narrative". Btw, how many Muslim women in the west live **** lives because the pc brigade have shut down any mainstream criticism of the misogyny readily apparent in much of Islamic culture? Why has Merkel imported approx. 1 million Muslims of breeding age into Germany in such a haphazard manner? Should a political leader have the power to radically alter the natural demographics of the community that she is meant to be serving? She has planted a demographic time bomb into her own community, and this is a betrayal of her own people. Imposing change from the top down is evil.

As for your second point, "happily accept?" I can only assume that you mean that you are happy that your government spends billions of dollars per year to keep the number of terrorist attacks acceptably low for you. You also seem to be saying that you are happy with the increasingly intrusive security measures that US citizens have to endure in order to keep the numbers of deaths at an acceptable low level. Well, okay, that's you. As for me, I remember a time when I was free from this bull ****, and I want that to once again be the lived experience for my children. I guess it depends on where a person's sense of priorities lies.
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post #125 of 148 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 07:56 AM
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Re: Examples of how the German Leftists are destroying their civilization

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How different is it from blue collar conservatives voting consistently against their own self interests?
Earlier you asked Kivlor how many years has he studied at university, well, how many blue collar workers are you personally close with? I find that, generally, you are a thoughtful poster and I regularly read your contributions. However, this comment of yours drips with condescension. It demonstrates the typical view of the left re the working class - ie you people are so dumb that you need us to tell you what's good for you.

Well, I live and work with many folk from the working classes, and some of the wisest people I know come from this group. I have also studied at university and still have quite a lot to do with some of the campuses where I live, and I can tell you, that there is a special kind of stupid that can only be developed by spending too much time in the humanities faculties at universities. Marxist academics who live their professional lives in government funded sheltered workshops, and who don't have their radical ideas tested by the free market, are not the type of people that I look to if I am seeking wisdom/expertise.
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post #126 of 148 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 09:59 AM
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Re: Examples of how the German Leftists are destroying their civilization

I was being sarcastic bout the bloodbath in the US. Deaths from terrorism are very minimal.

I do completely agree with legalizing drugs. Stops most crime in the US. Fixes the drug cartel problem in Mexico and central america. Removes the Taliban's main source of income. Basically makes the world a better place. The problem is that there is just too much money involved in both selling drugs, AND in fighting drugs.

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make drugs legal and the bloodbath drops dramatically. Not all bloodbaths have the same cause.... Gang violence in the US is the #1 'root cause'.
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post #127 of 148 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 10:04 AM
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Re: Examples of how the German Leftists are destroying their civilization

The left and right both want to control the debate - no surprise there. Both have difficulty dealing with the reality that the great majority of Muslims are just normal people, but there there are also extremists.

My comment on security was that I will accept increased risk with less security. I spend a lot of my life on airliners and I would be happy to reduce airport security and take a higher risk of dying.


I remember the rosy past you remember - but I remember it differently. I remember duck and cover. I remember the near certainty that we were all going to die in a nuclear war. I remember when minorities and women in the US had equal rights in name only.



Many things in the US are a LOT better, so the tiny risk of terrorism is a small price to pay.



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Originally Posted by old red View Post
But this isn't a freedom of religion issue. Instead, it's a freedom of speech issue. The left want to control the debate re Islam in the west - therefore the contest of ideas which is meant to weed out all the weak arguments isn't allowed to happen. Therefore, the common person isn't privy to the truth of the situation, which means that people are prevented from making rational decisions which are based on an examination of all viewpoints - even the challenging non pc viewpoints.

As a conservative guy who values individualism, I have no problem with a society/community changing, including changing their religious beliefs. However, this is only if the said society/community is allowed to change slowly and organically, from the bottom up. If a society/community changes of its own accord in a natural fashion, then of course I am okay with that. However, Germany, and the globalists in general, are hell bent on forcing demographic and cultural changes upon their societies/communities from the top down. This is evil and must be resisted. If Germany repeats its migrant take from 2016 in 2017, then 20% of Germany's all important 17 - 35 demographic will consist of newly arrived migrants - migrants from an alien, patriarchal, culturally confident and fertile community. This is a violent top down disruption to the natural development of the host population, deliberately orchestrated by the elites in German politics. The grandchildren of today's indigenous Germans will hate Merkel.

The articles I linked to show the detrimental effects of trying to control "the narrative". Btw, how many Muslim women in the west live **** lives because the pc brigade have shut down any mainstream criticism of the misogyny readily apparent in much of Islamic culture? Why has Merkel imported approx. 1 million Muslims of breeding age into Germany in such a haphazard manner? Should a political leader have the power to radically alter the natural demographics of the community that she is meant to be serving? She has planted a demographic time bomb into her own community, and this is a betrayal of her own people. Imposing change from the top down is evil.

As for your second point, "happily accept?" I can only assume that you mean that you are happy that your government spends billions of dollars per year to keep the number of terrorist attacks acceptably low for you. You also seem to be saying that you are happy with the increasingly intrusive security measures that US citizens have to endure in order to keep the numbers of deaths at an acceptable low level. Well, okay, that's you. As for me, I remember a time when I was free from this bull ****, and I want that to once again be the lived experience for my children. I guess it depends on where a person's sense of priorities lies.
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post #128 of 148 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 10:42 AM
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Re: Examples of how the German Leftists are destroying their civilization

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Originally Posted by old red View Post
Earlier you asked Kivlor how many years has he studied at university, well, how many blue collar workers are you personally close with? I find that, generally, you are a thoughtful poster and I regularly read your contributions. However, this comment of yours drips with condescension. It demonstrates the typical view of the left re the working class - ie you people are so dumb that you need us to tell you what's good for you.

Well, I live and work with many folk from the working classes, and some of the wisest people I know come from this group. I have also studied at university and still have quite a lot to do with some of the campuses where I live, and I can tell you, that there is a special kind of stupid that can only be developed by spending too much time in the humanities faculties at universities. Marxist academics who live their professional lives in government funded sheltered workshops, and who don't have their radical ideas tested by the free market, are not the type of people that I look to if I am seeking wisdom/expertise.
My educational background deals with the decision analysis and the psychology of decision making. I do not say what I say lightly, and it's not condescension you sense, but reality. Lots of it.

As for Marxism is schools that hasn't been my family's experience in 30 years of college and counting...
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post #129 of 148 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 11:20 AM
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Re: Examples of how the German Leftists are destroying their civilization

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I was being sarcastic bout the bloodbath in the US. Deaths from terrorism are very minimal.

I do completely agree with legalizing drugs. Stops most crime in the US. Fixes the drug cartel problem in Mexico and central america. Removes the Taliban's main source of income. Basically makes the world a better place. The problem is that there is just too much money involved in both selling drugs, AND in fighting drugs.
However, deaths from terrorism will go up (and they have in Europe already) due to the huge surge in immigrants, primarily (read almost 100% due to those) from the Middle East. it doesn't take a degree in rocket science to see the reason why and to understand that we probably would be a lot better off to NOT emulate Europe on whole sale letting anyone in from the Middle East.
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post #130 of 148 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 06:42 PM
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Re: Examples of how the German Leftists are destroying their civilization

I don't see any trending increase in terrorism in the US. The refugee situation here is very different. Since we are geographically remote we can choose who to accept, and bring them in through a orderly legal process.

In the Mediterranean, large numbers of refugees arrive in extremely dangerous boats, and countries are forced to either accept them, or be responsible for large numbers of deaths. (could you really turn around a leaking boat with families and children to face likely drowning??).




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However, deaths from terrorism will go up (and they have in Europe already) due to the huge surge in immigrants, primarily (read almost 100% due to those) from the Middle East. it doesn't take a degree in rocket science to see the reason why and to understand that we probably would be a lot better off to NOT emulate Europe on whole sale letting anyone in from the Middle East.


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post #131 of 148 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 02:32 AM
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Re: Examples of how the German Leftists are destroying their civilization

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The left and right both want to control the debate - no surprise there. Both have difficulty dealing with the reality that the great majority of Muslims are just normal people, but there there are also extremists.

Well, I can't comment on the US, but in my country it's only the left who want to control the narrative. The conservative side over here want the debate. PEW demographic studies confirm your second point, as they estimate that between 7 - 10% of the 1.5 billion Muslims in the world are murderous jihadists, with a further 10 - 12% of this population being non-murderous supporters of those who are willing to wage jihad. That means that there is nothing to fear from over 80% of Muslims worldwide. That doesn't mean that this 80 +% population doesn't hold anti western beliefs, such as death for apostates and gays, etc. However, this minority of jihadists and jihadist supporters are very determined and highly effective - as evidence, consider the cost of the anti terrorist initiatives in any western country. So, sadly, without extreme vetting, the more Muslims that you let in, the more terrorist attacks you will experience.

My comment on security was that I will accept increased risk with less security. I spend a lot of my life on airliners and I would be happy to reduce airport security and take a higher risk of dying.

Well, that's you, I would prefer less intrusion by authorities and greater security. One of the most harrowing things that I have ever read is the eye witness testimony of the father who lost his 8 year old son to the Boston bomber. His daughter also lost her leg, his wife has brain injuries and he has lost most of his hearing in one ear. Still, I am glad that you can have such a cavalier attitude to terrorist violence.


I remember the rosy past you remember - but I remember it differently. I remember duck and cover. I remember the near certainty that we were all going to die in a nuclear war. I remember when minorities and women in the US had equal rights in name only.

Really? Where were you in August 2001? In regards to women and minorities, my understanding is that people from all four corners of the globe have been coming to the US in droves for at least the last half century. Odd that they would risk so much to come to such a hell-hole. Or, maybe you are just wrong about your country and don't value what it has done well enough.



Many things in the US are a LOT better, so the tiny risk of terrorism is a small price to pay.
Where is the link between carelessly letting large numbers of improperly screened migrants from volatile lands into your country and the US being better? I don't think that they are better for that Dad I mentioned earlier. You also under estimate the amazing work done by the anti terrorist forces in your country. Imagine the carnage if they weren't so effective. Your dismissive attitude reminds me of these lines by Rudyard Kipling: "Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep." Every country and culture has things about it which are wrong/evil and (almost) every culture and country has things about it which are a gift to humanity. What I don't get is the tendency for so much self hate amongst progressives while white-washing the atrocities of others.

Last edited by old red; 02-04-2017 at 05:37 AM.
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post #132 of 148 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 02:35 AM
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Re: Examples of how the German Leftists are destroying their civilization

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My educational background deals with the decision analysis and the psychology of decision making. I do not say what I say lightly, and it's not condescension you sense, but reality. Lots of it.

As for Marxism is schools that hasn't been my family's experience in 30 years of college and counting...

So you do know better than the unwashed masses - got it...
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post #133 of 148 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 02:53 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Examples of how the German Leftists are destroying their civilization

I've pixelated the picture on the left, as that's a pretty gruesome, severed head.



The left and their need to take in everyone, including those who want to conquer them.
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post #134 of 148 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 06:19 AM
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Re: Examples of how the German Leftists are destroying their civilization

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So you do know better than the unwashed masses - got it...
Hard as it may seem to believe, I do know better than the average single issue voter who blindly votes the party line.

At the risk of repeating the "don't hate me because I'm beautiful" hair shampoo commercial, I have lived the American dream far better than my fellow Kentuckians who just voted to get rid of black lung disease coverage...

All this education and life experiences don't make me better than most people. They make me more likely to - assuming I'm willing - use critical thinking rather than reptilian ways to make my decisions.
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post #135 of 148 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 06:27 AM
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Re: Examples of how the German Leftists are destroying their civilization

The atrocities committed by the Germans in WW2 in my birth country and especially my home town are in par with anything coming out of Syria these days.

People have very short memories, especially since the Waffen didn't have Instagram to showcase their activities back then. Less than a generation later we are all a "happy European family". Same for many other nations, I'm just using Germany as an example.
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