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post #31 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 09:00 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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The fact that they actually suggested HSAs as a replacement for ACA is laughable. Only the top 1% (or maybe 5%) could afford to pay their healthcare bills using an HSA and no health insurance. The rest of America would go bankrupt.
This is the first year we were forced into an HSA at work. The excuse was that 89% of new hires chose it. All the youngsters.

I have two friends who are screwed. One has a wife who needs a $5k a month drug to survive. The other has a kid with MD. The admins have taken collections of cash to help with bills.

Both guys have worked here for 20-25 years. Both used to have good insurance. Sayonara.

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post #32 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 10:20 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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This is the first year we were forced into an HSA at work. The excuse was that 89% of new hires chose it. All the youngsters.

I have two friends who are screwed. One has a wife who needs a $5k a month drug to survive. The other has a kid with MD. The admins have taken collections of cash to help with bills.

Both guys have worked here for 20-25 years. Both used to have good insurance. Sayonara.
Well thats just their fault John. They didnt plan very well.

Same thing the self righteous would have told my Dad when he was diagnosed with Parkinson's at 40 something. Before you could change insurance if you had a pre-existing condition. Before drug coverage was common with insurance.

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post #33 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 06:44 AM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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It also means, if it ever gets repealed, that those on welfare would not be covered anymore. That would be a good thing. Why should taxpayers get saddled with providing healthcare for those who won't work. It's bad enough there's so much welfare fraud. The ACA was a terrible idea and a horrible way to spend taxpayers dollars.
BUT BUT BUT... many people who work even full time jobs still can not afford to live, pay rent, utilities, a car payment, loans, etc and qualify for some of these "Welfare" benefits, including medicaid... For the last few days I have been scouring the net about these issues... I am basically SICK..

There are many people who truly feel.... "Just let them die"...it's their fault they are where they are, not my concern, not my taxes"... yet never think of the Greed of the CEOs (Their average pay package last year was $22.6 million, up from $20.7 million in 2013).. meanwhile minimum wage WORKERS- working full time jobs...what do they earn....$20,000 a year to live on... if 2 are working full time.. they will be lucky to make $50,000 a year.. what if they have 2 kids....

There is an "Ethics and Morality" thread going on in there right now.. You know what.. if this is anyone's attitude when we live in the Richest country in this world with CEO pay being what it is against the working man.. shame shame on you..

I used to be a conservative.. but my eyes have been opened .... my family could fall through these cracks.. we have worked all our lives (well I did raise kids, staying at home - many would call this foolish... we've lived our lives around Jobs that offered health care benefits... this was monumentally important to us..... .I feel this is the sole reason we've have Hope and prosperity over the years.. my credit score is 820..I handle ALL the money.. we've never been late on a bill.. we are meticulously careful with our finances, always lived below our means...(I am proud of this even if we're not rich people).... we've been able to make it..

But it's because Health care was there... if this goes , is ripped from us at any given time...if he looses his good paying blue collar job... if we fall through the medicaid cracks, during a layoff .. would we even be able to afford Marketplace health care for 7 of us!! .. I shudder to think how much that would EAT of our pay if we both were working lousy paying full time jobs ... (we live in a high unemployment area, jobs with benefits are hard to come by even for $9 an hour)....this could eat $2,000 a month. then still have a whopping deductible to meet if something happened (thankfully we've all been very healthy- but you never know!)...

If God forbid we had a lapse in coverage in between jobs (heard something about deadlines for this Marketplace coverage? )...let's say I get cancer...there was a lapse in coverage or they wouldn't accept me if Benefits were dropped & started (those pre-existing conditions)... seriously we'd stand to loose everything we worked for -for the last 27 yrs of our marriage...

Is this really OK ?? I may choose to just die.. I wouldn't want my family to loose everything.

If I had a choice between food or health care.. I'd take the health care.. at least with food, one can shop at Garage sales, find a local Pantry, use coupons to lower your cost... with health care.. there is Nothing... we are solely at the mercy of sky rocketing insane charges while someone's pockets are being lined - I wish more outrage existed in our society over this ...it's something I just don't understand..

Perspective: Skyrocketing health care costs are caused by political corruption | Center for Health Journalism

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post #34 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 07:18 AM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Just saw this:

As his first order of business the new President signed an executive order to repeal the ACA.

Why don't you quote your sources because this is blatantly incorrect, and an outright lie.

Trump signed order that directs federal agencies to ease the “regulatory burdens” of ObamaCare. It orders agencies to “waive, defer, grant exemptions from, or delay the implementation of any provision or requirement” of ObamaCare that imposes a “fiscal burden on any State or a cost, fee, tax, penalty, or regulatory burden on individuals, families, healthcare providers, health insurers, patients, recipients of healthcare services, purchasers of health insurance, or makers of medical devices, products, or medications.

My source? The part in both is taken DIRECTLY from the executive order.
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post #35 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 07:25 AM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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The ACA is/was saving them thousands per year between premiums and reducing the cost of my dad's prescriptions, and when my mom figured that out, she changed her tune right quick.
But on the other hand, the rest of us are paying her costs.

The problem with health care is that everyone wants someone else to pay their bills. There is no bottomless well of money. If everyone wants unlimited coverage, then the country goes bankrupt.

The only way to provide universal, government paid health care is if it is rationed.
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post #36 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 07:25 AM Thread Starter
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Why don't you quote your sources because this is blatantly incorrect, and an outright lie.

Trump signed order that directs federal agencies to ease the “regulatory burdens” of ObamaCare. It orders agencies to “waive, defer, grant exemptions from, or delay the implementation of any provision or requirement” of ObamaCare that imposes a “fiscal burden on any State or a cost, fee, tax, penalty, or regulatory burden on individuals, families, healthcare providers, health insurers, patients, recipients of healthcare services, purchasers of health insurance, or makers of medical devices, products, or medications.

My source? The part in both is taken DIRECTLY from the executive order.
The source was Facebook. No other info was given, which is why I asked about it here.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #37 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 07:29 AM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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I meant news sources, say recent interviews with Congresspeople. Not a campaign platform.
How is the word of a congressperson more "real" than the word of the President? Since the bills have not been drafted or published yet, all that exists is policy. (It is no longer a campaign platform since Trump WON the election.) Now his site lists his policies - what he intends to do. Whether or not he can get them signed into law is another matter.

Having a congressperson on the other side spin and lie about the President's publicly stated policies is not "news".
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post #38 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 07:42 AM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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The source was Facebook. No other info was given, which is why I asked about it here.
You didn't ask that in your OP. You printed false news without any question or request. It was only after a poster gave a contrary position that you asked him for sources.

This highlights the dangers of the ill informed. They read someone else's 1) interpretation or even worse 2) outright agenda driven lies and think that is truth. Then they send it to all their "friends".

IMO, to answer your question, the best source of policy right now is Trump's site. It lists what he wants to accomplish, right or wrong. ANYTHING else is just someone else's intepretation. You can also read the Democratic parties platform on its site to see what their policy is, other than just blocking anything Trump proposes. Their site will list what they want.

The short executive orders are much easier to understand that the bills themselves, which will be hundreds or thousands of pages of legal wording that few can understand.
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post #39 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 07:44 AM Thread Starter
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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How is the word of a congressperson more "real" than the word of the President? Since the bills have not been drafted or published yet, all that exists is policy. (It is no longer a campaign platform since Trump WON the election.) Now his site lists his policies - what he intends to do. Whether or not he can get them signed into law is another matter.

Having a congressperson on the other side spin and lie about the President's publicly stated policies is not "news".
Congress has to pass it, no? To me it would seem more informative to hear what Congress is saying about it than the president, some of whose positions on various issues from the beginning of his campaign until now seem to waver.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #40 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 07:46 AM Thread Starter
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Originally Posted by blueinbr View Post
You didn't ask that in your OP. You printed false news without any question or request. It was only after a poster gave a contrary position that you asked him for sources.

This highlights the dangers of the ill informed. They read someone else's 1) interpretation or even worse 2) outright agenda driven lies and think that is truth. Then they send it to all their "friends".

IMO, to answer your question, the best source of policy right now is Trump's site. It lists what he wants to accomplish, right or wrong. ANYTHING else is just someone else's intepretation. You can also read the Democratic parties platform on its site to see what their policy is, other than just blocking anything Trump proposes. Their site will list what they want.

The short executive orders are much easier to understand that the bills themselves, which will be hundreds or thousands of pages of legal wording that few can understand.
Starting a thread invites responses, blue. And it got them.


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #41 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 07:47 AM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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But on the other hand, the rest of us are paying her costs.

The problem with health care is that everyone wants someone else to pay their bills. There is no bottomless well of money. If everyone wants unlimited coverage, then the country goes bankrupt.

The only way to provide universal, government paid health care is if it is rationed.
I completely understand this part.. and some hard choices will have to be made...we all have to understand this .. if we want Universal..... I worked with the handicapped.. there are things I witnessed there...looking at charts.. how many Doc visits, diagnosis for a woman blind, deaf & brain damaged ...Just imagining the cost to the taxpayer for this.. . surely covered completely by the Government.... many have been abandoned by family....we take well care of our handicapped right now.. but then we destruct and leave behind the American worker and his family... this shouldn't be..

Me personally... I want to live in a state that allows us the "right to die" -with dignity...can't see why the hell this is fought against Republicans.. makes no sense to me, then they want all these babies to live -while at the same time don't give a da** whether they suffer & die since health care is not their problem..

If my quality of life goes.. I want to go ... I see no need after a certain age to get a mammogram...I would think the younger among us who get cancer deserves more consideration over the old who have lived their lives..

Meanwhile... I think this should be just as much of a concern ....

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post #42 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 07:53 AM Thread Starter
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Re: If ACA is repealed

"All public and private healthcare systems ration patient access to health care. The private sector rations access by charging market prices to patients, with demand driven by a person's ability and willingness to pay. Public systems generally ration care on the basis of a patient’s need, for example by covering priority cost-effective treatments, and through the use of waiting lists. Patients may also be asked to make a co-payment."

WHO | Benefits and rationing

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #43 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 08:07 AM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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"All public and private healthcare systems ration patient access to health care. The private sector rations access by charging market prices to patients, with demand driven by a person's ability and willingness to pay. Public systems generally ration care on the basis of a patient’s need, for example by covering priority cost-effective treatments, and through the use of waiting lists. Patients may also be asked to make a co-payment."

WHO | Benefits and rationing
Me personally.. I care FAR MORE to have a catastrophic policy over one that pays for a free screening every year.. ya know.. all my life.. I blew off those yearly Pediatrician visits.... I didn't feel it was necessary, why waste even my Insurance Co's money... they were healthy.. to the point the Doc was telling me he hadn't seen then in a couple years.. I need to bring them in.. I only go to the Doc when something is wrong.. more than the common cold...

Everyone will have a different opinion on this, of course... but all these FREE 1 year screenings I think is a waste of money, especially if one is young & healthy....

Another is.. we have sons in sports..I remember one year - they just had a yearly physical ... here I had to send them right back there due to this special sports exam they needed for school... WHY! why can't they use the same damn form? Our insurance covered both.. but still -that was a colossal waste of money, when this is repeated over & over & over again by millions of American families.... there is so much waste due to rules on the books.. where this $$ could be put to so much better use, for someone who really needs it, like a child with cancer or a debilitating disease.. ..
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post #44 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 08:10 AM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Congress has to pass it, no? To me it would seem more informative to hear what Congress is saying about it than the president, some of whose positions on various issues from the beginning of his campaign until now seem to waver.
Since you asked me a question, my answer is "No." There are 535 congresspersons and you will get a different spin based on their party and their agenda. Even then, there are many bills that might be proposed, each with different content, and many amendments will be proposed. Ultimately it comes down to ONE signature, that of the President.

So it is not more informative to hear what congress is saying.

Specifically what positions of his campaign are beginning to wave? And cite you sources.

If anything, Trump seems to be keeping to his earlier position.

That he may not "lock her up" is a gracious gesture on his part that was expected.

Immigration Executive Orders: President Trump Keeps His Campaign Promises and Commences the ?Fix? on US Immigration | The National Law Review

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post #45 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 08:10 AM Thread Starter
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Me personally.. I care FAR MORE to have a catastrophic policy over one that pays for a free screening every year.. ya know.. all my life.. I skipped doctors visits for my kids.. I didn't feel it was necessary, why waste even my Insurance Co's money... they were healthy.. to the point the Doc was telling me he hadn't seen then in a few years.. I need to bring them in.. I only go to the Doc when something is wrong.. more than the common cold...

Everyone will have a different opinion on this, of course... but all these FREE 1 year screenings I think is a waste of money, especially if one is young & healthy....

Another is.. we have sons in sports..I remember one year - they just had a yearly physical ... here I had to send them right back there due to this special sports exam they needed for school... WHY! why can't they use the same damn form? Our insurance covered both.. but still -that was a colossal waste of money, when this is repeated over & over & over again by millions of American families.... there is so much waste due to rules on the books.. where this $$ could be put to so much better use, for someone who really needs it, like a child with cancer or a debilitating disease.. ..
I skipped a lot of those visits, too, SA.

But you definitely want care available when it is needed.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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