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post #76 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 11:53 AM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Originally Posted by SimplyAmorous View Post
And here is the thing about car insurance.. many of us have impeccable records.. we don't Drink...never caused an accident.... but we have to SHARE the cost to cover all these irresponsible people who drink & drive, don't we...



Shouldn't health coverage be a similar model...



People need the coverage.. or it can destroy and completely upset everything we've worked for.. we don't allow it on the roads.. but we allow it in our homes, is our vehicles more important than our lives ... affordable health care should be a value in this country..


It already is that model. That's why it's called insurance.

Convince the doctors to work for less money.

Most insurance companies are either non profit or make money by processing claims for the large self insured corporation.

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post #77 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 12:00 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Originally Posted by Emerging Buddhist View Post
My state system covers all who meet indigent, free and reduced, illegal... there is a plan for all who cannot afford it.
Then there are stories like this... I just have a problem with it.. we could be any one of these people at some point in our lives...

Falling Through the Cracks: My Healthcare Marketplace Story


Quote:
I'm one of the people who won't be getting health insurance through the Affordable Care Act next year. I would really like to have insurance, but it's not possible.

I'm currently part time employed as a substitute teacher in Michigan. This is not by choice, I live in an area where there simply are no jobs to apply for, and the jobs I do apply for have so many applicants it's very tough to even get an interview. This means I live well below the poverty level. I qualify for SNAP benefits, which helps me survive. Health care has been beyond my reach since I was laid off in 2009.

I hoped once the Medicaid expansion passed in my state I may qualify for that. If not, then one of the health care plans provided in the marketplace website would be subsidized low enough I could afford the payments. I was wrong on both.

Despite my income level I still do not qualify for Medicaid under the expansion that was approved in Michigan last September. This is what I really hoped would allow me to at least get a foot in the door to see a doctor.

.... I looked at the health insurance plans provided in the state of Michigan. The cheapest plan would require me to pay almost half of what I make in a month. Only 60% of health costs covered, $5,500 deductible, and $20 copays just to walk in the door of a doctor's office. The monthly premium for that insurance plan is $262.00 per month. Did I mention I'm poor?

So no Medicaid, and the insurance is too expensive. If I could afford it, I would sign up for health insurance, but it's just not possible with my current income level.

Are you ready for the fun part? I called the toll-free number to confirm this was the case, and after waiting over twenty minutes on the phone I was informed that "unfortunately, some people fall through the cracks." Because I fall through the cracks, the nice man on the phone informed me I will now have to pay $95 in penalty fees (Although he said they weren't supposed to call it a penalty, even though it is) per year because I'm too poor for health insurance.

The obvious answer to my problem, and every other person's problem who falls through the cracks is Medicare for everyone. A simple solution that would have made sure everyone could have some health coverage regardless of income. This is why certain people in Washington made sure a single payer option wasn't included in ACA, because it would simply solve the health care crisis we have in the United States. Our current government prefers creating crises, not solving them.

I'm disappointed, I really looked forward to having health care again.
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post #78 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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There is a different between cost and price. If the French want to charge you a price of $8, that is their decision However, if the true "cost", which means labor, equipment, overhead, supplies, etc adds to more than $8, then you were subsidized. Certainly it cost more than $1 to do that blood test.
We don't know the "true cost" of that blood test. I am not sure that $8 is an unrealistic estimate.

We certainly do benefit from their societal investment in what looks to me like efficient health care.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #79 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Then there are stories like this... I just have a problem with it.. we could be any one of these people at some point in our lives...

Falling Through the Cracks: My Healthcare Marketplace Story
Totally agree. Medicare for all sounds like a good idea.

I remember reading about one man who waited until he was 65 to start a business just because then he would not have to worry about paying so much for health care coverage. How many other would be entrepreneurs have been held back by health care costs?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #80 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 12:32 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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It already is that model. That's why it's called insurance.

Convince the doctors to work for less money.

Most insurance companies are either non profit or make money by processing claims for the large self insured corporation.
Ok.. I get it.. you are in the camp that just doesn't see the need take care of the little people.. but turn a blind eye to Greed -just because it's "a Free Market"..that's the value..... oh there are plenty of you out there...

So it's perfectly fine strapping a (2) 40 hr working class couple with kids.. with paying like over $1,000+ a month for health insurance that may only pay 60% with a deductible as high at maybe $8,000 a year when this family only earns like $50,000 a year to live on ....imagine if they had a health crisis.. that is $12,000 a year in monthly payments plus another $8,000 !! and not even factoring in what the 40% was ! This brings their income down to $30,000 already -then maybe another $5,000 in more health care costs...

So now we're down to $25,000 to live on... At least in our case we are debt free...but there are still college costs (2 sons), or they will have to drop out, utilities, Gas for all our driving to 2 jobs, college...vehicle repairs, house repairs, FOOD! ...

I've seen people post here on this forum...who can't even imagine trying to live on an income less than $100,000 with kids.. we've always done it and dang well for that matter.. but we never had to worry about health care costs like this.. it has in effect "saved our a$$es"..

This past year I had a mole that was in the beginning stages of Melanoma...my husband had a mole removed that was a Basal cell sarcoma (we had our skin cancers together- sweet!)... we made a nice chunk more than $50,000 so even if we had a deducible of $8,000 (plus paying $12,000 just to have this insurance, we probably could have done it).. but if our income suddenly got reduced to $45,000 with us both working (he is bracing for a lay off).... this is very frightening ...especially for me.. I am a worrier....a sense of pure hopelessness will wash over me...

Feeling like we were working solely to afford not to die and preserve all we've built over the years. Forget a little vacation, those days are gone... forget even buying pizza out.. I just really feel for those who can't afford the alternatives... if my husband gets laid off.. we probably would qualify for Medicaid but we'd have to kick our oldest son out of the house. .if they figured his unemployment in there.. it would put us over the edge...with me working full time... so yeah.. I fear what we'd face with affording these "Marketplace" options... given all the stories I have heard from other working families around me..

I have a friend.. her husband pays a hefty price a month.. their Deductible is $10,000 a year.. they have 2 kids.. we talked about this when I visited their Garage sale over the summer...I assume he makes about $50,000 a year, surely no more than $70,000... has a house payment, a car payment.... he went to the Dermatologist, wanted to pay out of pocket.. she refused him without insurance.. here he has a mole on his face that is growing...what if it's cancer... he won't go.. I told him he NEEDS TO GO...

I don't know.. it's just sad that someone who is making $500,000 a year have plans that cover every damn thing.. but then someone like this .. ends up paying a large chunk of their already low income all on health care.. it's not OK.. dang it..
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post #81 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 12:55 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Originally Posted by VladDracul View Post
Its simple. If they can keep everybody focused on health insurance, the medical industry avoids drawing attention to the cost/profits of medical delivery. The question of why medical cost per person is much higher in the U.S. than anywhere else needs to be answered with something other than, "because we have the best health care in the world". We all seem predisposed to believe the more something cost, the better is and the medical industry has applied it to their advantage. Hence, the $200 blood test in the U.S. is far superior than the $8 blood test in France.
One could use my example of a bill (post #62)...it was $948 for lab work.. and that was 4 yrs ago yet!
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post #82 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 01:03 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Originally Posted by SimplyAmorous View Post
And here is the thing about car insurance.. many of us have impeccable records.. we don't Drink...never caused an accident.... but we have to SHARE the cost to cover all these irresponsible people who drink & drive, don't we...

Shouldn't health coverage be a similar model...

People need the coverage.. or it can destroy and completely upset everything we've worked for.. we don't allow it on the roads.. but we allow it in our homes, is our vehicles more important than our lives ... affordable health care should be a value in this country..
Auto insurance companies charge people based on their driving/accident history. They even look at a person's credit score. If a person has had a lot of accidents, speeding tickets, DUI, etc. their insurance premiums are much higher. If a person's record is bad enough, they are refused insurance.
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post #83 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 01:19 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

Forgive me for my confusion... @jld and @SimplyAmorous, are you in favor for the ACA, against it, or a modification of it?

In all your sharing I am not sure I understand where belief's lie outside of everyone deserves health care whether they can afford it or not, which I agree with.

I just see us as our own worst enemy, ignoring a free market for those with options and providing immoral path (greed and power) through government mismanagement for those who can't which causes rampant fraud taking away resources from those who need it most.

We know healthcare costs money... it would be right to begin fiscal selectivity and focus our monies where it makes a difference... a nation that offers a true vision of interdependence which all of us exist in.

Of course, it would also help to *"stop wasting our resources trying to re-image countries into our own likeness and be selective in how we manage national and international security" would go a long ways to having the funds to promote life instead of taking it away. It is a relational topic in many ways because money spent there cannot be use here for such.

But focusing on the ACA, please offer me the clarity of your founding promotion or dismissal of it.



*Thanks to Theresa May for making this statement that I reworded for my own clarity, her actual words are below:

The days of Britain and America intervening in sovereign countries in an attempt to remake the world in our own image are over. But nor can we afford to stand idly by when the threat is real and when it is in our own interests to intervene
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post #84 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 01:22 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Originally Posted by EleGirl View Post
Auto insurance companies charge people based on their driving/accident history. They even look at a person's credit score. If a person has had a lot of accidents, speeding tickets, DUI, etc. their insurance premiums are much higher. If a person's record is bad enough, they are refused insurance.
So under this concept, if you take actions that potentially diminish one's health (diet, obesity, tobacco, drink, drugs) you would be forced to pay more or not get it at all.

Choice seems a fair option when applied, who decides?
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post #85 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Forgive me for my confusion... @jld and @SimplyAmorous, are you in favor for the ACA, against it, or a modification of it?

In all your sharing I am not sure I understand where belief's lie outside of everyone deserves health care whether they can afford it or not, which I agree with.

I just see us as our own worst enemy, ignoring a free market for those with options and providing immoral path (greed and power) through government mismanagement for those who can't which causes rampant fraud taking away resources from those who need it most.

We know healthcare costs money... it would be right to begin fiscal selectivity and focus our monies where it makes a difference... a nation that offers a true vision of interdependence which all of us exist in.

Of course, it would also help to *"stop wasting our resources trying to re-image countries into our own likeness and be selective in how we manage national and international security" would go a long ways to having the funds to promote life instead of taking it away. It is a relational topic in many ways because money spent there cannot be use here for such.

But focusing on the ACA, please offer me the clarity of your founding promotion or dismissal of it.



*Thanks to Theresa May for making this statement that I reworded for my own clarity, her actual words are below:

The days of Britain and America intervening in sovereign countries in an attempt to remake the world in our own image are over. But nor can we afford to stand idly by when the threat is real and when it is in our own interests to intervene
I would prefer a single payer system. I really loved the French system when we were living there. Very simple, affordable, and gets the job done.

My doctor took her own phone calls, made her own appointments, took the payments herself, made house calls, and had just one room (plus a small waiting room and bathroom) that she worked out of. If you needed a shot, you went to the pharmacy and bought the vial, then took it over to her and she administered it. Again, very simple. Few middlemen. No wonder it is cheaper.

The ACA is better than what our country had before, with the exclusions for pre-existing conditions and lifetime caps. My son has had cancer twice. It is easy to go over the million dollar limits that existed before.


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #86 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 01:27 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Auto insurance companies charge people based on their driving/accident history. They even look at a person's credit score. If a person has had a lot of accidents, speeding tickets, DUI, etc. their insurance premiums are much higher. If a person's record is bad enough, they are refused insurance.
If you are a good driver, you cannot elect not to have an insurance. Good drivers will pay more in the insurance than they will receive back. It is true that bad drivers pay more, but the really bad drivers will cost more than what they pay in.

For an insurance to work, everyone has to pitch in. And that includes single guys contributing to pregnancy coverage.

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post #87 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 01:29 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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I would prefer a single payer system. I really loved the French system when we were living there. Very simple, affordable, and gets the job done.

My doctor took her own phone calls, made her own appointments, took the payments herself, made house calls, and had just one room (plus a small waiting room and bathroom) that she worked out of. If you needed a shot, you went to the pharmacy and bought the vial, then took it over to her and she administered it. Again, very simple. Few middlemen. No wonder it is cheaper.
I smiled when I read this...


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The ACA is better than what our country had before, with the exclusions for pre-existing conditions and lifetime caps. My son has had cancer twice. It is easy to go over the million dollar limits that existed before.
Health care should be unlimited for children... period.
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post #88 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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I smiled when I read this...




Health care should be unlimited for children... period.
I agree, but why not for their parents, too?

I always wonder why people do not consider the needs of the parents. Do they think children raise themselves?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #89 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 01:34 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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We don't know the "true cost" of that blood test. I am not sure that $8 is an unrealistic estimate.



We certainly do benefit from their societal investment in what looks to me like efficient health care.


Maybe but their economy is not sustainable and is in decline. Review the economic health of the countries that offer socialized medicine.
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post #90 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 01:35 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Forgive me for my confusion... @jld and @SimplyAmorous, are you in favor for the ACA, against it, or a modification of it?

In all your sharing I am not sure I understand where belief's lie outside of everyone deserves health care whether they can afford it or not, which I agree with.
To be honest.. I don't know much about the ACA.. other than I believe the Democrats had GOOD intentions .. it has helped many..I've seen some of them speak on TV how it's saved their lives even.. Just imagine being in their shoes -HOW thankful they are... But at the same time...it was a huge FAIL.. given the example of my friend and other examples where a family is low income but NOT low income enough ....then left to the Mercy of this Marketplace that is still not affordable to many...not when you add up the over all costs -if they had to USE it...

These cracks need to be filled.. where it doesn't destroy a family, making them work near solely just to afford health care costs...

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I just see us as our own worst enemy, ignoring a free market for those with options and providing immoral path (greed and power) through government mismanagement for those who can't which causes rampant fraud taking away resources from those who need it most.
Amen..
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