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post #91 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 01:41 PM
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If ACA is repealed

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Auto insurance companies charge people based on their driving/accident history. They even look at a person's credit score. If a person has had a lot of accidents, speeding tickets, DUI, etc. their insurance premiums are much higher. If a person's record is bad enough, they are refused insurance.


They also charge more based on gender. Men have higher claims than woman and thus pay more. Women have higher medical claims then men. Shouldn't women thus pay more in premiums?

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post #92 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 01:42 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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I agree, but why not for their parents, too?

I always wonder why people do not consider the needs of the parents. Do they think children raise themselves?
Because parents have ability to make choices that enhance or diminish their health... children are innocent in this, they receive a full pass in my eyes.

Parents with good choices would have the money to contribute to a system as they would not be spending it on drugs (tobacco falls into this) or drink (carbonated sodas fall into this too).

How deep we we inspect liberty before we are fully state controlled, or do we simply pay for every adults free choice no matter the cost?
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post #93 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 01:44 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

By the way, this is a wonderful way to have a conversation...
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post #94 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 01:46 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Ok.. I get it.. you are in the camp that just doesn't see the need take care of the little people.. but turn a blind eye to Greed -just because it's "a Free Market"..that's the value..... oh there are plenty of you out there...

So it's perfectly fine strapping a (2) 40 hr working class couple with kids.. with paying like over $1,000+ a month for health insurance that may only pay 60% with a deductible as high at maybe $8,000 a year when this family only earns like $50,000 a year to live on ....imagine if they had a health crisis.. that is $12,000 a year in monthly payments plus another $8,000 !! and not even factoring in what the 40% was ! This brings their income down to $30,000 already -then maybe another $5,000 in more health care costs...

So now we're down to $25,000 to live on... At least in our case we are debt free...but there are still college costs (2 sons), or they will have to drop out, utilities, Gas for all our driving to 2 jobs, college...vehicle repairs, house repairs, FOOD! ...

I've seen people post here on this forum...who can't even imagine trying to live on an income less than $100,000 with kids.. we've always done it and dang well for that matter.. but we never had to worry about health care costs like this.. it has in effect "saved our a$$es"..

This past year I had a mole that was in the beginning stages of Melanoma...my husband had a mole removed that was a Basal cell sarcoma (we had our skin cancers together- sweet!)... we made a nice chunk more than $50,000 so even if we had a deducible of $8,000 (plus paying $12,000 just to have this insurance, we probably could have done it).. but if our income suddenly got reduced to $45,000 with us both working (he is bracing for a lay off).... this is very frightening ...especially for me.. I am a worrier....a sense of pure hopelessness will wash over me...

Feeling like we were working solely to afford not to die and preserve all we've built over the years. Forget a little vacation, those days are gone... forget even buying pizza out.. I just really feel for those who can't afford the alternatives... if my husband gets laid off.. we probably would qualify for Medicaid but we'd have to kick our oldest son out of the house. .if they figured his unemployment in there.. it would put us over the edge...with me working full time... so yeah.. I fear what we'd face with affording these "Marketplace" options... given all the stories I have heard from other working families around me..

I have a friend.. her husband pays a hefty price a month.. their Deductible is $10,000 a year.. they have 2 kids.. we talked about this when I visited their Garage sale over the summer...I assume he makes about $50,000 a year, surely no more than $70,000... has a house payment, a car payment.... he went to the Dermatologist, wanted to pay out of pocket.. she refused him without insurance.. here he has a mole on his face that is growing...what if it's cancer... he won't go.. I told him he NEEDS TO GO...

I don't know.. it's just sad that someone who is making $500,000 a year have plans that cover every damn thing.. but then someone like this .. ends up paying a large chunk of their already low income all on health care.. it's not OK.. dang it..


You are making incorrect assumptions about me. My wife had massive surgery last year. I am saving all the money are can for future health costs. I probably won't ever retire due to need to cover health costs.
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post #95 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Originally Posted by Emerging Buddhist View Post
Because parents have ability to make choices that enhance or diminish their health... children are innocent in this, they receive a full pass in my eyes.

Parents with good choices would have the money to contribute to a system as they would not be spending it on drugs (tobacco falls into this) or drink (carbonated sodas fall into this too).

How deep we we inspect liberty before we are fully state controlled, or do we simply pay for every adults free choice no matter the cost?
Because every serious health condition comes from smoking or soda pop?

My son has had AML twice. Terrible cancer.

Not at all restricted to children, EB. And has nothing to do with smoking or soda pop.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #96 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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You are making incorrect assumptions about me. My wife had massive surgery last year. I am saving all the money are can for future health costs. I probably won't ever retire due to need to cover health costs.
Then you ought to know better than anyone the need for universal coverage.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #97 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 01:59 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Then you ought to know better than anyone the need for universal coverage.

Unless the care is rationed.

Look at the number of veterans who died waiting for healthcare.
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post #98 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:00 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Because every serious health condition comes from smoking or soda pop?

My son has had AML twice. Terrible cancer.

Not at all restricted to children, EB. And has nothing to do with smoking or soda pop.
No, I am not talking about those that find themselves in that position, I am talking about those with choices that impact their health and the ability to prevent related illnesses due to poor health choices.

Again, how broad a brush is proper? If you believe no one should decide who does and doesn't, I don't believe there will be many takers for such a system.

I would happily pay for programs to remove such things... not a system that continues to allow it.

If you son has no money for cancer treatment and he lived in my state, he would still get it regardless and I'd happily pay for it, which I do.

I do hope your son has all in remission and is doing well, kind thoughts his way and yours.
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post #99 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:02 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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You are making incorrect assumptions about me. My wife had massive surgery last year. I am saving all the money are can for future health costs. I probably won't ever retire due to need to cover health costs.
Like our family...you probably have a decent company health care plan... NO? ... Have you ever been in the shoes of someone who hasn't had coverage, needed it & it wasn't there?...or could hardly afford to eat, pay rent/ bills -when it is consuming nearly 30% + of their income ??

Maybe that would make a good thread.. how much does your family spend on health care/ Medical bills alone (monthly - yearly).. and how much do you earn a living/ or family earns .. to see who really is struggling in this regard....

The idea of retiring at a younger age..we wouldn't entertain that either.. just not going to happen...
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post #100 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Unless the care is rationed.

Look at the number of veterans who died waiting for healthcare.
The ACA took away the lifetime limits.

Now, thanks to those who voted for Trump, they may be coming back in.


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #101 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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No, I am not talking about those that find themselves in that position, I am talking about those with choices that impact their health and the ability to prevent related illnesses due to poor health choices.

Again, how broad a brush is proper? If you believe no one should decide who does and doesn't, I don't believe there will be many takers for such a system.

I would happily pay for programs to remove such things... not a system that continues to allow it.

If you son has no money for cancer treatment and he lived in my state, he would still get it regardless and I'd happily pay for it, which I do.

I do hope your son has all in remission and is doing well, kind thoughts his way and yours.
Thank you. He turns 18 next month so would no longer be eligible for a state program, afaik. He will be on Dug's insurance until he graduates from college and has his own job and insurance.

If we really want to crack down on smoking and soda, or other things that may cause illness, then we need, as a society, to make it unappealing. Tax the heck out of it. Do a massive education on the consequences of it. Really discourage that choice.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #102 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:15 PM Thread Starter
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Like our family...you probably have a decent company health care plan... NO? ... Have you ever been in the shoes of someone who hasn't had coverage, needed it & it wasn't there?...or could hardly afford to eat, pay rent/ bills -when it is consuming nearly 30% + of their income ??

Maybe that would make a good thread.. how much does your family spend on health care/ Medical bills alone (monthly - yearly).. and how much do you earn a living/ or family earns .. to see who really is struggling in this regard....

The idea of retiring at a younger age..we wouldn't entertain that either.. just not going to happen...
My parents only had catastrophic coverage when I was growing up. I almost never went to the doctor.

It is so hard to be short on money.

I am not sure some of us ever really get over it, either.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #103 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:16 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Because parents have ability to make choices that enhance or diminish their health... children are innocent in this, they receive a full pass in my eyes.

Parents with good choices would have the money to contribute to a system as they would not be spending it on drugs (tobacco falls into this) or drink (carbonated sodas fall into this too).

How deep we we inspect liberty before we are fully state controlled, or do we simply pay for every adults free choice no matter the cost?
Personally I have always had an issue with food stamps allowing so much sugary heart clogging junk to be purchased.. why do they allow this ?? That alone just contributes to more health issues...

We buy pop for Parties at our house and for Holidays, when the relatives come over...Otherwise... we drink water.. none smoke.. we SHOULD eat more fruits & veggies but I'm cheap.. if they're not on sale... I won't buy them that week.. I will look for the reduced produce many times to save some money.

Another thing related to insurance is risky behaviors (mountain climbing accidents, drag racing, bungee jumping, physically adventurous hobbies, Casual sex -raises STD statistics).... look how many injuries there are in football alone.. our sons only did cross country running...even that caused a few things to be pulled, taking them to the sports medicine Doc...
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post #104 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:17 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Maybe but their economy is not sustainable and is in decline. Review the economic health of the countries that offer socialized medicine.
France's economy is not doing that great, I agree. But when I look at the health care cost to GDP, USA is not doing that great. 13.1 for USA versus 10.1 for France or 9.4 for Germany ().

I have experienced France, Britain, India and USA's health care. While USA has some of the most advanced care available, its efficiency is poor.

My wife had to get one of our kids stitched up in France. The stay at the emergency room was less than an hour and with the doctor less than 15mn. The bill was 53 Euros. I had to do the same in the US for another boy. It took 4h and at the end he just got superglue from a nurse with a bill over $1,200.

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post #105 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:19 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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It also means, if it ever gets repealed, that those on welfare would not be covered anymore. That would be a good thing. Why should taxpayers get saddled with providing healthcare for those who won't work. It's bad enough there's so much welfare fraud. The ACA was a terrible idea and a horrible way to spend taxpayers dollars.
I have some potential ideas as to why. Maybe because the more people that pay for them, the smaller the burden will be for everyone. What if EVERYBODY paid for EVERYBODY's health care by contributing the same percentage of their income towards medical taxes? That would be fair because everyone would be contributing the same. Yes, you might have to pay for someone else's medicine, but IMO, no good person would object to that if they knew what the destitute go through without the help. People waiting until their injured body parts are almost necrotic before they are desperate enough to see a doctor. People taking medicine and antibiotics meant for animals because it's cheaper. It's not like health care is something people can live without, you know. People don't spend money at the doctor because they are selfish or greedy. They go because they're sick and have no choice.

I wasn't covered by the ACA myself, but I would have been able to enroll in a cheaper plan from the marketplace, and I would have been able to wait for 3 more years to do so. I will have to spend several hundred dollars a month extra now to manage my chronic health conditions. Pre-ACA, all the things I needed per month would have been several thousand dollars. I may not need to resort to it but I'm considering taking Prozac made for cats and foregoing therapies and orthotics of any kind if none of the plans post-ACA are affordable. Do you know how dehumanizing that is? Would you really say that you're fine with people living like that? That people who can't afford it don't deserve the medicine and care better-off people do? What kind of person does that make you??

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