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post #106 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:19 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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I agree, but why not for their parents, too?

I always wonder why people do not consider the needs of the parents. Do they think children raise themselves?
Why be so stingy? Everything should be free for everyone!


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post #107 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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France's economy is not doing that great, I agree. But when I look at the health care cost to GDP, USA is not doing that great. 13.1 for USA versus 10.1 for France or 9.4 for Germany ().

I have experienced France, Britain, India and USA's health care. While USA has some of the most advanced care available, its efficiency is poor.

My wife had to get one of our kids stitched up in France. The stay at the emergency room was less than an hour and with the doctor less than 15mn. The bill was 53 Euros. I had to do the same in the US for another boy. It took 4h and at the end he just got superglue from a nurse with a bill over $1,200.
Indian health care was good, too. Simple (we had to manually crank up our son's bed if he wanted to sit up), but good.

Just made me feel bad that relatively few of the Indians could afford even that simple care.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #108 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Why be so stingy? Everything should be free for everyone!
Health care for sick people = everything?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #109 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:22 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Health care for sick people = everything?
No, of course that isn't everything; that's exactly my point. If health care can be free for everyone, why can't everything be free for everyone?

Or at least all necessities, like water, food, clothing, shelter, education, internet access, transportation, and phone service? I'm sure there are more necessities of life that I can't think of right now, but everyone needs those too!

Are you a greedy capitalist who thinks people should pay for what they get?

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post #110 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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No, of course that isn't everything; that's exactly my point. If health care can be free for everyone, why can't everything be free for everyone?

Or at least all necessities, like water, food, clothing, shelter, education, internet access, transportation, and phone service? I'm sure there are more necessities of life that I can't think of right now, but everyone needs those too!

Are you a greedy capitalist who thinks people should pay for what they get?
All depends on what a society's goals are, I guess. If you want a healthy society, you make sure people have the necessities . . . and some of the luxuries.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #111 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:38 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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My parents only had catastrophic coverage when I was growing up. I almost never went to the doctor.

It is so hard to be short on money.

I am not sure some of us ever really get over it, either.
This explains WHY you care so much about this issue ...as you've lived it..... growing up in a larger family where the money just wasn't there...then the pre-existing concerns and/ or insurance caps given what you & Dug faced with your son...

I was just comparing ... I personally wouldn't mind if I had to pay for a Doctor visit when needed (if one had a chronically sick family member or 2, this could add up quickly)... but the thought of one of us coming down with a debilitating disease/ cancer and the insurance runs out...exhausting it's limits ...the worry about one's life hanging in the balance, then adding this mountain of a financial burden on top of that, decisions to sell your home, collectors calling, a new medical bill in the mail every day.....it pains me anyone has to go through this.. ANYONE.

Preventive medicine surely helps though... one thing I have noticed... when I get all our kids the flu shot.. they never seem to get sick.. the years I didn't ... it seemed like I was running them to the doc again.. then again, antibiotic here.. another there..... so I opt for the flu shot for all of us every year now .... this is covered.. years ago.. we used to go to the county health office for this & wait in a line.. they did away with that... more cuts I guess.. I often wonder if it was cheaper over having the insurance take these things over now..
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post #112 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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This explains WHY you care so much about this issue ...as you've lived it..... growing up in a larger family where the money just wasn't there...then the pre-existing concerns and/ or insurance caps given what you & Dug faced with your son...

I was just comparing ... I personally wouldn't mind if I had to pay for a Doctor visit when needed (if one had a chronically sick family member or 2, this could add up quickly)... but the thought of one of us coming down with a debilitating disease/ cancer and the insurance runs out...exhausting it's limits ...the worry about one's life hanging in the balance, then adding this mountain of a financial burden on top of that, decisions to sell your home, collectors calling, a new medical bill in the mail every day.....it pains me anyone has to go through this.. ANYONE.

Preventive medicine surely helps though... one thing I have noticed... when I get all our kids the flu shot.. they never seem to get sick.. the years I didn't ... it seemed like I was running them to the doc again.. then again, antibiotic here.. another there..... so I opt for the flu shot for all of us every year now .... this is covered.. years ago.. we used to go to the county health office for this & wait in a line.. they did away with that... more cuts I guess.. I often wonder if it was cheaper over having the insurance take these things over now..
It is a terrible feeling, SA. Before the ACA, I wondered if at some point we would have to just let our son die. Dug and I are certainly not made of money.

We knew some people in India who had family in that position. Eventually they just could not afford to keep paying for his treatment, not if the rest of the family were to get a chance to get an education and live their own lives.

That is just sick, considering how much wealth some Indians have. If the rich ones would all pay their taxes, that country could have a really good national health care system.

But people there, like here, always want more, more, more for themselves, and too bad for the others.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #113 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:49 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

Competition in health care? Good luck with that. No transparency of costs, provider quality, outcomes...

The only savings via HSA and high deductible is when people don't use services.
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post #114 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Personally I have always had an issue with food stamps allowing so much sugary heart clogging junk to be purchased.. why do they allow this ?? That alone just contributes to more health issues...

We buy pop for Parties at our house and for Holidays, when the relatives come over...Otherwise... we drink water.. none smoke.. we SHOULD eat more fruits & veggies but I'm cheap.. if they're not on sale... I won't buy them that week.. I will look for the reduced produce many times to save some money.

Another thing related to insurance is risky behaviors (mountain climbing accidents, drag racing, bungee jumping, physically adventurous hobbies, Casual sex -raises STD statistics).... look how many injuries there are in football alone.. our sons only did cross country running...even that caused a few things to be pulled, taking them to the sports medicine Doc...
Starches, like beans and potatoes and rice, are not too expensive. Whole cultures have existed on starches throughout most of history. The livestock industry would be furious if they lost their subsidies, though, to changes with food stamps.

Fruits and veggies in season are usually a good deal.

I am not big on soda pop, but we get it for the kids' birthdays and holidays. Water is our normal drink.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #115 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:57 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Competition in health care? Good luck with that. No transparency of costs, provider quality, outcomes...

The only savings via HSA and high deductible is when people don't use services.
We already know that you don't know anything about free market economics. You don't have to keep proving that.


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post #116 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:59 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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All depends on what a society's goals are, I guess. If you want a healthy society, you make sure people have the necessities . . . and some of the luxuries.
Have you ever considered who is going to pay for all of these free things?

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post #117 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Have you ever considered who is going to pay for all of these free things?
Everybody pays, tech, with taxes. Everybody knows there is never really a free lunch.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #118 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 03:01 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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No, of course that isn't everything; that's exactly my point. If health care can be free for everyone, why can't everything be free for everyone?

Or at least all necessities, like water, food, clothing, shelter, education, internet access, transportation, and phone service? I'm sure there are more necessities of life that I can't think of right now, but everyone needs those too!
I don't think it's necessary to give everyone cell phone service.. our 2 sons in college don't have a cell....well they do.. but not the service.. why do they NEED that?? They don't ... they can use the Wi-Fi for free everywhere on college campus.. (I did put a tracfone in the car in case they have an accident on the way there)...

Days ago..our 15 yr old insisted I buy him this 1 cent sim card so he can have free cell phone coverage.. to use in his "Amazon Fire phone"....I laughed telling him.. "NO way is that going to be Free.. there is some catch!".. oldest son already done it... tells me it's legit... so I bought him this PENNY sim card.. what do you know.. it works!... now he has 200 minutes talk, 500 messages Text and 200 mb data a month...FREE .. you can get higher if you "add friends" .. I did have to pay a $5 fee to downgrade something to cap it -in case he would go over.. sounds like a grand deal to me..

Freedom Pop 1 cent sale

These companies with these very low cost options could be used -instead of the Government taking it on..
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post #119 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 03:06 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

Perhaps it is time for a primer on 'insurance'.

The sole purpose of insurance is to spread financial risk across a pool of participants. At one extreme, you would treat everyone the exact same regardless of their choices. At the other extreme you create very fine grained risk buckets based on statistics.

For car insurance, we have chosen to bucket risk in a fairly fine grained manner, because we believe that safe driving is almost entirely a matter of choice. For health care, our primary 'risk bucketing' is connected to age. Without Medicare, 90% of the populace couldn't afford health care because health care for the 65+ crowd is staggeringly expensive.

As to fairness:
During ANY defined time frame under which you are insured, you are either below average or above average from a 'cost' perspective. If your costs are 'below' average you are subsidizing the folks with above average costs. If your costs are 'above' average you are being subsidized by the lower cost half of the pool.

Let's call the degree to which you are subsidizing or being subsidized an 'imbalance'.

There are objective factors which can be used to contour pricing in an attempt to PARTLY reduce the size of these imbalances. For health and life insurance these can be smoking and weight.

That said, if you FULLY address the imbalance, then you no longer have insurance, since the WHOLE concept of insurance is to spread risk across a pool. And if everyone is paying their true costs, there is no spreading.

We will ALL benefit from Medicare if we live to 65. And HALF of us will be in the above average cost group, meaning the subsidized group while on Medicare. The question becomes: Is that fair? And the answer is quite simple. If you believe we are here to take care of one another, then you will see this as fair.

If however, you are both healthy and of the belief that life is an 'every man for himself' proposition, than you will see it as unfair.






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Because ACA isn't in a lot of our interests. Especially if you're a Liberty minded individual. I've stated repeatedly that ACA was damaging to me. It's been damaging to most single men my age. It is a horrible monstrosity.

What does it say about a person, if they think their only interest is money, JLD? If that's the only metric they measure by? Or the most important?

Now, the R's aren't going to just repeal it (sadly) they are going to replace it. Here's Rand Paul's Senate Bill (which may or may not go anywhere) Full Text Here
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post #120 of 275 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 03:18 PM
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Re: If ACA is repealed

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Personally I have always had an issue with food stamps allowing so much sugary heart clogging junk to be purchased.. why do they allow this ?? That alone just contributes to more health issues...
Very good question...

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Originally Posted by SimplyAmorous View Post
Another thing related to insurance is risky behaviors (mountain climbing accidents, drag racing, bungee jumping, physically adventurous hobbies, Casual sex -raises STD statistics).... look how many injuries there are in football alone.. our sons only did cross country running...even that caused a few things to be pulled, taking them to the sports medicine Doc...
Yes... I have to take out extra health supplemental insurance every time I fall from a plane.

Fortunately my life insurance has no clause for such.

Life is about choices... whether you get it should not be a discussion, how you would get it should be an offering to all with options if you want different/more to suit one's lifestyle.

I fear a "Golden Corral" government type exchange though... the care provided for services should be top notch with today's learned knowledge.
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