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post #136 of 227 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 11:45 AM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Many RC's think that theirs is the only 'true' church.
That is not a mistake that only some RCs believe in. God has no bounds, plain and simple.

It's like humans thinking that there could be no other life forms out there in the universe, and yet many of all cultures and levels of education buy into this as well. How can only Earth have life, and that we as humans are the only intelligent life that exists in the whole universe which is infinite? Again, whether you are religious or not, why put boundaries on creation itself and be so self centered to think that only humans are capable of evolving into the only intelligent life-form to exist?


Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.
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post #137 of 227 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 11:46 AM
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People who have died and been bought back have been to a place they describe as hellish and it has changed their lives.
i had a near death experience once. heart stopped, doctors declared me dead, etc.

while i dont remember a specific place, i do remember looking back on my life and being so completely devastated that i had wasted my life worrying about stupid stuff and hating people for no other reason than because i hated myself.

i have said this before... the most painful thing i have ever experienced was to not only lose everything, but to realize that i never had any of it to begin with. i had lost my life and had never really lived.

it changed my life.
Wow! This is an eye opener. Thank you for sharing your experience.
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post #138 of 227 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 12:16 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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i had a near death experience once. heart stopped, doctors declared me dead, etc.

while i dont remember a specific place, i do remember looking back on my life and being so completely devastated that i had wasted my life worrying about stupid stuff and hating people for no other reason than because i hated myself.

i have said this before... the most painful thing i have ever experienced was to not only lose everything, but to realize that i never had any of it to begin with. i had lost my life and had never really lived.

it changed my life.

I had a near death experience as well. It was a hydroplane accident which was sure death, but a much higher power turned it into a miracle (and yes, it a matter of seconds my whole life flashed in front of my eyes. I knew I was going to die for sure). I wasn't the only one saved that day, two more hydroplane accidents happened in that same stretch of road I was in. All three of us survived it without a scratch and just inches away from a whole bunch of trees in front of us.

I know why I was spared because just two months after that accident, I found out my X was cheating with a 27 year old prostitute who made him think she was a grave yard shift nurse. Her pimp and her wanted my then X to bring them to America. He was all for it. He was going to leave me, keep the kids and move her in. Well, if I wouldn't of been spared, the woman and the pimp would of had no trouble moving into my home and probably my DD who was 16 at the time would have suffered a terrible fate at the hands of those two low lives. Son then 11 would have probably suffered a terrible fate as well.

God saving me changed all that. He saved three adults in those accidents and I don't know their stories. I know he saved three of us that day in my household alone.

Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.
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post #139 of 227 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Yes, it's a common practice in South Africa, but just take a look at the population of people that are considered Christian in South Africa itself? The numbers are extremely low. Doesn't it make sense that they compose their so called "Christian" faith to fit with the religions that are the majority there ( of which most accept polygamy of course. That as well as other taboos in the rest of the world)?

Just take a look at how Christianity started. Pretty much the same way before it even was called Christianity. It was during Jesus's life here on Earth and the early years after his death as well. Some of our biggest holidays are around those same pagan holidays til this day.

and now here's the kicker...what if it is the same God, but like always people perceive what they want to perceive as God speaking to them and allowing things that it really wasn't Him that allowed them. We are our worst enemies and we are so self deceiving. I am speaking from experience. I honestly thought my second husband was a God send. I deceived myself because it wasn't true. All those godly men in sheepskin like others have mentioned is true. They say God forgave them, but I honestly think most are being self deceived. No blame shifting that the devil made me do it, instead let's tell everyone that God made an exception to the rule with me...ha!
you might want to look up the numbers on that... southern africa is overall over 80% christian. south africa itself is over 80% christian. Christians ARE the majority there. eastern africa is over 70% christian, middle africa 85% christian, and western africa is 40%, which is no small minority. overall, africa today has more christians than muslims, with the northern half tending toward islam and the southern half tending toward christianity.

and yet polygamy is so common there that they nobody really bats an eye at it, even in countries that are nearly 100% christian.

there are churches that do not practice or tolerate polygamy in africa, basically all the ones that sprang up from western missionaries. pretty much all of the african independent churches, some of which have been around longer than islam was even a thing, tolerate polygamy.


as much as we like to think and say that strict adherence to monogamy is a universal thing among christianity, it isn't. for nearly two thousand years, polygamy has been tolerated in african churches, even if they often discourage it among their clergy.

"The ecologist is continually having to look at the aspects of nature with which he is unfamiliar and perforce must be an amateur for much of his working time.... professionals may carp at omissions, misconstructions, or even downright errors in these pages. perhaps ultimately they may forgive them for the sake of the overall vision that only the amateur, or the ecologist, blithely sets out to experience."G. Evelyn Hutchinson
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post #140 of 227 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 02:09 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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you might want to look up the numbers on that... southern africa is overall over 80% christian. south africa itself is over 80% christian. Christians ARE the majority there. eastern africa is over 70% christian, middle africa 85% christian, and western africa is 40%, which is no small minority. overall, africa today has more christians than muslims, with the northern half tending toward islam and the southern half tending toward christianity.

and yet polygamy is so common there that they nobody really bats an eye at it, even in countries that are nearly 100% christian.

there are churches that do not practice or tolerate polygamy in africa, basically all the ones that sprang up from western missionaries. pretty much all of the african independent churches, some of which have been around longer than islam was even a thing, tolerate polygamy.


as much as we like to think and say that strict adherence to monogamy is a universal thing among christianity, it isn't. for nearly two thousand years, polygamy has been tolerated in african churches, even if they often discourage it among their clergy.
That is why I compared them to early Christians during Jesus's time here on Earth. Christianity (RCC) was not recognized until around 26 years after Jesus Died, most recognized it even later than that. We took many of the pagan holidays as our own (probably other rituals and traditions as well). Why is it any surprise that Africa did the same? Just because polygamy is right in that part of the world, it isn't in most of the whole world not only the western world.

The history of Christianity before the late 1990s in Africa was not all that big. The movement grew after the 1990s but it is still in its infancy to be honest. As you state, many of their beliefs are still of some of their old faiths blended with Christian beliefs. It's a mess to sort out for sure and we will probably see them accepting polygamy for a long time coming. It is still far from the norm compared to the world. Just because they swear it's is right and righteous, it may not be true at all. History has a way of putting things right. It will take time like everything else to be accepted as acceptable by the world as a whole or not.

I continue to state that this example is comparing apples to oranges. They are fruit, but radically different in its make up.

Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.
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post #141 of 227 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 02:38 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
Many RC's think that theirs is the only 'true' church.
Incorrect. The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the Church has the fullness of God's truth and that other faiths aren't there yet, for lack of a simpler way to explain it. There is a distinct difference between the two.

As far as the Church accepting polygamy, yes and no. It's still a Mortal Sin to have more than one wife. However, Mortal Sin requires:

Grave Matter- The act itself is intrinsically evil and immoral. (Adultery being the sin here since the first marriage is presumed valid and continuing conjugal relations with the 2nd or 3rd or whatever number wife is committing Adultery)

Full Knowledge- The person must know that what they're doing or planning to do is evil and immoral. ...

Deliberate Consent- The person must freely choose to commit the act or plan to do it.

A lot of African converts simply don't "get it" and don't see anything wrong with multiple wives as that has been their cultural norm. So, they aren't acting in Mortal Sin because they truly believe they are doing nothing immoral at all. The basic idea is to bring these people to Christ and pray the scales fall from their eyes, they see, repent, and amend their ways.

Follow the evidence where it leads and question everything.

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post #142 of 227 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 05:09 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
Many RC's think that theirs is the only 'true' church.
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Originally Posted by Bibi1031 View Post
That is not a mistake that only some RCs believe in. God has no bounds, plain and simple.

It's like humans thinking that there could be no other life forms out there in the universe, and yet many of all cultures and levels of education buy into this as well. How can only Earth have life, and that we as humans are the only intelligent life that exists in the whole universe which is infinite? Again, whether you are religious or not, why put boundaries on creation itself and be so self centered to think that only humans are capable of evolving into the only intelligent life-form to exist?
What I'm about to say in this post needs no response. I intend it as food for thought, for you to reconsider your criticism.

The RCC teaches that the RCC is the one true apostolic successor to the Church as lead by Peter, and that the Bishop of Rome is the direct successor of Peter.

When they say they are the one true church, they are stating something that every denomination states: that their doctrine/interpretation of the Gospel is right, and the closest to the intention of God. If you think that all denominations are equally right, then why do you follow your denomination? If it is no better than any other, then every other will do. And if all denominations are equally right, how do you reconcile such a concept, with the contradictory concept taught by most, that they are more right than your own.

Take, for example, the concept that has been proposed in this thread: that all sin is equal in the eyes of God. The RCC and many other denominations reject this concept. Others embrace it. They are contradictory, and only one can be right.

This is a weak criticism of the RCC, when there are real criticisms to be had. It is mere theological relativism. And relativism is merely a well-dressed nihilism.

Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
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post #143 of 227 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 05:24 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Originally Posted by MJJEAN View Post
Incorrect. The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the Church has the fullness of God's truth and that other faiths aren't there yet, for lack of a simpler way to explain it. There is a distinct difference between the two.

As far as the Church accepting polygamy, yes and no. It's still a Mortal Sin to have more than one wife. However, Mortal Sin requires:

Grave Matter- The act itself is intrinsically evil and immoral. (Adultery being the sin here since the first marriage is presumed valid and continuing conjugal relations with the 2nd or 3rd or whatever number wife is committing Adultery)

Full Knowledge- The person must know that what they're doing or planning to do is evil and immoral. ...

Deliberate Consent- The person must freely choose to commit the act or plan to do it.

A lot of African converts simply don't "get it" and don't see anything wrong with multiple wives as that has been their cultural norm. So, they aren't acting in Mortal Sin because they truly believe they are doing nothing immoral at all. The basic idea is to bring these people to Christ and pray the scales fall from their eyes, they see, repent, and amend their ways.

This was a much better answer than mine, because it covered everything I was intending, and did it much more succinctly.

Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
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post #144 of 227 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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That is why I compared them to early Christians during Jesus's time here on Earth. Christianity (RCC) was not recognized until around 26 years after Jesus Died, most recognized it even later than that. We took many of the pagan holidays as our own (probably other rituals and traditions as well). Why is it any surprise that Africa did the same? Just because polygamy is right in that part of the world, it isn't in most of the whole world not only the western world.

The history of Christianity before the late 1990s in Africa was not all that big. The movement grew after the 1990s but it is still in its infancy to be honest. As you state, many of their beliefs are still of some of their old faiths blended with Christian beliefs. It's a mess to sort out for sure and we will probably see them accepting polygamy for a long time coming. It is still far from the norm compared to the world. Just because they swear it's is right and righteous, it may not be true at all. History has a way of putting things right. It will take time like everything else to be accepted as acceptable by the world as a whole or not.

I continue to state that this example is comparing apples to oranges. They are fruit, but radically different in its make up.

actually, what i meant is that some of the oldest churches in the world are in africa. many of their christian traditions are older, or at least as old as, the roman catholic church.

the history of christianity in africa is incredibly long and complex. there are a lot of churches that sprang up about a hundred years ago and basically emulated africas oldest churches after missionary's refused to accept polygamist people into their congregations. some of the oldest african churches had been accepting them for years, even if they hadnt accepted them into clergy. that is kinda like their version of roman catholic churches priesthood, except that in order to be a priest in these churches, you have to be monogamous rather than entirely celibate.

"The ecologist is continually having to look at the aspects of nature with which he is unfamiliar and perforce must be an amateur for much of his working time.... professionals may carp at omissions, misconstructions, or even downright errors in these pages. perhaps ultimately they may forgive them for the sake of the overall vision that only the amateur, or the ecologist, blithely sets out to experience."G. Evelyn Hutchinson

Last edited by As'laDain; 02-01-2017 at 07:28 PM.
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post #145 of 227 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 07:35 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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What I'm about to say in this post needs no response. I intend it as food for thought, for you to reconsider your criticism.

The RCC teaches that the RCC is the one true apostolic successor to the Church as lead by Peter, and that the Bishop of Rome is the direct successor of Peter.

When they say they are the one true church, they are stating something that every denomination states: that their doctrine/interpretation of the Gospel is right, and the closest to the intention of God. If you think that all denominations are equally right, then why do you follow your denomination? If it is no better than any other, then every other will do. And if all denominations are equally right, how do you reconcile such a concept, with the contradictory concept taught by most, that they are more right than your own.

Take, for example, the concept that has been proposed in this thread: that all sin is equal in the eyes of God. The RCC and many other denominations reject this concept. Others embrace it. They are contradictory, and only one can be right.

This is a weak criticism of the RCC, when there are real criticisms to be had. It is mere theological relativism. And relativism is merely a well-dressed nihilism.
I don't think that all denominations are right. I think that the God I worship is the same God that Buddha had a personal relationship with as well as Mohammad from the Islam religion and of course Judaism and their spin offs for lack of a better term. Neither of those religions is Chrisitian or a spin off of RC, but from what I have read and know (which is limited) they are all the same God.

My religion is Latin Catholic and yes, the pope is ultimately the head of my church. I was born into this faith. As a young adult, I attended a private Christian University, but it was not Catholic. I had several bible classes in college and I further explored other religions as well. I remained in the faith I was born into when my grandmother whom I believed to be a very wise woman told me that I probably should grow in my faith and not change faiths. After all God created me in the perfect culture, country and faith for me. That is what convinced me to stay in the faith I was born into. It has worked quite well for me once I stopped seeking and just grew in the faith I decided to stay in.

Now my faith is run by humans and the bible we use is also written and translated by humans and I believe it to be flawed, God isn't. God talks to all of us; not just a selective few and not just a particular denomination either. Most of the time, I need confirmation that what God told me was indeed coming from Him and I'm not deceiving myself or being deceived by others. For me spiritual guides are imperative in order to receive confirmation.


Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.
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post #146 of 227 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 07:45 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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the history of christianity in africa is incredibly long and complex. there are a lot of churches that sprang up about a hundred years ago and basically emulated africas oldest churches after missionary's refused to accept polygamist people into their congregations. some of the oldest african churches had been accepting them for years, even if they hadnt accepted them into clergy. that is kinda like their version of roman catholic churches priesthood, except that in order to be a priest in these churches, you have to be monogamous rather than entirely celibate.
Do any of these old African churches accept a woman having more than one husband? Do they accept a man marrying their mother, daughter, brother? Do they accept a man marrying another man or more than one man? Do they accept a woman marrying another woman or more than one woman? Can a man marry a child of any gender or more than one child? Can a woman do the same?

How about a man marrying let's say an animal, or woman doing the same thing? Can you see how ugly and messy polygamy is. What is to stop the deprivation that is sure to occur?

This reminds me of @diane7 and her definition of "pornea" which I believe is spot on by the way, but many others don't and may not see as depravity what I see as depravity. Everything I mentioned above is in the Bible and men that wrote it say God himself sees these things happening between humans and animals not just humans with humans. I wonder if all this only excludes members of the clergy, but it's OK for any others...evil grin.

Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.

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post #147 of 227 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 10:05 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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That is not a mistake that only some RCs believe in. God has no bounds, plain and simple.

It's like humans thinking that there could be no other life forms out there in the universe, and yet many of all cultures and levels of education buy into this as well. How can only Earth have life, and that we as humans are the only intelligent life that exists in the whole universe which is infinite? Again, whether you are religious or not, why put boundaries on creation itself and be so self centered to think that only humans are capable of evolving into the only intelligent life-form to exist?
I have never been a christian who only goes with one denomination.We go to any church where those there follow Jesus Christ and Gods word. Any church/denomination/group who claim that only they are right are a cult and not worth bothering with.
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post #148 of 227 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 10:16 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Originally Posted by Kivlor View Post
What I'm about to say in this post needs no response. I intend it as food for thought, for you to reconsider your criticism.

The RCC teaches that the RCC is the one true apostolic successor to the Church as lead by Peter, and that the Bishop of Rome is the direct successor of Peter.

When they say they are the one true church, they are stating something that every denomination states: that their doctrine/interpretation of the Gospel is right, and the closest to the intention of God. If you think that all denominations are equally right, then why do you follow your denomination? If it is no better than any other, then every other will do. And if all denominations are equally right, how do you reconcile such a concept, with the contradictory concept taught by most, that they are more right than your own.

Take, for example, the concept that has been proposed in this thread: that all sin is equal in the eyes of God. The RCC and many other denominations reject this concept. Others embrace it. They are contradictory, and only one can be right.

This is a weak criticism of the RCC, when there are real criticisms to be had. It is mere theological relativism. And relativism is merely a well-dressed nihilism.
We have been to churches of many different denominations. As long as they follow Gods word and follow Jesus Christ Gods Son then we are open to it. We/I usually pray about where go to. We recently moved across our country(the UK) to another county, and we prayed for a good local church to go to. This time its a Baptist church He led us to, a lovely, friendly, caring, large group of people who love God with a passion. We knew immediately that it was to be our spiritual home.
There are a few churches that I wouldn't go to, such as the RC(due to countless errors) and the very 'high' formal churches, that we struggle to find God in, but generally we are open to most of them.

My intention wasnt to give all the reasons why RC church is wrong, it was in reply to another post. Any church that claims that no one outside their own church is saved is a cult, and in total error.Some RC's think this. All of His children saved though Jesus Christ are His family and part of His body on earth.
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post #149 of 227 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 10:23 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Do any of these old African churches accept a woman having more than one husband? Do they accept a man marrying their mother, daughter, brother? Do they accept a man marrying another man or more than one man? Do they accept a woman marrying another woman or more than one woman? Can a man marry a child of any gender or more than one child? Can a woman do the same?

How about a man marrying let's say an animal, or woman doing the same thing? Can you see how ugly and messy polygamy is. What is to stop the deprivation that is sure to occur?

This reminds me of @diane7 and her definition of "pornea" which I believe is spot on by the way, but many others don't and may not see as depravity what I see as depravity. Everything I mentioned above is in the Bible and men that wrote it say God himself sees these things happening between humans and animals not just humans with humans. I wonder if all this only excludes members of the clergy, but it's OK for any others...evil grin.
Yes good points. Gods desire and intention for marriage has always been for one man and one woman. He says that clearly. 'The man shall leave his Father and mother and join to His wife'. In proverbs it says 'be faithful to the wife of your youth'.
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post #150 of 227 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 10:48 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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That's very interesting! I never thought about that part. Yes, in biblical days women would be destitute if they did not have a husband! Very interesting!!!

Would you consider a spouse's refusal to continue sexual relations with her husband grounds for divorce?
You might consider that the bible also allows a woman to divorce if her husband isn't financially supporting her.

The bible considers it a husband's duty to financially support the household.

See Exodus.
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