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post #31 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 11:48 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Originally Posted by ConanHub View Post
From the beginning it was defined as one man and one women, the two becoming one flesh.

Our ceremonies are for us. God doesn't require festivals to consecrate a marriage.
thats what i always figured. but, apparently one person can be married to multiple people, with each marriage being a legitimately recognized marriage.

for instance, the lady at the well. or any of the cases of polygyny in the bible.


"The ecologist is continually having to look at the aspects of nature with which he is unfamiliar and perforce must be an amateur for much of his working time.... professionals may carp at omissions, misconstructions, or even downright errors in these pages. perhaps ultimately they may forgive them for the sake of the overall vision that only the amateur, or the ecologist, blithely sets out to experience."G. Evelyn Hutchinson
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post #32 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 11:52 AM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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If you can pray to your god and receive answers directly from him on how he wants you to behave, what is the need for the Bible?

I'm not trying to antagonize you, I am genuinely curious. The Bible must be fundamentally flawed at this point. Even if it was the absolute word of god at one point, how could it possibly be intact after centuries of translation and editing? There are material differences between different versions of the Bible today. Which one is right and which is wrong? What do you do about the conflicting messages within each version itself? How do you decide which bits to follow and which bits to dismiss and anachronistic?


This is not specific to Christianity, either. My wife has some Orthodox Jewish members of her family. When I see the lengths they go to in order to get around specifIc instructions of the Bible that allows them to violate the intent but comply technically, I find it puzzling. This whole thread read like that to me. Perhaps I did not understand the actual quartile being posed.
From the little I know about the subject, for Catholics, this is where the magisterium of the Church comes in. According to Catholics, Jesus set His Church in motion when He gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom. "Upon this rock I will build my Church..." And the Roman Catholic Church holds the authority to the Bible that was passed own down through tradition.... It's not like Protestant, that believe each individual can interpret Scripture. For Catholics the Church interprets the scripture.
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post #33 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 12:13 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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If you're going to treat the book at the word of god, it has to be taken literally. Based on the first quote alone, a man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery period. A man who divorces a woman who has been unfailtful appears to get a pass, but no such status is granted the woman should her husband be unfaithful.

If instead, the book is a book written, translated and rewritten and edited by countless humans with varying agendas and perspectives...why bother trying to bend its words to fit your own desires? Do as you like in accordance to your beliefs of what your god wants from you.
If you take it literally then a man who looks at a woman lustfully commits adultery.
Matthew 5:28

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
That one is pretty impossible to follow at least the way I see it.

I tend to look at like this. We are all sinners and we all sin. Everyone has their own stumbling blocks. Salvation comes from grace. This doesn't mean you get to use that as an excuse. Jesus didn't stone the women caught in adultery but told her "where are your accusers, Neither do I. Go and sin no more." Same Jesus, same adultery. The point was not you are a bad person but that you can change and be a good one. That is the message.

I think the point of Matthew 5:28 is that we all sin and we all need salvation. I am very hesitant of people who look at church and the gospel as something that you do or believe to show people what a great person you are. (Lots of "religious" people do this.) I see the point of being a Christian and going to church precisely because I am flawed and need a savoir. Plus my experience with people in church is that some Christians are some of the worst people around. There is a reason why they are there, a person who basically has their life together and isn't broken isn't going to be looking for help. Just like the idea of the rich man and the eye of a needle. If you are rich, and have everything you want in this world why would you think you need a savior.

Anyway that is my take.

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post #34 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 12:22 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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these are all processes and traditions created by the church. im trying to find out if any of this stuff that we do nowadays is actually backed by scripture.

do you know of any scripture that defines a valid marriage? is it in the bible anywhere?
Look at it from the time when Jesus was saying it too. If you were a man and rich enough you could marry someone else too. There is nothing in the old testament law that says you only have to marry one person. None of the bigwigs had to. So it wasn't the same deal a now where if you made a bad choice you were stuck. Nope you made a bad choice you could just marry another better choice as well.

Also marriage was much much more like the concept of eastern arrange marriages with a dowry and all that.

Also as I have said before if your partner committed adultery they were to be stoned to death so no divorce, free to marry again. Now maybe that wasn't always acted on but that was the intent. The intent in the old testament biblical law was if you were cheated on the cheater was killed you were widowed and you could marry again. This is the law the Jesus knew and followed. Why would he even talk about Adultery and staying married. There was no concept of that in old testament law. There was only Adultery and death.
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post #35 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 12:23 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

The scriptures you presented were all spoken in the context of teaching just how fallen we are.

The disciples were so use to a life where divorce was commonplace that when Jesus talked to them about how serious God views marriage that they said it was better to never marry because they could not conceive of a life without divorce.

Now taking the entirety of scripture into consideration, the goal of a Christian is to stop willfully sinning at some point and live righteously.

Jesus said that only those to whom it has been given can abstain from marriage, the rest of us should be married because we are horny and should be having lots of sex.

It isn't good to burn with passion.

So in asking the question "Should someone marry after divorce?"

It is certainly better than burning with passion and Jesus said that only those to whom it has been given should abstain.

If a divorce takes place, I guarantee that one or both parties are already pretty guilty of probably more than one sin.

Now you have also compared remarriage after divorce to alternative lifestyles.

Interesting stretch but I will address it.

I lived in sin for years before meeting my wife, so did she. Our sexual sin was no worse or greater than any poly or homo lifestyle or anything in between barring of course child rape which is in a class of evil by itself.

At some point we both decided to straighten up, repent of willfully sinning sexually and married each other. Until then, we were committing fornication/adultery/sexual immorality.

When we decided to marry we had been living together for 4 years and had a baby on the way. I had been one flesh with many women but never in a ceremony.

She had been with many men and had ceremonies twice.

BTW, she had her virginity raped away by a married man old enough to be her father so maybe her judgment was a little off after that?

So despite our vast history of sexual sin, we decided to repent and start living righteously as one man and one woman, forgiven and committed to living a righteous life.

If I had been in a poly relationship upon conversion, I'm not sure exactly what steps would be taken but to start walking in righteousness, I would have to, at some point, settle into a one man, one woman relationship being one flesh with only her.

God gave scripture on this subject to show us just how backwards we are.

That said, that is why we absolutely need Jesus and what he accomplished for us to live righteously.

Without him it doesn't matter what we do because we are all dirty with sin.

With Him, we can become clean and sanctified.

I technically had my virginity raped away as a child so my early life choices might have been impaired by poor judgement as well.

Good thing God is merciful and filled with grace.

He took my mess and made it a miracle.

He takes sewage and makes it pure enough to drink.

That is what we are without Him. Sewage, fit for nothing but throwing out.

Glad Jesus paid for me to be able to repent and receive forgiveness.
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post #36 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 12:25 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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I spent many many hours studying this subject many years ago. I listened to many Bible teachers teaching on it on it. I prayed and asked God to show me what it all meant.
He led me to the story of the woman at the well who had been married 5 times and was at that time living with a man she wasn't married to. The thing that hit me was the fact that he recognised all of her husbands as having been her husbands, and all of her marriages as being marriages. This despite the fact that she was previously divorced. Jesus said 'you are correct that you have had 5 husbands, and the man you are living with isn't your husband'.

Therefore Jesus recognises each marriage as being a marriage, not adultery. If the other spouse has already broken the covenant by their actions(eg committing adultery), then the marriage can end and the other spouse is free to remarry if God leads them to. Some do and some don't.

I recommend a book by David Innstone- Brewer on this topic. He is a very learned Bible scholar who has studied this subject in great depth in the whole Bible, looking at the original greek and hebrew words used and the context in which each thing was said.
My mother who has been married ore then once also relates to this sorry. Basically the same exact conclusion.
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post #37 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 12:30 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Good point. It's driving me crazy because I know my wife will never change in regards to having a regular sex life in our marriage. Even after all the times of her saying "she will try" I have learned that those are just words. She won't change. It's been years and years!

I hope to have us both talk to my Priest soon. But she said she did not want to. After a long talk I told her I am making an appointment. Even if she does no, I know she won't change. I am not sure if she is capable of change.

She knows good and well that sex means closeness to me. She even acknowledge it. But she will not change. Take just now, for instance. I was talking to her and tried to get close. But she put up her wall.

I am older too. Sex is still a very important part of life to me. It's not dirty, it's not awful, it's beautiful For crying out loud, I don't even want it as much as I used to. Well, that's not true. I do. But any sex is better than zero sex. And perhaps that's where I go wrong. It should not be that way. I should be married to a woman who desires to be with me. None of this nonsense negotiating...
Have her read 1 Corinthians 7.
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post #38 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 12:46 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Good point. It's driving me crazy because I know my wife will never change in regards to having a regular sex life in our marriage. Even after all the times of her saying "she will try" I have learned that those are just words. She won't change. It's been years and years!

I hope to have us both talk to my Priest soon. But she said she did not want to. After a long talk I told her I am making an appointment. Even if she does no, I know she won't change. I am not sure if she is capable of change.

She knows good and well that sex means closeness to me. She even acknowledge it. But she will not change. Take just now, for instance. I was talking to her and tried to get close. But she put up her wall.

I am older too. Sex is still a very important part of life to me. It's not dirty, it's not awful, it's beautiful For crying out loud, I don't even want it as much as I used to. Well, that's not true. I do. But any sex is better than zero sex. And perhaps that's where I go wrong. It should not be that way. I should be married to a woman who desires to be with me. None of this nonsense negotiating...
Well your wife is sinning her ass off by not having sex with her husband but I sincerely doubt her belief from your other posts anyway.
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post #39 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 12:51 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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I cant agree.If you married you were married no matter where. If he cheated then then you were free to divorce him and then remarry, but that doesn't mean you weren't married before.
The RC church has so many man made ideas that are entirely unbiblical. Annulment is their sneaky way of getting round the no divorce idea. The only justification I can see for it is if there was no sex, ever.

In Gods eyes you WERE married before, you made promises before Him to each other. You entered into that covenant relationship together. If you had biblical reason to end it, then this marriage is also recognised by God, but as your second marriage. There is no annulment in the bible, only divorce. Presumably you had to get divorced as well anyway?
At the time of the "marriage", neither of us were Christian. We were Pagan. It was a courthouse ceremony. I wasn't making vows before God, I was speaking words as required by law to enter into a legal marital contract solely for the purpose of legitimizing my daughter.

I respect your beliefs, but mine differ.

Yes, I had to be divorced first. In the US the Church requires divorce be final before an application for Annulment can be submitted.

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Originally Posted by As'laDain View Post
these are all processes and traditions created by the church. im trying to find out if any of this stuff that we do nowadays is actually backed by scripture.

do you know of any scripture that defines a valid marriage? is it in the bible anywhere?
Catholics aren't Sola Scriptura. So, we rely on a combination of Biblical teaching and sacred Tradition, believed to be inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Follow the evidence where it leads and question everything.
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post #40 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 01:35 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Therefore Jesus recognises each marriage as being a marriage, not adultery. If the other spouse has already broken the covenant by their actions(eg committing adultery), then the marriage can end and the other spouse is free to remarry if God leads them to. Some do and some don't.
It appears this way for THAT woman who was a Gentile. Gentiles and Jews were treated differently at that time. Jews would not mix with those tainted humans. Jesus took care of that. The Kingdom of God was offered to everyone else not just Jews.

Is God the ultimate decision maker when it comes to all things written in the bible? Can he change what is stated in the bible if he himself tells you that your marriage is no more or all your marriages were valid in His eyes? Then what word has more weight; the scriptures in the bible or God's word to YOU?


Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.
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post #41 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 01:59 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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It appears this way for THAT woman who was a Gentile. Gentiles and Jews were treated differently at that time. Jews would not mix with those tainted humans. Jesus took care of that. The Kingdom of God was offered to everyone else not just Jews.

Is God the ultimate decision maker when it comes to all things written in the bible? Can he change what is stated in the bible if he himself tells you that your marriage is no more or all your marriages were valid in His eyes? Then what word has more weight; the scriptures in the bible or God's word to YOU?
Never mind I read your post wrong.
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post #42 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:09 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Have her read 1 Corinthians 7.
Yes I have read it. I know the verse well. Last year I read this verse to my wife. She was in shock. She didn't know it was in the Bible. She said she felt pressured to have sex after I read it to her. In other words, it didn't make any difference if it's in the Bible. She just doesn't want sex.

I doubt very much my wife knows about all the verses in the Bible that talk about divorce and remarriage. She seems to have a limited knowledge of scripture. At least as far as I can tell.
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post #43 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:13 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Yes I have read it. I know the verse well. Last year I read this verse to my wife. She was in shock. She didn't know it was in the Bible. She said she felt pressured to have sex after I read it to her. In other words, it didn't make any difference if it's in the Bible. She just doesn't want sex.

I doubt very much my wife knows about all the verses in the Bible that talk about divorce and remarriage. She seems to have a limited knowledge of scripture. At least as far as I can tell.
Remind me what is the benefit of your marriage to you again?
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post #44 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:13 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

Here is a question.

If spouse A divorces spouse B because spouse B is breaking the marriage vow, does that mean spouse A can get remarried again but spouse B can't?

In other words, since my wife refuses to uphold her marriage vow towards me, that means I can get remarried but she can't because it would be adultery in her case? What would be unfortunate for her.
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post #45 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:15 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Remind me what is the benefit of your marriage to you again?
Well I have a nice dog, a child who I love and even a wife who I love. I live in a nice home in a nice town...
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