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post #46 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:35 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Originally Posted by Mr.StrongMan View Post
Here is a question.

If spouse A divorces spouse B because spouse B is breaking the marriage vow, does that mean spouse A can get remarried again but spouse B can't?

In other words, since my wife refuses to uphold her marriage vow towards me, that means I can get remarried but she can't because it would be adultery in her case? What would be unfortunate for her.
If you are Catholic, then you need the help of the Holy Spirit to help you with this answer. How clear and strong is your communication with this living God? The answer is for you personally. That answer may be different for your wife. The journey with God is personal and requires a personal response from Him.

How far along the journey are you with Him? How does He respond to you?


Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.
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post #47 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:55 PM
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Cool Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Originally Posted by As'laDain View Post
moving this discussion here so as to end the thread jack going on in another thread, i would like to hear your thoughts on it.

is it ok to get divorced and then get married again? from what i can tell, the bible explicitly states that a woman is who marries again commits adultery. a man... causes the woman to commit adultery?
and any man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. so my question is...

so, is it a sin to marry a divorced woman? what are your thoughts?

for reference, here are some scriptures on the subject. feel free to add to the list.

Matthew 5:32
But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, brings adultery upon her. And whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Matthew 19:9
Now I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman, commits adultery.


Mark 10:11
So He told them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her.

Luke 16:18
Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and he who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

1 Corinthians 7:10-11
To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband.
But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.


Romans 7:2-3
For instance, a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage.
So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.
Largely by virtue of Matthew 19:9, both of my XW's zealously committed adultery, thereby rendering me free and clear to remarry!

But Ol' Arb is literally scared sh!tless to even date, much less say "I do's" for the third time!

I think that I've been firmly broken from sucking eggs when it comes to matters of matrimony!

"To love another person is to see the face of God!" - Jean Valjean from Les Miserables

My Story! http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-t...andonment.html
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post #48 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:59 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

My understanding:

Annulment- not in the Bible.

Things that scriptually end a marriage in God's eyes: death, adultry.

So if your spouse commits adultry, and you do not forgive them (aka have sex with them afterward) you can divorce and remarry with a clean conscious before God. Male or female.

That's my personal understanding of it.

Ciao,

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post #49 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 03:11 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Originally Posted by Spicy View Post
My understanding:

Annulment- not in the Bible.

Things that scriptually end a marriage in God's eyes: death, adultry.

So if your spouse commits adultry, and you do not forgive them (aka have sex with them afterward) you can divorce and remarry with a clean conscious before God. Male or female.

That's my personal understanding of it.

Let's think about the times the bible was created and the books that were included in it. We have to understand that women back then did NOT have any say so in what was written and that it wasn't written stating about them, but how men saw them. They were not important at all. They were treated as an object for anything men desired from them. Many countries still behave this way even nowadays. Other countries don't. That is why the bible is not enough; it never was! That is why God sent Jesus to Earth. That is why God sent the Holy Spirit to Earth. The Law of God in now complete and it is for EVERYONE.

Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.

Last edited by Bibi1031; 01-29-2017 at 03:19 PM.
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post #50 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 03:42 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Originally Posted by Mr.StrongMan View Post
Good point. It's driving me crazy because I know my wife will never change in regards to having a regular sex life in our marriage. Even after all the times of her saying "she will try" I have learned that those are just words. She won't change. It's been years and years!

I hope to have us both talk to my Priest soon. But she said she did not want to. After a long talk I told her I am making an appointment. Even if she does no, I know she won't change. I am not sure if she is capable of change.

She knows good and well that sex means closeness to me. She even acknowledge it. But she will not change. Take just now, for instance. I was talking to her and tried to get close. But she put up her wall.

I am older too. Sex is still a very important part of life to me. It's not dirty, it's not awful, it's beautiful For crying out loud, I don't even want it as much as I used to. Well, that's not true. I do. But any sex is better than zero sex. And perhaps that's where I go wrong. It should not be that way. I should be married to a woman who desires to be with me. None of this nonsense negotiating...
What reason does she give for refusing sex and disobeying God? Does she know that for you it may mean ending the marriage?Has she always been this way?

I wasn't saying that when you are older sex isn't important, it is.
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post #51 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 03:47 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Originally Posted by Spicy View Post
My understanding:

Annulment- not in the Bible.

Things that scriptually end a marriage in God's eyes: death, adultry.

So if your spouse commits adultry, and you do not forgive them (aka have sex with them afterward) you can divorce and remarry with a clean conscious before God. Male or female.

That's my personal understanding of it.
Its not just adultery, the word Jesus use is 'pornea' which means many different types of sexual sin.
Another one that the Bible talks about is abandonment, which could include being divorced against your will.
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post #52 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 03:58 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
Its not just adultery, the word Jesus use is 'pornea' which means many different types of sexual sin.
Another one that the Bible talks about is abandonment, which could include being divorced against your will.

That definition is not the one EVERYONE uses to be quite honest here. Humans change the definition to suit their needs. It's sad but true. If something like a word can be defined differently by different people at different times, imagine the WHOLE bible?

Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.
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post #53 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 04:05 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Originally Posted by Mr.StrongMan View Post
Does this mean also pertain if your spouse refuses sexual relations?

Your "every man his own priest" and "ever flock needs a shepherd" is a good one.
Lol, glad you liked my response to it.

RE: Annulment, there are some variations on this, but in general it's not just a refusal to have sex... a refusal to legitimately try to have children, as I recall, is a fraud on the marriage, and grounds for annulment.

Of course we're talking about over a significant period of time, not refusing to have sex every day of the week, and only agreeing to it weekly, or something like that.

here's a short list of reasons...

Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
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post #54 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 04:51 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Originally Posted by Mr.StrongMan View Post
Yes I have read it. I know the verse well. Last year I read this verse to my wife. She was in shock. She didn't know it was in the Bible. She said she felt pressured to have sex after I read it to her. In other words, it didn't make any difference if it's in the Bible. She just doesn't want sex.

I doubt very much my wife knows about all the verses in the Bible that talk about divorce and remarriage. She seems to have a limited knowledge of scripture. At least as far as I can tell.
And this illustrates why Catholics are required to marry within the Church or receive dispensation and why those who marry outside the Church without dispensation marry invalidly.

Had you married in the Church or applied for dispensation, the priest would have required pre-cana (marriage prep) before allowing the marriage or granting a dispensation. Part of that pre-cana would have been a few sessions with the priest and/or classes during which you both would have been instructed on marital duties and obligations as well as have an opportunity to acknowledge and work out any disagreements in terms of expectations, lifestyle, etc. Your and your wife would have been made aware that refusing your spouse sex without a good reason is sinful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.StrongMan View Post
Here is a question.

If spouse A divorces spouse B because spouse B is breaking the marriage vow, does that mean spouse A can get remarried again but spouse B can't?

In other words, since my wife refuses to uphold her marriage vow towards me, that means I can get remarried but she can't because it would be adultery in her case? What would be unfortunate for her.
Not according to your Catholic faith. Either the marriage was valid at the time of the ceremony or not. If a marriage is deemed invalid it is invalid for both parties and neither is prohibited from marrying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicy View Post
My understanding:

Annulment- not in the Bible.

Things that scriptually end a marriage in God's eyes: death, adultry.

So if your spouse commits adultry, and you do not forgive them (aka have sex with them afterward) you can divorce and remarry with a clean conscious before God. Male or female.

That's my personal understanding of it.
The Church believes that only death can dissolve a marriage. The Annulment process is merely to determine whether a marriage actually existed in the first place.

Catholics, interestingly, believe that adultery cannot invalidate a valid marriage. However, adultery can be used as evidence one or both spouses never intended to keep the vow of fidelity. In cases of adultery and abuse or addiction, it is not immoral for a Catholic to "cease conjugal life" or to legally separate/divorce in order to assure the safety of themselves, their children, and their worldly assets such as home and retirement.

The Church teaches that sex between spouses is a renewal of the marital covenant. So, if a Catholic discovers infidelity and has sex with their spouse afterward, then they are considered to have forgiven the wayward spouse and cannot morally separate or divorce.

Follow the evidence where it leads and question everything.
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post #55 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 04:56 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
Its not just adultery, the word Jesus use is 'pornea' which means many different types of sexual sin.
Another one that the Bible talks about is abandonment, which could include being divorced against your will.
And what about when your spouse abandons you but doesn't file for divorce? Do you have the right to divorce them?


The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began... JRR Tolkien
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post #56 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 05:04 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

To everyone else talking about Catholicism in this thread, I think I may have caused some misconceptions about OP. Or maybe I misunderstood him.

OP, you said you're an Evangelical Christian, at the outset, but that you are interested in the concept of an Annulment. To this I was responding about how Catholicism deals with Annulments--because I'm very familiar with the Catechism, and the RCC Annulment process, as my mother went throug it, and I fear now everyone thinks you're Catholic. You're not, are you?

I think the only Evangelical Churches that offer Annulments (that I am aware of) are Methodists and Anglicans. As far as I know, the CoE doesn't really grant them any more though, it is just handled through divorce.

Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
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post #57 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 05:21 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Originally Posted by MJJEAN View Post
And this illustrates why Catholics are required to marry within the Church or receive dispensation and why those who marry outside the Church without dispensation marry invalidly.

Had you married in the Church or applied for dispensation, the priest would have required pre-cana (marriage prep) before allowing the marriage or granting a dispensation. Part of that pre-cana would have been a few sessions with the priest and/or classes during which you both would have been instructed on marital duties and obligations as well as have an opportunity to acknowledge and work out any disagreements in terms of expectations, lifestyle, etc. Your and your wife would have been made aware that refusing your spouse sex without a good reason is sinful.

My wife and I were going for couples counseling for a brief period before we got married to a Protestant minister. I know it's not the same thing as a Catholic Priest since I was raised a Catholic but "converted" to the Protestant church for years. I find it interesting that this minister was annoyed because after we got married my wife stopped going to marriage counseling. He made her agree that she would go with me to see him for counseling. He said that was very controlling of her. When I told my new wife that the minister was annoyed she, in her usual manner said "oh, I agreed to that?" It's just like her. She forgets anything that she doesn't want to have to do. Very sad.

I am guilty of my own sins in this marriage, serious sins. I know I have to come to terms with that and with God about that.
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post #58 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 05:29 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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What reason does she give for refusing sex and disobeying God? Does she know that for you it may mean ending the marriage?Has she always been this way?

I wasn't saying that when you are older sex isn't important, it is.
My wife has literally been uninterested in sex since we got married over 15 years ago. Never once has she initiated it. Perhaps once... we suggested it when we got home after she had a few drinks. That was the only time. But all in all, I had to practically beg and make appointments.

But there have been times when we did have sex. And there have been times when the sex we had was wonderful. We did have those times. But all in all, I would say sex averaged once every 3 months. Sometimes more (even a few times a week), but most of the time once every 3 months... When we first got married we went without sex for 4 months. Now she did have a baby so I understand she can't have sex after that. And I know I am only giving an imperfect recollection of our sex life here and now as I type this. But I can say, it's been a sexless marriage according to what marriage experts would describe a sexless marriage to be.

Now it's no sex at all. Not once in 2017. Once in 2016...

She just has no interest in sex. That's what she says.
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post #59 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 05:40 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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If you are Catholic, then you need the help of the Holy Spirit to help you with this answer. How clear and strong is your communication with this living God? The answer is for you personally. That answer may be different for your wife. The journey with God is personal and requires a personal response from Him.

How far along the journey are you with Him? How does He respond to you?
First, I apologize to the OP for monopolizing this thread. I should have done a multiple quote in one reply. I'll be more careful next time.

Now to respond to @Bibi1031 above. You're hitting on a sensitive subject above. What it sounds like you're talking about is a "personal relationship" with God. I'm all for that through prayer, repentance and supplications. Am I there? Heck no! But I did go to confession yesterday.

I'm not sure how much I feel comfortable with the "personal relationship" teachings that evangelicals talk about in their books and radio shows. I was a Born Again Christian for many years and I certainly believe in salvation through Jesus Christ. But these days I would like to think I rely on the churches teachings and how the church (Roman Catholic Church), interprets scripture. There simply is just too much room for error through one's own interpretation of scripture.

And who is to say that the Holy Spirit is speaking to someone? I have met a lot of nutty people years ago thinking they were "called of God" to get into ministry. I look back and I just shrug my head wondering how I could have ever taken them seriously. Back then I tried to suppress my feelings thinking I was "judging them."
Today I realize it was just my intelligence and maybe even a bit of discernment. And yes, discernment is one of the gifts spoken about in scripture, which I am sure you know.

But you asked me about praying and asking God for his guidance. I'm just going to be honest here. And here it goes. I think, sometimes, that I am to sacrifice my sexual happiness for the well being of my child and stay in the marriage. I am to go without sex as a sacrifice. I also wonder, if I am to suffer being celibate in marriage as a way of paying off my time in purgatory for my many years in sexual sin as a single and even when married.

Do I went to do that? No. I want to be married to a beautiful woman and have sex every night. Now I don't know if you agree with what I wrote in the paragraph above or not. But you see how tricky things can get when we rely on God speaking to us personally? Whose to say it's God?
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post #60 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 05:58 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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And what about when your spouse abandons you but doesn't file for divorce? Do you have the right to divorce them?
Yes.
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