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post #61 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 06:00 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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My wife has literally been uninterested in sex since we got married over 15 years ago. Never once has she initiated it. Perhaps once... we suggested it when we got home after she had a few drinks. That was the only time. But all in all, I had to practically beg and make appointments.

But there have been times when we did have sex. And there have been times when the sex we had was wonderful. We did have those times. But all in all, I would say sex averaged once every 3 months. Sometimes more (even a few times a week), but most of the time once every 3 months... When we first got married we went without sex for 4 months. Now she did have a baby so I understand she can't have sex after that. And I know I am only giving an imperfect recollection of our sex life here and now as I type this. But I can say, it's been a sexless marriage according to what marriage experts would describe a sexless marriage to be.

Now it's no sex at all. Not once in 2017. Once in 2016...

She just has no interest in sex. That's what she says.
Leave dude.

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post #62 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 07:39 PM
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According to the law of moses the punishment for adultery is death . So the cheated on pupils would technically be widows therefore free to marry. Then you have David who is forgiven for committing adultery. "The lord has forgiven you and you will not die of this sin" .

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post #63 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 09:25 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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You're hitting on a sensitive subject above. What it sounds like you're talking about is a "personal relationship" with God. I'm all for that through prayer, repentance and supplications. Am I there? Heck no! But I did go to confession yesterday.





I'm not sure how much I feel comfortable with the "personal relationship" teachings that evangelicals talk about in their books and radio shows. I was a Born Again Christian for many years and I certainly believe in salvation through Jesus Christ. But these days I would like to think I rely on the churches teachings and how the church (Roman Catholic Church), interprets scripture. There simply is just too much room for error through one's own interpretation of scripture.

And who is to say that the Holy Spirit is speaking to someone? I have met a lot of nutty people years ago thinking they were "called of God" to get into ministry. I look back and I just shrug my head wondering how I could have ever taken them seriously. Back then I tried to suppress my feelings thinking I was "judging them."
Today I realize it was just my intelligence and maybe even a bit of discernment. And yes, discernment is one of the gifts spoken about in scripture, which I am sure you know.

But you asked me about praying and asking God for his guidance. I'm just going to be honest here. And here it goes. I think, sometimes, that I am to sacrifice my sexual happiness for the well being of my child and stay in the marriage. I am to go without sex as a sacrifice. I also wonder, if I am to suffer being celibate in marriage as a way of paying off my time in purgatory for my many years in sexual sin as a single and even when married.

Do I went to do that? No. I want to be married to a beautiful woman and have sex every night. Now I don't know if you agree with what I wrote in the paragraph above or not. But you see how tricky things can get when we rely on God speaking to us personally? Whose to say it's God?



But I did go to confession yesterday. Congratulations! Did you take advantage of having the Eucharist? Did you offer that communion for your needs in your marriage and what is needed from God to repair it? If you didn't, well you can always attend mass any other day and pray for all those needs of yours. If by contrast, you only confessed but you have not gone through the sacrament of communion, then I'm afraid you can't enjoy the Lord's supper yet. You must fulfill that sacrament first. Go for it, it's worth it!

"I'm all for that through prayer, repentance and supplications."

Well, what is prayer to the Lord? When I was a kid in second grade, my parents made sure I attended classes to be ready for communion by Easter. I learned all the prayers needed for confession as well as mass in catechism. I also learned a couple of songs, hymns and bible stories at Sunday school. One thing that I never will forget about those days was what a sweet nun told me. She said the best prayer that pleases God is the one that is done in my own words (in other words a conversation with your Lord and Savior).

There simply is just too much room for error through one's own interpretation of scripture.

Wise thinking brother. That is why a spiritual guide is needed. Sometimes more than one.

if I am to suffer being celibate in marriage as a way of paying off my time in purgatory for my many years in sexual sin as a single and even when married.

Now this statement still shocks me because it couldn't be more wrong. I have no idea who put that thought process in your head or why. There are a lot of bad people in the church. Those people are greedy pigs that will enjoy keeping you ignorant of the new covenant God made to this world. Overcome those fears or whatever else is blocking your way to quenching that thirst you have to getting to know God at a very personal level (in your case, helping you get what you need out of marriage). He is not the same God that he was in the old testament. He has changed and he has never left after Christ came to intercede for us.

You can find everything you need within the Catholic church if that is the venue you wish to go. It has many sub groups within itself. Each of these sub groups practices the Catholic faith very differently, but all of them are part of the same church and are indeed just as valid. Try different prayer groups in the different sub groups that are lead most of the time by priests or other high officials of the church. If any of them are not a good fit and you can't get the spiritual guidance you need, keep seeking and you will find. thirst will be quenched. God will give you what you need, but you will probably not get what you want. Big difference there, but God has your back and your best interest at heart.

Do I went to do that? No. I want to be married to a beautiful woman and have sex every night. This made me smile, yet I know I don't possess the answer to that, only God does. You will know when you were in the presence of God and when you weren't. The sense of peace you will experience is priceless and like no other ( if it wasn't the Lord's presence you were in, a stirring in you will make you feel uneasy like something is quite wrong). By contrast, you will also at times feel unrest. That unrest may be due to guilt, shame, or any other emotion that moves us to repent and seek true forgiveness. The Holy Spirit that dwells within us causes this stir when we are doing wrong in God's eyes. The process of healing that unrest is very quick though. The Holy Spirit is your ultimate counselor in any needs you may have. If you are not going to get what you want, He will tell you very clearly. If you are going to get what you need, it will also be very clear. At times, His truth was not received well by me and I couldn't understand it because I was not prepared at the time to receive it. That is where discernment comes. If you don't have that gift, you may wish to request it in prayer along with acceptance and patience as well as others you may want to have. All we need to do is ask and we will receive in abundance what we NEED.

Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.

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post #64 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 10:16 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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That definition is not the one EVERYONE uses to be quite honest here. Humans change the definition to suit their needs. It's sad but true. If something like a word can be defined differently by different people at different times, imagine the WHOLE bible?
It has a much wider meaning than just adultery. its used in the bible to describe different types of sexual sin such as gay sex, sex before marriage, incest etc The word for adultery alone is a different one.

Its where the word pornography comes from.

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post #65 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 10:28 PM
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All you have to do is to look up the meaning of that word. Pornea.
I did before I answered the post you quoted. My answer remains the same. I am not arguing with you of the definition. I am stating that some members of the church use different variations of the definition to the word pornea as it translates to English.

With the click of a mouse and a little knowledge of search engines, many can have access to knowledge, definitions and interpretations of said knowledge and definitions. With that kind of access to what is written, we can all decide what we choose to believe or not. Quite a cool little tool that is available to the masses eh?

Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.
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post #66 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 10:57 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

Pa=Leeeease,
Don't quote that stuff, back in the day we did not have mortgages, technology, yearly pay $30,000 less that what is needed to own a home, a car, take a vacation if you are lucky. 75% of the population could go homeless if one spouse works and the other's unemployment run's out. Everyone is in out pocket, we are so worried about the bills, making ends meet, and staring at the boss wrong in which you could get fired. Combine that each spouse knows each other's failures, and their own; therefore, we can't forgive, accept, grow, and have grace for each other's warts because after a time we are so ashamed our ability to be intimate is gone, The four heads of the apocolypse per dr. Gottman shows up. Than you are really through. How about this set up.. to do the deed without a nice romantic set up. Both men and women need to do this. It is more important to relationship to bond. Oh yeah, kick your stinkin kids, step kids, out of the house at age 23. They will ruin your marriage quicker than anything. As or sex. "are you into it tonight? no I am tired the wife say's' two days later the wife asks the same question, the husband says I am too tired or the sex is boring. Another issue, both men and women both have or one has libido problems due to health issues after age 52. Neither spouse can forgive that because the non ill spouse isn't getting their share of sex, affection, and a sit down dinner with their spouse because of T.V. or the wife is doing chores from 5PM to 11PM.


If it is an issue of making a bad marriage or relationship choice that doesn't seek to be fixed in a reasonable amount of time or with counseling in six months. You are making a misstep. If this is the case cut bait and be gone. You don't have to get to the point you wish the person to take a dirt nap. Part as friends, say it didn't work, move one. The longer you torture yourself or each other it will ruin your chances for a quick recovery due to the emotion of how the other wronged you.
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post #67 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 03:16 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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To everyone else talking about Catholicism in this thread, I think I may have caused some misconceptions about OP. Or maybe I misunderstood him.

OP, you said you're an Evangelical Christian, at the outset, but that you are interested in the concept of an Annulment. To this I was responding about how Catholicism deals with Annulments--because I'm very familiar with the Catechism, and the RCC Annulment process, as my mother went throug it, and I fear now everyone thinks you're Catholic. You're not, are you?

I think the only Evangelical Churches that offer Annulments (that I am aware of) are Methodists and Anglicans. As far as I know, the CoE doesn't really grant them any more though, it is just handled through divorce.
no, i am not catholic. i was raised in a church where people spoke in tongues, slapped each other on the forehead, and ran along the backs of the pews. as an adult, i have not attended any one church regularly. i have mostly just met with people of similar faith. some underground churches. all over the world.


i am more interested in figuring out what kind of actual scripture people choose to follow and whatnot. for instance, some people will knowingly enter into a marriage that the bible calls adultery, and will justify it, but cannot justify continuing in a different kind of union.


for instance, lets say i had two wives. according to scripture, im only supposed to have one wife. but, the bible is clear that divorce is bad, to be avoided. so if i were to decide to live the best righteous life i can, am i supposed to divorce one of my wives and abandon her?

i seriously doubt it.

now, the Catholic church is interesting because they don't follow the bible alone, they follow their traditions, which are believed by Catholics to be divinely inspired. which is evident in peoples responses: i was asking about scripture, they responded with Catholic traditions.

to Pentecostal Christians, there is only the bible.

"The ecologist is continually having to look at the aspects of nature with which he is unfamiliar and perforce must be an amateur for much of his working time.... professionals may carp at omissions, misconstructions, or even downright errors in these pages. perhaps ultimately they may forgive them for the sake of the overall vision that only the amateur, or the ecologist, blithely sets out to experience."G. Evelyn Hutchinson
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post #68 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 03:27 AM Thread Starter
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Pa=Leeeease,
Don't quote that stuff, back in the day we did not have mortgages, technology, yearly pay $30,000 less that what is needed to own a home, a car, take a vacation if you are lucky. 75% of the population could go homeless if one spouse works and the other's unemployment run's out. Everyone is in out pocket, we are so worried about the bills, making ends meet, and staring at the boss wrong in which you could get fired. Combine that each spouse knows each other's failures, and their own; therefore, we can't forgive, accept, grow, and have grace for each other's warts because after a time we are so ashamed our ability to be intimate is gone, The four heads of the apocolypse per dr. Gottman shows up. Than you are really through. How about this set up.. to do the deed without a nice romantic set up. Both men and women need to do this. It is more important to relationship to bond. Oh yeah, kick your stinkin kids, step kids, out of the house at age 23. They will ruin your marriage quicker than anything. As or sex. "are you into it tonight? no I am tired the wife say's' two days later the wife asks the same question, the husband says I am too tired or the sex is boring. Another issue, both men and women both have or one has libido problems due to health issues after age 52. Neither spouse can forgive that because the non ill spouse isn't getting their share of sex, affection, and a sit down dinner with their spouse because of T.V. or the wife is doing chores from 5PM to 11PM.


If it is an issue of making a bad marriage or relationship choice that doesn't seek to be fixed in a reasonable amount of time or with counseling in six months. You are making a misstep. If this is the case cut bait and be gone. You don't have to get to the point you wish the person to take a dirt nap. Part as friends, say it didn't work, move one. The longer you torture yourself or each other it will ruin your chances for a quick recovery due to the emotion of how the other wronged you.

i honestly have no idea where you are going with this...

"The ecologist is continually having to look at the aspects of nature with which he is unfamiliar and perforce must be an amateur for much of his working time.... professionals may carp at omissions, misconstructions, or even downright errors in these pages. perhaps ultimately they may forgive them for the sake of the overall vision that only the amateur, or the ecologist, blithely sets out to experience."G. Evelyn Hutchinson
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post #69 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 03:27 AM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Largely by virtue of Matthew 19:9, both of my XW's zealously committed adultery, thereby rendering me free and clear to remarry!

But Ol' Arb is literally scared sh!tless to even date, much less say "I do's" for the third time!

I think that I've been firmly broken from sucking eggs when it comes to matters of matrimony!
Then some otherwise lucky lady is really missing out, arb!

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #70 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 03:44 AM
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Catholics aren't Sola Scriptura. So, we rely on a combination of Biblical teaching and sacred Tradition, believed to be inspired by the Holy Spirit.
In Catholic school I was taught that the Catholic church's teachings are based on scripture, tradition, and natural law.


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #71 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 03:54 AM
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Then some otherwise lucky lady is really missing out, arb!
Sweetheart! Thank you so very much for your overriding support and outright confidence in an old fart like me!

But I cannot help but feel that if I fell in love with even the most absolutely wonderful, virtuous, loving, faithful, and sexy woman in the entire world, I've become so damned jaded going in, that I'd just somehow unwittingly just drive a woman who didn't have the first cheating bone in her body to cheat on me! Just call it being unduly scared, "gunshy," and grossly uncertain because of what two prior bouts of marital cheating and subsequent divorce processes have largely done to my otherwise pleasant psyche!

And although the Bible speaks adverse to that, there are times lately that I just feel that God is perhaps sending me a message to the effect that I'm probably not really the marrying type!

"To love another person is to see the face of God!" - Jean Valjean from Les Miserables

My Story! http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-t...andonment.html
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post #72 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 03:59 AM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Good point. It's driving me crazy because I know my wife will never change in regards to having a regular sex life in our marriage. Even after all the times of her saying "she will try" I have learned that those are just words. She won't change. It's been years and years!

I hope to have us both talk to my Priest soon. But she said she did not want to. After a long talk I told her I am making an appointment. Even if she does no, I know she won't change. I am not sure if she is capable of change.

She knows good and well that sex means closeness to me. She even acknowledge it. But she will not change. Take just now, for instance. I was talking to her and tried to get close. But she put up her wall.

I am older too. Sex is still a very important part of life to me. It's not dirty, it's not awful, it's beautiful For crying out loud, I don't even want it as much as I used to. Well, that's not true. I do. But any sex is better than zero sex. And perhaps that's where I go wrong. It should not be that way. I should be married to a woman who desires to be with me. None of this nonsense negotiating...
I think her saying she will try just means she is open to it if you can persuade her. She likely still sees getting it to happen as your job.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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Sweetheart! Thank you so very much for your overriding support and outright confidence in an old fart like me!

But I cannot help but feel that if I fell in love with even the most absolutely wonderful, virtuous, loving, faithful, and sexy woman in the entire world, I've become so damned jaded going in, that I'd just somehow unwittingly just drive a woman who didn't have the first cheating bone in her body to cheat on me! Just call it being unduly scared, "gunshy," and grossly uncertain because of what two prior bouts of marital cheating and subsequent divorce processes have largely done to my otherwise pleasant psyche!

And although the Bible speaks adverse to that, there are times lately that I just feel that God is perhaps sending me a message to the effect that I'm probably not really the marrying type!
Just give it more time, arb. Let yourself continue to heal.

You are a very good man. I am telling you as sincerely as I can that a very lucky lady is out there. You are going to be a true gift to her.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #74 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 04:03 AM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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My wife has literally been uninterested in sex since we got married over 15 years ago. Never once has she initiated it. Perhaps once... we suggested it when we got home after she had a few drinks. That was the only time. But all in all, I had to practically beg and make appointments.

But there have been times when we did have sex. And there have been times when the sex we had was wonderful. We did have those times. But all in all, I would say sex averaged once every 3 months. Sometimes more (even a few times a week), but most of the time once every 3 months... When we first got married we went without sex for 4 months. Now she did have a baby so I understand she can't have sex after that. And I know I am only giving an imperfect recollection of our sex life here and now as I type this. But I can say, it's been a sexless marriage according to what marriage experts would describe a sexless marriage to be.

Now it's no sex at all. Not once in 2017. Once in 2016...

She just has no interest in sex. That's what she says.
What she needs to know is that it doesn't matter if she doesnt want sex, if she loves you and wants to stay with you, then she should make the effort to have sex for your sake. What is is doing is very cruel, and completely against what God teaches.
I don't always 'feel' like having sex with my husband when he wants it, but I make the effort and do it for him, because I love him and value my marriage.
How mean and selfish to expect a husband to be faithful, but then deny him sex.

Have you sat her down and told her how deeply unhappy and rejected it makes you feel? How she is threatening the marriage? How she is risking the temptations you feel getting so overwhelming that the they become too strong?
I bet she would be devastated if you had an affair, but she is risking that by what she is doing.
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post #75 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 04:04 AM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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According to the law of moses the punishment for adultery is death . So the cheated on pupils would technically be widows therefore free to marry. Then you have David who is forgiven for committing adultery. "The lord has forgiven you and you will not die of this sin" .

God is kind
But we are no longer living under the law (old testament) you must consider the new covenant (the new law). If a spouse commits adultery then you can divorce them. I guess the other circumstances are not permitted, we live in a fallen world and if both spouses were to do the marriage God's way there would be no need of divorce, because we would have total love, respect, forgiveness, etc.

I don't see why people who profess faith in the bible get so hung up on these matters yet do not follow other parts of the bible. For example it says in Ephesians 5



Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[c] 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.


A wife submitting does not have to mean subjugation as is often the female interpretation. If a man loved his wife the way Christ love the church then there would be little problem in the wife submitting. However, God didn't say men only love your wives if she is perfect, listens to you, serves you, etc. Likewise God didn't say wives submit to your husbands only if he is worthy, treats you well, etc. Therein lies the problem as self centred human beings we find it difficult to follow this.

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