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post #76 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 07:28 AM
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Cool Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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Just give it more time, arb. Let yourself continue to heal.

You are a very good man. I am telling you as sincerely as I can that a very lucky lady is out there. You are going to be a true gift to her.
❤️ Thank you so very much for your vote of confidence in me, @jld ~If there is ever again to be a third Mrs. Arb, it will be people like you that will instill the needed confidence to ever try to inject myself back into "the game" again!

And although I often remain jaded about the possibility of ever attempting to rediscover love, it is this preemptive confidence that people like you so refreshingly exude into my very soul that will, in time, come to enable that success!

To that end, I simply love you guys for your enduring perseverance!



"To love another person is to see the face of God!" - Jean Valjean from Les Miserables

My Story! http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-t...andonment.html
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post #77 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 09:37 AM
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But these days I would like to think I rely on the churches teachings and how the church (Roman Catholic Church), interprets scripture. There simply is just too much room for error through one's own interpretation of scripture.
My feeling is God gave us a brain for a reason, we should use it. A lot of this stuff isn't that hard to understand if you know the basics. If it doesn't fit with the basics, like say the golden rule (do unto others as you would have them do unto yourself) then you probably aren't interpreting it right.

My thing with using the catholic interpretation then you are just dependent on another man's interpretation, plus lots of the rules don't have anything to do with the bible, more like tradition, more like the Pharisees and Sadducees in the gospels. Like the whole fish on Friday thing which was a deal the catholic church made with the fishing industry. The whole Mary thing was a port of the worship of Diana in Rome, the saints substituted for the pantheon, there is nothing about that in the bible. Actually the bible explicitly talks against doing that. It worked just like Christmas was a substitute for a pagan holiday. It's Marketing. The Monkeys, for the Beatles and so forth. Big organizations are too ripe for corruption for me to trust that they have my best interest at heart. By the way it's always going to be a "Man's" interpretation if you are using the Catholic faith not a women's. Also, we all know how infallible they have been lately.

I say read your bible and use reason. Follow the golden rule and you will get pretty close to what God wants.

Last edited by sokillme; 01-30-2017 at 09:52 AM.
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post #78 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 10:15 AM
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I just feel that God is perhaps sending me a message to the effect that I'm probably not really the marrying type!
I'm right there with you Arb, but my take is that I have all that I need and am very happy with that. A life partner is something I want, but have accepted I probably won't have.
I have been very blessed my whole life. I had very poor, but loving parents. I married at the time a good provider and father to my children whom I adored, but he was and remains emotionally retarded. My marriage with that man was good for 20 out of the 21 years we were together. The second husband gave me love for a short time, and abuse for much longer than that. I don't need another round of husband number 2, and I'm terrified of getting into more of the same.

Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.
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post #79 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 10:25 AM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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I did before I answered the post you quoted. My answer remains the same. I am not arguing with you of the definition. I am stating that some members of the church use different variations of the definition to the word pornea as it translates to English.

With the click of a mouse and a little knowledge of search engines, many can have access to knowledge, definitions and interpretations of said knowledge and definitions. With that kind of access to what is written, we can all decide what we choose to believe or not. Quite a cool little tool that is available to the masses eh?
Thats why need to make sure that we ourselves know what the meaning is. Adultery is far too narrow a translation and its not the specific word for adultery anyway. Most of the christians I know always try and understand the real meaning of Gods word as it was written then. We are blessed today to be able to do that with the internet and study tools and different translations to compare with.
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post #80 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 10:32 AM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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According to the law of moses the punishment for adultery is death . So the cheated on pupils would technically be widows therefore free to marry. Then you have David who is forgiven for committing adultery. "The lord has forgiven you and you will not die of this sin" .

God is kind
The baby conceived in their adulterous relationship did die. There are always bad consequences to adultery. Yes there is also forgiveness with repentance.
As you say adultery was and is a very serious sin, which was punishable by death. That's why ending a marriage is permitted for it and similar. Maybe why there is not much mentioned in the Bible about remarriage after it.
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post #81 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 10:33 AM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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for instance, lets say i had two wives. according to scripture, im only supposed to have one wife. but, the bible is clear that divorce is bad, to be avoided. so if i were to decide to live the best righteous life i can, am i supposed to divorce one of my wives and abandon her?

i seriously doubt it.
From the Catholic perspective, it's not possible to have two spouses at one time. The first marriage would be presumed valid and, therefore, the second and subsequent marriage(s) can't exist. The man is supposed to set aside the other "wives", but he is also morally obligated to financially provide for them and any children.


From the Catechism

2387 The predicament of a man who, desiring to convert to the Gospel, is obliged to repudiate one or more wives with whom he has shared years of conjugal life, is understandable. However polygamy is not in accord with the moral law.” [Conjugal] communion is radically contradicted by polygamy; this, in fact, directly negates the plan of God which was revealed from the beginning, because it is contrary to the equal personal dignity of men and women who in matrimony give themselves with a love that is total and therefore unique and exclusive.” The Christian who has previously lived in polygamy has a grave duty in justice to honor the obligations contracted in regard to his former wives and his children.

Follow the evidence where it leads and question everything.
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post #82 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 10:34 AM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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My feeling is God gave us a brain for a reason, we should use it. A lot of this stuff isn't that hard to understand if you know the basics. If it doesn't fit with the basics, like say the golden rule (do unto others as you would have them do unto yourself) then you probably aren't interpreting it right.

My thing with using the catholic interpretation then you are just dependent on another man's interpretation, plus lots of the rules don't have anything to do with the bible, more like tradition, more like the Pharisees and Sadducees in the gospels. Like the whole fish on Friday thing which was a deal the catholic church made with the fishing industry. The whole Mary thing was a port of the worship of Diana in Rome, the saints substituted for the pantheon, there is nothing about that in the bible. Actually the bible explicitly talks against doing that. It worked just like Christmas was a substitute for a pagan holiday. It's Marketing. The Monkeys, for the Beatles and so forth. Big organizations are too ripe for corruption for me to trust that they have my best interest at heart. By the way it's always going to be a "Man's" interpretation if you are using the Catholic faith not a women's. Also, we all know how infallible they have been lately.

I say read your bible and use reason. Follow the golden rule and you will get pretty close to what God wants.
I agree.
Nothing God says to us will ever contradict what the bible says. A lot of RC teaching does just that, or it adds to it. One example is the annulment idea.
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post #83 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 10:38 AM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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❤️ Thank you so very much for your vote of confidence in me, @jld ~If there is ever again to be a third Mrs. Arb, it will be people like you that will instill the needed confidence to ever try to inject myself back into "the game" again!

And although I often remain jaded about the possibility of ever attempting to rediscover love, it is this preemptive confidence that people like you so refreshingly exude into my very soul that will, in time, come to enable that success!

To that end, I simply love you guys for your enduring perseverance!
My lovely brother had 2 wives who cheated on him, one four times. He has been in a relationship now of several years with a really nice lady. It can happen.
My husband and I were deeply hurt by our spouses in our long first marriages(23 and 25 years) we now have a very good marriage together.

Dont despair.
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post #84 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 10:44 AM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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no, i am not catholic. i was raised in a church where people spoke in tongues, slapped each other on the forehead, and ran along the backs of the pews. as an adult, i have not attended any one church regularly. i have mostly just met with people of similar faith. some underground churches. all over the world.


i am more interested in figuring out what kind of actual scripture people choose to follow and whatnot. for instance, some people will knowingly enter into a marriage that the bible calls adultery, and will justify it, but cannot justify continuing in a different kind of union.


for instance, lets say i had two wives. according to scripture, im only supposed to have one wife. but, the bible is clear that divorce is bad, to be avoided. so if i were to decide to live the best righteous life i can, am i supposed to divorce one of my wives and abandon her?

i seriously doubt it.

now, the Catholic church is interesting because they don't follow the bible alone, they follow their traditions, which are believed by Catholics to be divinely inspired. which is evident in peoples responses: i was asking about scripture, they responded with Catholic traditions.

to Pentecostal Christians, there is only the bible.
From an outside perspective, I would answer your question RE: 2 wives as this: the way to live a righteous life is to not have 2 wives, and if you are Christian, you should know this. If you've gone ahead, and done this anyways, (we all sin) then I'd say divorce the second wife, and keep the first--as your vow was to her, and the second marriage would be invalid in the face of your vows. Honor your word. If you have children with the second wife, then you would have obligations to them, but to not see your former "spouse" outside of parenting roles.

If you're looking to the Bible for specific passages, I believe there are some about the "2 become one flesh"

I specifically brought up Catholicism because they are about the only Church that really cares about Annulments (CoE technically has them, but doesn't really utilize them, and so do Methodists, but again, it's not central to the Faith), and thought it was a relevant answer to your Annulment question. I think I explained as well as possible the value of having the Church review your marriage, and determine if the marriage ever actually existed, if you are of the kind that think "till death do us part" actually means what it says. As an individual, who has a stake in the divorce, it would taint your judgement, and so it is best left up to people steeped in scripture, and who can try to offer an objective view. (Btw, fun fact: the RCC actually has 2 councils review your marriage, and both must approve of the Annulment for it to be granted. If one agrees and the other says no, a third council reviews and makes the final decision)

Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
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post #85 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 10:53 AM
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I'm right there with you Arb, but my take is that I have all that I need and am very happy with that. A life partner is something I want, but have accepted I probably won't have.
I have been very blessed my whole life. I had very poor, but loving parents. I married at the time a good provider and father to my children whom I adored, but he was and remains emotionally retarded. My marriage with that man was good for 20 out of the 21 years we were together. The second husband gave me love for a short time, and abuse for much longer than that. I don't need another round of husband number 2, and I'm terrified of getting into more of the same.
I have learnt that we must be very careful about who we date and marry. No one changes after marriage, they are who they are before marriage.
I prayed for many things for my now husband. My first husband wasn't a Christian. He has already slept with 6 women when we met, (we met aged 18 and 22. He told a few lies. He had a bad temper at times. I wasn't following God back then so I didn't see the same things as important as I do now. I thought love was enough.

My top few criteria for my now husband that I asked God for, was that he be a very godly man, a strong committed Christian, a man of good moral values(he never had sex outside marriage, only with his former wife), an honest man, and a man of integrity. I wanted a man who was patient and easy going, the opposite of my first husband.
I wouldn't have considered getting married again without him being a strong believer. I know it meant that i may well never have married again, I was in my 40s then and available godly men in the church of that sort of age are rare. However I wasn't going to make the same mistake, I was older and wiser and a committed christian myself by then.

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post #86 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 11:06 AM
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My top few criteria for my now husband that I asked God for, was that he be a very godly man, a strong committed Christian, a man of good moral values(he never had sex outside marriage, only with his former wife), an honest man, and a man of integrity. I wanted a man who was patient and easy going, the opposite of my first husband.
I wouldn't have considered getting married again without him being a strong believer. I know it meant that i may well never have married again, I was in my 40s then and available godly men in the church of that sort of age are rare. However I wasn't going to make the same mistake, I was older and wiser and a committed christian myself by then.
I did too! I thought second husband was a godsend...ha! Boy was I wrong.

both my marriages were with Christian men that were indeed religious and came from good God fearing families.

To be honest, first husband had pretty much the same characteristics as husband number 2 with the exception of charisma. Husband 2 swept me off my feet with his loving words and actions that were really just not real. He sold me something he knew a was desperately seeking and I fell hook, line and sinker.

There are bad men dressed in godly clothing, second husband is one of many.

Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.
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post #87 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 12:11 PM
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I did too! I thought second husband was a godsend...ha! Boy was I wrong.

both my marriages were with Christian men that were indeed religious and came from good God fearing families.

To be honest, first husband had pretty much the same characteristics as husband number 2 with the exception of charisma. Husband 2 swept me off my feet with his loving words and actions that were really just not real. He sold me something he knew a was desperately seeking and I fell hook, line and sinker.

There are bad men dressed in godly clothing, second husband is one of many.
To describe someone as religious is something that would concern me. We are not in the least religious, Christianity is about a relationship not about a religious set of rules and regulations.I am the least religious person I know. After being taken to a formal religious high church as a child, I have fought against all the nonsense I heard there for a long time, and have replaced it with the truth of God and His Son Jesus and what being a Christian is really all about.

Thats why we need to get to know them well and be led by God. It doesn't matter what family they came from, its what they are like that matters. Do they pray? Read the bible? Have they slept around? Are they honest? How do they treat you? Were they married before and why did it end? How do they treat others? Are they committed to their church? Involved in helping others? Hardworking? How do they treat their family and friends? Are they kind and compassionate? Patient, easy going? Wanting to pray with you regularly?

I guess I knew very soon that he was Gods choice for me,I felt God giving me a word that confirmed it in less than a week. Its so important that we are led by Him.Only He knows us through and through.

Last edited by Diana7; 01-30-2017 at 01:28 PM.
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post #88 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 12:57 PM
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Re: Divorce, Remarriage, Christianity.

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I did too! I thought second husband was a godsend...ha! Boy was I wrong.

both my marriages were with Christian men that were indeed religious and came from good God fearing families.

To be honest, first husband had pretty much the same characteristics as husband number 2 with the exception of charisma. Husband 2 swept me off my feet with his loving words and actions that were really just not real. He sold me something he knew a was desperately seeking and I fell hook, line and sinker.

There are bad men dressed in godly clothing, second husband is one of many.
Sounds like wolves in sheepskin shoes.

I'm really sorry that your affections and love were not appreciated and reciprocated by those posers!

I hope for you to meet a man who is good for you on the inside even if his exterior doesn't look religious.
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post #89 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 01:17 PM
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Thats why we need to get to know them well and be led by God. It doesn't matter what family they came from, its what they are like that matters. Do they pray? Read the bible? Have they slept around? Are they honest? How do they treat you? Were they married before and why did it end? How do they treat others? Are they committed to their church? Involved in helping others? Hardworking? How do they treat their family and friends? Are they kind and compassionate? Patient, easy going? Wanting to pray with you regularly?

I guess I knew very soon that he was Gods choice for me,I felt God giving me a word that confirmed it in less than a week. Its so important that we are led by Him.Only He knows us through and through.
Second husband was a model Christian for all intents and purposes on the outside of course. He was a deacon at his church, took care of his two kids when his wife died. He helped everyone in that church and anyone that needed help. Most of his church loved him for the exception of a few men there that knew something was off with him because his temper was something to reckon with. He could be quite verbally abusive when this happened. But those that butted heads with him were good forgiving Christians and no one is perfect right?

I was careful the second time around because I was older and wiser yet quite naive when it came to abusive types. Well, that didn't prevent what happened. Sadly, God is not the only one that knows us through and through. Abusive humans are found everywhere and know how to pick their prey because they know them through and through too. I was ripe for the picking when I lost my husband to infidelity because I was left vulnerable and easy prey. Live and learn like they say. Well, I surely did learn!



@ConanHub : Sounds like wolves in sheepskin shoes.

I'm really sorry that your affections and love were not appreciated and reciprocated by those posers!

I hope for you to meet a man who is good for you on the inside even if his exterior doesn't look religious.


Oh I hear ya, I really do and thank you.


"Sounds like wolves in sheepskin shoes." Indeed, second husband was a poster child for that one!

Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.
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post #90 of 227 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 01:23 PM
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The only thing I think comes close to an annulment in the bible is

Matthew 19:8 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.

But the verse above does not mention remarriage.

Let's get to the real question here. If a man or woman divorce and remarry do they go to hell when they die because they are adulterers... Isn't that really what we are afraid of?
One thing to remember is that the church is filled with sinners. No Christian is perfect. They tell white lies, lost their patience, curse, and do sinful things. And God looks at all sin as being equal. A liar is just as bad as a murderer. HUMANS are the ones that change the list of sins from least egregious to most horrific. To God, one sin is just as bad as the other. To that end, divorced men/women will not go to hell just because they get remarried.

In purely historical, evangelical Christian terms, what sends people to hell is the lack of a personal relationship with Christ, and not accepting the gift of His death and resurrection to restore us into that relationship after sin was introduced with Adam/Eve. To a Christian, THAT'S the most important thing. Because if it was based purely on sin (one sin or all sin) - and avoiding it - we'd all go to hell.
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