GOD - Page 3 - Talk About Marriage
Politics and Religion This is the place to discuss politics, morality, religion, and anything controversial.

User Tag List

 182Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #31 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 10:18 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,888
Re: GOD

More chicken and the egg. Did lack of religion lead towards dictatorship type societies or did dictatorship type societies lead towards lack of religion. The ironic part is that religion is the best control mechanism ever created. Be good and you'll benefit when you die. So simple to keep people in line.

Yeah, there could be all sorts of things. Could god be the programmer? I guess, but who created god? Easy answer to say he always existed, for all of eternity, sitting there and waiting to build something. Does god even care what we do? Does he care if we pray to him? Does he even pay attention? We have all these ideas of what we purport god is capable of, and there is absolutely no truth. We have books. Books written by men. No evidence of anything.

Is it better to believe in something and be right than to believe in nothing and be wrong? Seems like the easy answer is it is better to believe. But what is the cost? You can't say, there is no cost, I want to. If you found out right now, today, that there is no god...are you legitimately going to say, yeah, well, I don't regret all the god stuff I did before hand. It was totally worth it. That's easy to say while you still believe. Fortunately, there will never come a day where you will be proven wrong. And the same for me.

Herschel is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 10:30 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,290
Re: GOD

Quote:
Originally Posted by UMP View Post
Let's say there is God. Not just a God but The GOD, only one, the "I AM."

Let's call Him the creator of heaven and earth who upholds ALL things by the word of His power.

If this "I AM" created all of humanity and everything that exists from nothing, does the creation have the right to question Him?

If so, why?
Well the I AM in the bible was questioned all the time by everyone in it. In the new testament Jesus questioned him on the cross. I question him all the time. He is God, I don't think he worries about it. I believe giving us life make him the one who invested the most anyway. He gave me life what can I complain about.

I will sound crazy but God it like a Capra film.
sokillme is online now  
post #33 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 10:41 PM
Member
 
EunuchMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 587
Re: GOD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herschel View Post
More chicken and the egg. Did lack of religion lead towards dictatorship type societies or did dictatorship type societies lead towards lack of religion.
Does it matter? The fact that they are usually paired together should be enough to make you realise the correlation. No God, then man becomes god and controls his fellow men.

Quote:
The ironic part is that religion is the best control mechanism ever created. Be good and you'll benefit when you die. So simple to keep people in line.
Then laws are control mechanisms. Do crime and you will be imprisoned. For there to be order there must always be some sort of control. Or are you with Aleister Crowley? Do what thou wilt? As if any society can flourish with every person doing what they want. No way.

Quote:
Yeah, there could be all sorts of things. Could god be the programmer? I guess, but who created god? Easy answer to say he always existed, for all of eternity, sitting there and waiting to build something. Does god even care what we do? Does he care if we pray to him? Does he even pay attention? We have all these ideas of what we purport god is capable of, and there is absolutely no truth. We have books. Books written by men. No evidence of anything.
I deny none of this. That's why Christianity is called a FAITH. And NO ONE goes through life without some faith or another. These "logical" types who claim to be all about the facts, I bet, do and belief totally illogical things in their day to day life. Like I met an atheist friend who believed in "The One". The one specific person you're supposed to marry. When I asked him how it made sense from a logical point of view, he, of course, couldn't tell me.

Quote:
Is it better to believe in something and be right than to believe in nothing and be wrong? Seems like the easy answer is it is better to believe. But what is the cost? You can't say, there is no cost, I want to. If you found out right now, today, that there is no god...are you legitimately going to say, yeah, well, I don't regret all the god stuff I did before hand. It was totally worth it. That's easy to say while you still believe. Fortunately, there will never come a day where you will be proven wrong. And the same for me.
Why would I regret living a life that calls for charity, generosity, and the like?

Even if I don't get likes for it, I'm still going to say it.

Last edited by EunuchMonk; 02-02-2017 at 10:45 PM.
EunuchMonk is offline  
 
post #34 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 10:49 PM
Member
 
Bibi1031's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: texas
Posts: 1,807
Re: GOD

Quote:
Originally Posted by UMP View Post
Let's say there is God. Not just a God but The GOD, only one, the "I AM."

Let's call Him the creator of heaven and earth who upholds ALL things by the word of His power.

If this "I AM" created all of humanity and everything that exists from nothing, does the creation have the right to question Him?

If so, why?
Yes He exists. Billions believe in His existence.

...and he is questioned ALL the time, even by some that don't believe in his existence...

Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bibi1031 is offline  
post #35 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 12:20 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,915
Re: GOD

An excellent question and one I've thought about a lot.

I view the question as a form of "why do we owe our allegiance / love /worship / etc to God.

I can think of 4 basic reasons that could exist:

1) As creator he essential owns us, and we owe him for his act of creation.

2) He fundamentally more moral / noble than us, and by right of his speriority we should follow him.

3). He offers us some reward, sometimes in this life, usually in the next

4). If we don't he will break our kneecaps for all eternity.

I often wonder what religious people would do if they discovered that their god didn't meet some of those requirements.

In my personal opinion

1). We owe him but not without limit. We are thinking self-aware creations and should never be slaves. Stil the universe is really nice and I appreciate it.

2). If true, this would be a great reason.

3). That makes sense - but then worshiping god is not an act of goodness, but just of self-interest. It sort of puts religion in a rather disturbing light,

4). A lot of religions believe this, and there or lots of stories of the horrible things god does to punish people. So it makes sense to follow out of fear.

The problem is that I see no evidence for 2. Certainly the Abrahamic religions describe a God who commits all sorts of atrocities. (from the slaying of first-born of Egypt to Jobe's wife).

To me, those actions overweigh 1. 3 and 4 are then self interest, and I understand them, but I would not be proud to follow god for those reasons.

So I've chosen the other side, as that seems the more moral, if less self-serving one.






Quote:
Originally Posted by UMP View Post
Let's say there is God. Not just a God but The GOD, only one, the "I AM."

Let's call Him the creator of heaven and earth who upholds ALL things by the word of His power.

If this "I AM" created all of humanity and everything that exists from nothing, does the creation have the right to question Him?

If so, why?
uhtred is online now  
post #36 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 01:07 AM
Forum Supporter
 
arbitrator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Central Texas/Brazos Valley
Posts: 11,703
Cool Re: GOD

Quote:
Originally Posted by UMP View Post
Let's say there is God. Not just a God but The GOD, only one, the "I AM."

Let's call Him the creator of heaven and earth who upholds ALL things by the word of His power.

If this "I AM" created all of humanity and everything that exists from nothing, does the creation have the right to question Him?

If so, why?
To preeminently bring us closer to Him through a meaningful relationship with Him, as well as our very own experiences in faith, as well as through those Godly experiences related by others!

"To love another person is to see the face of God!" - Jean Valjean from Les Miserables

My Story!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by arbitrator; 02-03-2017 at 01:11 AM. Reason: Edification
arbitrator is online now  
post #37 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 04:51 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 1,906
Re: GOD

Quote:
Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
An excellent question and one I've thought about a lot.

I view the question as a form of "why do we owe our allegiance / love /worship / etc to God.

I can think of 4 basic reasons that could exist:

1) As creator he essential owns us, and we owe him for his act of creation.

2) He fundamentally more moral / noble than us, and by right of his speriority we should follow him.

3). He offers us some reward, sometimes in this life, usually in the next

4). If we don't he will break our kneecaps for all eternity.

I often wonder what religious people would do if they discovered that their god didn't meet some of those requirements.

In my personal opinion

1). We owe him but not without limit. We are thinking self-aware creations and should never be slaves. Stil the universe is really nice and I appreciate it.

2). If true, this would be a great reason.

3). That makes sense - but then worshiping god is not an act of goodness, but just of self-interest. It sort of puts religion in a rather disturbing light,

4). A lot of religions believe this, and there or lots of stories of the horrible things god does to punish people. So it makes sense to follow out of fear.

The problem is that I see no evidence for 2. Certainly the Abrahamic religions describe a God who commits all sorts of atrocities. (from the slaying of first-born of Egypt to Jobe's wife).

To me, those actions overweigh 1. 3 and 4 are then self interest, and I understand them, but I would not be proud to follow god for those reasons.

So I've chosen the other side, as that seems the more moral, if less self-serving one.
Then why is it that the christians I know are far more moral, kind, compassionate and have far more integrity than those I know who dont follow God? God changes us into being better, nicer more caring people.
Diana7 is offline  
post #38 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 05:30 AM
Forum Supporter
 
SunCMars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: North Coast Nationalist-burg, U.S.A.
Posts: 2,817
Re: GOD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
Then why is it that the christians I know are far more moral, kind, compassionate and have far more integrity than those I know who dont follow God? God changes us into being better, nicer more caring people.
That is THE PLAN for Christians.

"Father Forgive them for they know not what they do". Ain't that the truth!

Humans are imperfect. Some more so than others.

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
SunCMars is online now  
post #39 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 05:46 AM
Forum Supporter
 
arbitrator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Central Texas/Brazos Valley
Posts: 11,703
Cool Re: GOD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
Then why is it that the christians I know are far more moral, kind, compassionate and have far more integrity than those I know who dont follow God? God changes us into being better, nicer more caring people.
@Diana7 ~ Let me attempt to edify your statement just a tad to perhaps foster a far greater truth, although I totally agree with yours as is written:

"God's attempt at changing us to be better, nicer, more caring people, is because He greatly desires us to have and to exhibit those characteristics toward all!

"To love another person is to see the face of God!" - Jean Valjean from Les Miserables

My Story!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
arbitrator is online now  
post #40 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 05:46 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 1,906
Re: GOD

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunCMars View Post
That is THE PLAN for Christians.

"Father Forgive them for they know not what they do". Ain't that the truth!

Humans are imperfect. Some more so than others.
Yes we are all imperfect, the difference with Christians is that we know this and that's why we follow Jesus Christ.

Diana7 is offline  
post #41 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 05:48 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 1,906
Re: GOD

Quote:
Originally Posted by arbitrator View Post
@Diana7 ~ Let me attempt to edify your statement just a tad to perhaps foster a far greater truth, although I totally agree with yours as is written:

"God's attempt at changing us to be better, nicer, more caring people, is because He greatly desires us to have and to exhibit those characteristics toward all!
Yes I agree. We are called to be different.
Diana7 is offline  
post #42 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 06:25 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,888
Re: GOD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
Then why is it that the christians I know are far more moral, kind, compassionate and have far more integrity than those I know who dont follow God? God changes us into being better, nicer more caring people.
This is patently absurd. The Christians I know aren't anything more special than the people that I know that don't believe in god. But of course there's always selection bias.
Herschel is offline  
post #43 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 06:34 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,065
Re: GOD

Such a god as described in the OP would not give a damn one way or the other if we questioned him. In fact such a god would relish being questioned as an opportunity to further his understanding and knowledge. Furthermore, any such god would have no need or desire for the slavish devotion demonstrated by the religious of this world. Which negates the need for any revealed or organized religions in this world. Unfortunately, so many people lack the ability to understand such a god. They lack the ability to have any sort of personal relationship with him outside the confines of whatever religion they adhere to. Instead ascribe all sorts of human attributes to him. Attributes such as love, forgiveness and happiness. So they create religions to which millions flock to in an attempt to make sense of the world they live in. All of which is fine, until they attempt to get me to buy into the nonsense.

At the center of every moMEnt of my life is ME!
Ynot is offline  
post #44 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 06:57 AM
Forum Supporter
 
SunCMars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: North Coast Nationalist-burg, U.S.A.
Posts: 2,817
Re: GOD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herschel View Post
This is patently absurd. The Christians I know aren't anything more special than the people that I know that don't believe in god. But of course there's always selection bias.
The Bitter Root's after-taste sometimes lasts for years, if not a lifetime. Long after it was spit out.

Get over it!

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
SunCMars is online now  
post #45 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 07:00 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,888
Re: GOD

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunCMars View Post
The Bitter Root's after-taste sometimes lasts for years, if not a lifetime. Long after it was spit out.

Get over it!
I don't understand your cryptology. And I'm not sure what I'm supposed to "get over".
Herschel is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Separated and Waiting on husband or God? Corpuswife Relationships and Spirituality 25 02-04-2016 09:54 AM
How does God and the church deal with unrequited love?? spunkycat08 Relationships and Spirituality 9 01-21-2016 05:31 PM
The Karma God shines in Dude again!! Dude007 Going Through Divorce or Separation 7 12-10-2015 12:36 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome