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post #46 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 07:35 AM
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Re: GOD

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Originally Posted by Herschel View Post
The ironic part is that religion is the best control mechanism ever created. Be good and you'll benefit when you die. So simple to keep people in line.

Its funny that without something to keep people "good" they become bad.



I guess, but who created god?

My take is he evolved from a primordial soup sometime after the big bang. That would be possible, right?



If you don't embody controversy, what you say will become just another part of the media driven culture of stifling thought and debate about issues.
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post #47 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 07:47 AM
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Re: GOD

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Originally Posted by VladDracul View Post
The ironic part is that religion is the best control mechanism ever created. Be good and you'll benefit when you die. So simple to keep people in line.

Its funny that without something to keep people "good" they become bad.



I guess, but who created god?

My take is he evolved from a primordial soup sometime after the big bang. That would be possible, right?
If you need something to keep you "good" then there is an inherent problem with you. Maybe this goes to that morality thread, but I have lived my life with integrity and honor and I needed nothing other than me as an influence. So, while god may "keep you in line" for some, it certainly isn't needed. And god-fearing people aren't always adhering to it anyway. Hell, confession seems to be an easy out for many.

There are all sorts of possibilities. I am in no way saying there is no god. I definitely think that if there is a god, he isn't anything like the one we think he is.
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post #48 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 08:31 AM Thread Starter
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Re: GOD

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This is patently absurd. The Christians I know aren't anything more special than the people that I know that don't believe in god. But of course there's always selection bias.
I've been a Christian for over 40 years. With some very few exceptions, I agree with your statement.

In fact, I would say the Bible agrees with you.
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post #49 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 08:51 AM
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Re: GOD

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Originally Posted by Herschel View Post
If you need something to keep you "good" then there is an inherent problem with you. Maybe this goes to that morality thread, but I have lived my life with integrity and honor and I needed nothing other than me as an influence. So, while god may "keep you in line" for some, it certainly isn't needed. And god-fearing people aren't always adhering to it anyway. Hell, confession seems to be an easy out for many.

There are all sorts of possibilities. I am in no way saying there is no god. I definitely think that if there is a god, he isn't anything like the one we think he is.
Aye, sometimes I question the core of one's integrity when they do "good deeds" only out of the fear of a god.
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post #50 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 08:55 AM Thread Starter
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Re: GOD

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Yes, because it is not evident to the creation that "GOD" created him.
The exquisiteness of the human body alone is evidence enough.
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post #51 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
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Re: GOD

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Aye, sometimes I question the core of one's integrity when they do "good deeds" only out of the fear of a god.
The fear of God is the "beginning" of wisdom, not it's end.
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post #52 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 09:08 AM Thread Starter
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Re: GOD

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You created your children
I did not create my children. All I did was have sex.
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post #53 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 09:10 AM
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Re: GOD

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Originally Posted by Herschel View Post
If you need something to keep you "good" then there is an inherent problem with you.
My observation is that atheist, humanist, et cetera, who claim to deal with "reality" always proffer the underlying message that humans don't need religion or any other form of external control to take the high road. (even suggesting that belief in a higher power is implicit in causing most of the evil done by men) All one really has to do to get a clear perspective on the true nature of humans is to watch what happens when law and order is not available, after a natural disaster for example. How'd you like to be on the streets of the south side of Chicago or NYC if they had a major power outage that darkened the streets for several nights?

If you don't embody controversy, what you say will become just another part of the media driven culture of stifling thought and debate about issues.
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post #54 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 09:33 AM
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Re: GOD

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Originally Posted by VladDracul View Post
My observation is that atheist, humanist, et cetera, who claim to deal with "reality" always proffer the underlying message that humans don't need religion or any other form of external control to take the high road. (even suggesting that belief in a higher power is implicit in causing most of the evil done by men) All one really has to do to get a clear perspective on the true nature of humans is to watch what happens when law and order is not available, after a natural disaster for example. How'd you like to be on the streets of the south side of Chicago or NYC if they had a major power outage that darkened the streets for several nights?
False analogy.

Most people in south side Chicago or NYC believe in God, and that apparently would not help anyone stuck there on the streets in your scenario. You are confusing belief with man-made laws and policing, it seems.

As a counter example, you would likely have far less situational danger in a predominantly Buddhist city, even though Buddhists are largely atheists. So, a compassionate philosophy and living a lifestyle consistent with that philosophy is the key to ethical behavior, not mere belief in a supernatural entity. Therefore, Christians, Buddhists, atheists, humanists, etc., can be equally motivated to good behavior. Religion itself is not necessary for ethical behavior.

Love is an ideal thing; marriage is a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

CELIBACY IS NOT HEREDITARY.
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post #55 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 09:43 AM
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Re: GOD

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Originally Posted by Herschel View Post
I don't understand your cryptology. And I'm not sure what I'm supposed to "get over".
You can "get over on me", but not God!

Seriously, For whatever reason you [appear] to hate religion. Many, many people do.

It does help a lot of people to be better people, especially in this selfish, violent world. For their sake, get over your [apparent] hatred and dismissal.

Those that abuse religion for there own selfish uses and those who are flagrant hypocrites should be despised.

I admit, there are some [very few] religions that do seem to invite hatred, incite hatred. And do so in this "modern era". Like WTH! Some religions are crafted to control their adherents and to control others llves and finances.

Their hatred and hateful action has more to do with gaining power and power over others, than in doing any meaningful good for mankind.


This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
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post #56 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 09:48 AM Thread Starter
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Re: GOD

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Originally Posted by Herschel View Post
Be good and you'll benefit when you die. So simple to keep people in line.
Except that there are no good.

Romans 3: [12] They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, NOT ONE.
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post #57 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 09:52 AM
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Re: GOD

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Originally Posted by SunCMars View Post
You can "get over on me", but not God!
Says who? You? Pshaw!

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Seriously, For whatever reason you [appear] to hate religion. Many, many people do.
Not only are you wrong that I "hate" religion, but thank you for being completely dismissive of why. "For whatever reason". Lol, whatever yourself.

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It does help a lot of people to be better people, especially in this selfish, violent world. For their sake, get over your [apparent] hatred and dismissal.
You seem to fail to write the very important words, "In my opinion". I mean, I get it, you are SOOOOOO right, you don't need to write those things (you have already shown how dismissive you can be). But, they are certainly implied and by not writing them, you are just inciting those who do not believe the way you believe (the operative word there is believe).

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Those that abuse religion for there own selfish uses and those who are flagrant hypocrites should be despised.
Honestly, I feel like you are "abusing" it right now with a lot of the rhetoric you are writing.

Quote:
I admit, there are some [very few] religions that do seem to invite hatred, incite hatred. And do so in this "modern era". Like WTH! Some religions are crafted to control their adherents and to control others llves and finances.
Yeah, most of the really popular ones. Like, the ones that went on holy crusades to transform others into their religions. Made it so other religions couldn't be practiced. Really, just made life really ****ty for hundreds and hundreds of years for people who didn't adhere to their standard. I wonder what religion that may be?!?!

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Their hatred and hateful action has more to do with gaining power and power over others, than in doing any meaningful good for mankind.
SO TRUE!!!
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post #58 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 09:53 AM
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Re: GOD

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Originally Posted by UMP View Post
I did not create my children. All I did was have sex.
Eye Yai Yai !

Apparently, your sperm is not yours.

Apparently, you are not a living being, with dynamic living properties that [*by half] replicates itself. I would have never known that, had you not told me.




*oogenesis, not withstanding. Men cannot clone themselves. The ladies can, Adam's Rib has no clothes. Not yet!

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
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post #59 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 09:54 AM
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Re: GOD

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Originally Posted by Married but Happy View Post
False analogy.

Most people in south side Chicago or NYC believe in God, and that apparently would not help anyone stuck there on the streets in your scenario. You are confusing belief with man-made laws and policing, it seems.
Dude, it's the south side of Chicago where the blacks live. Those godless heathens will loot and shoot...cause it rhymes, another thing they are good at.
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post #60 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 09:57 AM
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Re: GOD

I haven't seen the same pattern. I know some very good Christians, and some very bad ones - though by "christian" I mean people who *claim* to be Christian. I can agree that a true christian would be good, but I think that is true of true believers of most of the world's religions.

The problem is that there is no way to know if someone is really christian, or just claiming to be, except by their actions, and that makes the original question self-referential


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Then why is it that the christians I know are far more moral, kind, compassionate and have far more integrity than those I know who dont follow God? God changes us into being better, nicer more caring people.
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