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post #91 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 04:24 PM
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Re: GOD

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The thread was about god and not morality per se but I find it astounding that th very god believers (again perhaps they chose the wrong religion or yhe wrong god) are the ones that believe that without believing in a god people would act like sociopaths all the time.
I will paraphrase a famous atheist who said that when he is asked what is to stop him from raping and murdering all he wants were it not for believing in or fearing a god, he answers that he already does rape and murder as much as he wants to which is zero. He just does not want to ever do such things. The fact that religious people or believers think that wothout having this diety watching over them they would go on a murdering raping rampage is the most self-damning thing anyone can imagine.
I do not trust people who need to belive someone is watching them all the time and only because of this belief are they capable of behaving in a moral manner. Repulsive.
I know I am glad those people have found god.

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post #92 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 04:25 PM
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Re: GOD

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Most people on this forum arent Christians.
I don't think you get what I am saying.
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post #93 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 04:35 PM
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Re: GOD

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Originally Posted by Itwasjustafantasy View Post
The thread was about god and not morality per se but I find it astounding that th very god believers (again perhaps they chose the wrong religion or yhe wrong god) are the ones that believe that without believing in a god people would act like sociopaths all the time.
I will paraphrase a famous atheist who said that when he is asked what is to stop him from raping and murdering all he wants were it not for believing in or fearing a god, he answers that he already does rape and murder as much as he wants to which is zero. He just does not want to ever do such things. The fact that religious people or believers think that wothout having this diety watching over them they would go on a murdering raping rampage is the most self-damning thing anyone can imagine.
I do not trust people who need to belive someone is watching them all the time and only because of this belief are they capable of behaving in a moral manner. Repulsive.
You're welcome to join in the Ethics and Morality thread. The whole point of that thread was to get people to explain whether or not they think morality exists, and if so, why.

Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
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post #94 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 05:11 PM
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Re: GOD

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Its only through Jesus Christ that we are saved, so yes. Thankfully many muslims, for example, are finding Jesus Christ and converting.

I never said that those who arent Christians cant be nice people, I said that in general the christians I know are more moral and caring and honest than those who aren't.
It's only through not-Jesus that we are saved.

See, that seems offensive, because I am going the other route and I am being definitive. You may think you are saved through Jesus, there is no need to say it here. I have never said there is no God. I state my opinion as you should say when you state yours.
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post #95 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 05:25 PM
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Re: GOD

Speaking only for me.

"Organized religion is the greatest mind **** ever perpetrated on

humankind. Period.

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post #96 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 05:26 PM
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Re: GOD

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You're welcome to join in the Ethics and Morality thread. The whole point of that thread was to get people to explain whether or not they think morality exists, and if so, why.
Thanks. I did share my thoughts in that thread. I just got caught up in this one.
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post #97 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 05:38 PM
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Re: GOD

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True, some of us choose to face them. some of us use them to discover more about ourselves. Some of us conclude that is what life is all about. Some just give up. Others decide to believe in fairy tales. Sometimes, they are able to find some one else who believes in the same fairy tales and live happily ever after.
Not me, I believe only in truth.
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post #98 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 05:38 PM
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Re: GOD

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When you don't take Hell as a punishment by necessity, but really just view it as the default of not being in the presence of God, it's really not that shocking. In order to find your way to His presence, you would have to first know Him... or otherwise find your way to His light.

I'm often confused by the feigned horror at this.
Of course in order to believe in heaven or hell, you must first buy into a religious doctrine which accepts the existence of those two places

At the center of every moMEnt of my life is ME!
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post #99 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 05:39 PM
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Re: GOD

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Originally Posted by BradWesley2 View Post
Speaking only for me.

"Organized religion is the greatest mind **** ever perpetrated on

humankind. Period.
Cant speak for religion, but Jesus Christ is the most amazing man and saviour ever. The deception is that He isnt real.

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Last edited by EleGirl; 02-15-2017 at 12:39 PM.
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post #100 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 05:40 PM
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Re: GOD

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It's only through not-Jesus that we are saved.

See, that seems offensive, because I am going the other route and I am being definitive. You may think you are saved through Jesus, there is no need to say it here. I have never said there is no God. I state my opinion as you should say when you state yours.
I am not going to lie.

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post #101 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 05:56 PM
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Re: GOD

One final thought that is perhaps more relevant to the thread. I found this quote but I am not sure who is its author. It pretty much sums up how I feel about questioning god if we humans are indeed one of his precious creations: "If I am wrong and there is a Judeo/christian god, the day of my death will truly be judgment day. I do herebt affirm that I will give him a chance to account for his deeds before I pass judgment upon him."
With an all powerful being such as god, with the ability to create anything he wanted at all, he chose to create men who would make mistakes (sometimes terrible ones) and who could potentially suffer such horrible indescribable pain both physical (think infants with cancer or other chronic conditions) and mental (schizophrenia, personality disorders, dementia etc). Unbelievable. And also, didn't he create the devil? What a loving, kind god indeed. I mean it has been said that without darkness we wouldn't appreciate light, but seriously couldn't this god have thought of just some milder forms of pain? Ugh. I just cannot even...

Ultimately I do not care to change anyone's mind. I've said it before, my daughter is being raised as a freethinker. At 8 years old she already came to the conclusion that there is no santa, no easter bunny, no monsters under her bed, no ghosts...and yet she is capable of being kind and loving. She knows the large majority of her peers believe in santa and in god. She knows to let them believe if it makes them happy. She would never tell them that unless they all follow her path, they will "go to hell and god bless their little heart." Nope. She knows compassion. It is not her job nor mine to get others to think and question what they've been told to believe. She is indeed free to ask questions and to form her own opinion. And I shall stay out of her way should she decide to belive in whatever god of her choice. Religious people are free (at least in America) to preach, to attend church, to wear a cross, even try to shape the law based on their beliefs etc etc. Fantastic. I only expect them to extend the same respect and not try to indoctrinate my child. Let's not forget we are all born atheist and then generally go on to believe in whatever god our family of origin believes.
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post #102 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 06:14 PM
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Re: GOD

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Originally Posted by Itwasjustafantasy View Post
I find it astounding that th very god believers (again perhaps they chose the wrong religion or yhe wrong god) are the ones that believe that without believing in a god people would act like sociopaths all the time.
Don't misconstrue what I said. I didn't say people would act like sociopaths (really a wrong choice of words) if the didn't believe in God. I'm saying they act like it despite believing in God. Not saying that if you have 10 people, all of them will do bad stuff to you. But all it would take is a normal 5-6 to do serious damage. If you doubt folks will kick the crap out of each other when free of authority, why do you think the word "curfew" was invented. Your famous atheist was probably picking somebody's pocket when answering their question.
I'm sure you're real comfortable with you daughter's free thinking, so long as it congruent with yours.

If you don't embody controversy, what you say will become just another part of the media driven culture of stifling thought and debate about issues.

Last edited by VladDracul; 02-03-2017 at 06:18 PM.
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post #103 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 06:16 PM
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Re: GOD

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Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
Cant speak for religion, but Jesus Christ is the most amazing man and saviour ever. The deception is that He isnt real.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but believing Jesus is the savior is a religious belief.

At the center of every moMEnt of my life is ME!
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post #104 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 07:27 PM
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Re: GOD

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I am not going to lie.
Is not saying anything or "I believe" lying? I didn't think so.
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post #105 of 386 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 09:39 PM
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Re: GOD

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Let's say there is God. Not just a God but The GOD, only one, the "I AM."

Let's call Him the creator of heaven and earth who upholds ALL things by the word of His power.

If this "I AM" created all of humanity and everything that exists from nothing, does the creation have the right to question Him?

If so, why?
Assuming your assumption...Do they have a right? There's not enough information to answer. Otherwise yes they probably do have the free will to question Him...and suffer any consequences.

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