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post #286 of 340 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 11:48 AM
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Re: Evolution VS Creation

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No, because the god presented in the old testament is evil by my moral standards. I hope the old testament does not correctly present god, for it if does, he is my enemy.

Long ago as a teenager, before I knew as much as I do now, I did humbly seek god, but he didn't answer, or answered in a way that I didn't understand.
This is along the same lines as the new thread which was just started. I will try to answer there, in reply to GTDad.

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post #287 of 340 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 02:22 AM
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Re: Evolution VS Creation

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I have to say, your statement above is true.

Have you HUMBLY asked Him?

James 4:
[6] But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
Hi UMP. You're quoting the Christian God, how does that prove anything? Muslims can quote the Koran, is that proof, too? Do we have 2 gods now Yahweh and Allah?

Buddhists can quote Buddha, Hindus can quote their scriptures... the Aztecs had gods and legends they told one another, the Romans had dozens of gods and stories surrounding them. On and on and on, mankind has worshiped thousands of gods. Almost all have their own creation stories, I should believe the Christian god created everything because ? Why not Odin and Thor?

How about Laima the Latvian goddess of luck. I want to feel lucky. Will you pray to Laima with me? Please join me: Oh Laima god of luck, I would like to win the lottery today. My favourite number already is number 7 (yea!), I am filled with the holy spirit because I feel lucky.

Or I've been seriously considering the Hawaiian religion (no not surfing and bikinis, though that is very tempting, get thee behind me Satan!). No I'm talking about the Hawaiian religion that is polytheistic, with four deities most prominent: Kāne, Kū, Lono and Kanaloa. You hear that FOUR deities and Christianity, LOL only offers a measly ONE deity. pffft.

Or how about Loki, the jokester among the Norse gods. Q: Where did the teacher send the Viking when he got sick in class? A: to the school Norse! Ha ha. But do not tell this joke to a Viking, he will kill you.

.... I've got hundreds of these. Do you enjoy reading about all the thousands of gods throughout history? That's how relevant scripture quotes from bible are to me.
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post #288 of 340 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 07:51 AM
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Re: Evolution VS Creation

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Originally Posted by SnowToArmPits View Post
Hi UMP. You're quoting the Christian God, how does that prove anything? Muslims can quote the Koran, is that proof, too? Do we have 2 gods now Yahweh and Allah?

Buddhists can quote Buddha, Hindus can quote their scriptures... the Aztecs had gods and legends they told one another, the Romans had dozens of gods and stories surrounding them. On and on and on, mankind has worshiped thousands of gods. Almost all have their own creation stories, I should believe the Christian god created everything because ? Why not Odin and Thor?

How about Laima the Latvian goddess of luck. I want to feel lucky. Will you pray to Laima with me? Please join me: Oh Laima god of luck, I would like to win the lottery today. My favourite number already is number 7 (yea!), I am filled with the holy spirit because I feel lucky.

Or I've been seriously considering the Hawaiian religion (no not surfing and bikinis, though that is very tempting, get thee behind me Satan!). No I'm talking about the Hawaiian religion that is polytheistic, with four deities most prominent: Kāne, Kū, Lono and Kanaloa. You hear that FOUR deities and Christianity, LOL only offers a measly ONE deity. pffft.

Or how about Loki, the jokester among the Norse gods. Q: Where did the teacher send the Viking when he got sick in class? A: to the school Norse! Ha ha. But do not tell this joke to a Viking, he will kill you.

.... I've got hundreds of these. Do you enjoy reading about all the thousands of gods throughout history? That's how relevant scripture quotes from bible are to me.
Oh there are certainly many gods. Anything that places God second in your life is essentially a god in ones life. I've had a few in my day, which were all worthless. You can worship any god you choose to. As for me, I worship the ONLY true and living God, the God of the Bible, the creator of heaven and earth who upholds ALL things by the Word of His power.

Do as you wish.
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post #289 of 340 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 08:27 AM
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Re: Evolution VS Creation

Its an interesting topic to discuss but you will never change either sides mind.
I think the science has more than proven the validity of evolution.

I sit firmly in the science/evolutionists camp.
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post #290 of 340 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 08:35 AM
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Re: Evolution VS Creation

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Originally Posted by AussieRN View Post
Its an interesting topic to discuss but you will never change either sides mind.
I think the science has more than proven the validity of evolution.

I sit firmly in the science/evolutionists camp.
I don't think the point is to change minds per se, just to get people to think for themselves, do their own research, independently of group-think. That's enough.
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post #291 of 340 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 09:31 AM
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Re: Evolution VS Creation

Its interesting to see how other people think when their ideas are so fundamentally different.

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Originally Posted by AussieRN View Post
Its an interesting topic to discuss but you will never change either sides mind.
I think the science has more than proven the validity of evolution.

I sit firmly in the science/evolutionists camp.
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post #292 of 340 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 09:36 AM
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Re: Evolution VS Creation

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Its interesting to see how other people think when their ideas are so fundamentally different.
I want to understand where it's coming from; it can't just be the upbringing.
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post #293 of 340 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 03:59 PM
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Re: Evolution VS Creation

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Oh there are certainly many gods. Anything that places God second in your life is essentially a god in ones life. I've had a few in my day, which were all worthless. You can worship any god you choose to. As for me, I worship the ONLY true and living God, the God of the Bible, the creator of heaven and earth who upholds ALL things by the Word of His power.

Do as you wish.
The Christian proof well it says in the bible that God is THE god, and GOD inspired the bible, therefore the bible is true. It is so obvious and NOT circular reasoning like those Muslims have. You know how it says in the Koran that Allah is THE god, and Allah inspired the Koran therefore the Koran is true. No you can see how the Christian religion is much more grounded in provable fact because you are a Christian and not a Muslim.


Ha ha the silly Muslims and their circular reasoning.
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post #294 of 340 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 05:43 PM
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Re: Evolution VS Creation

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I can just read the drivel here ...

I'm going to print it out and wipe my a$$ with it.
Geesh are you out of cigarettes or something?

.........><)))#">
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post #295 of 340 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 07:27 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Evolution VS Creation

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I don't think the point is to change minds per se, just to get people to think for themselves, do their own research, independently of group-think. That's enough.
That's exactly the point.

It ultimately makes little difference whether one is convinced of intelligent design or abiogenesis and evolution. A scientist believing either will observe the same world around them.

The difference comes in the information the two look for, and they both make new discoveries despite and often because of their different biases. They both advance our knowledge of the world when they are looking for something new.


"The ecologist is continually having to look at the aspects of nature with which he is unfamiliar and perforce must be an amateur for much of his working time.... professionals may carp at omissions, misconstructions, or even downright errors in these pages. perhaps ultimately they may forgive them for the sake of the overall vision that only the amateur, or the ecologist, blithely sets out to experience."G. Evelyn Hutchinson
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post #296 of 340 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 08:32 PM
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Re: Evolution VS Creation

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That's exactly the point.



It ultimately makes little difference whether one is convinced of intelligent design or abiogenesis and evolution. A scientist believing either will observe the same world around them.



The difference comes in the information the two look for, and they both make new discoveries despite and often because of their different biases. They both advance our knowledge of the world when they are looking for something new.


The problem is that even aside from any bias, there cannot be evidence for intelligent design. There are no possible experimental designs for investigation of ID. So, I guess by default anyone who chooses to believe in intelligent design will assume those that show no evidence to be biased?

It's a faulty argument.


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post #297 of 340 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Evolution VS Creation

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The problem is that even aside from any bias, there cannot be evidence for intelligent design. There are no possible experimental designs for investigation of ID. So, I guess by default anyone who chooses to believe in intelligent design will assume those that show no evidence to be biased?

It's a faulty argument.


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Evidence of intelligent design would be the observation of any entity that seems do defy the an explanation for its existence.

You say there is no evidence for ID because of bias, and not because there are no observances that can be seen as evidence for intelligent design.

It is intellectually lazy to say that there is no evidence of intelligent design. Want me to match such laziness? I could take every thing you could possibly name and call it proof of a creator simply because it exists. That would be foolish.

Evidence is interpreted. It is as fluid as the interpreter.

"The ecologist is continually having to look at the aspects of nature with which he is unfamiliar and perforce must be an amateur for much of his working time.... professionals may carp at omissions, misconstructions, or even downright errors in these pages. perhaps ultimately they may forgive them for the sake of the overall vision that only the amateur, or the ecologist, blithely sets out to experience."G. Evelyn Hutchinson
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post #298 of 340 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 09:14 PM
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Re: Evolution VS Creation

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Evidence of intelligent design would be the observation of any entity that seems do defy the an explanation for its existence.
And, that is what I'm saying. Such is not how science operates on a research level. We don't look at evidence that defies explanation and default to a conclusion "it must be the designer". We look at it as a new problem with new aims to design experiments around.

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Originally Posted by As'laDain View Post
You say there is no evidence for ID because of bias, and not because there are no observances that can be seen as evidence for intelligent design.
I'm simply saying you can't design a hypothesis or sets of testable aims for a designer. To default to a designer would be to set your conclusion ahead of any evidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by As'laDain View Post
It is intellectually lazy to say that there is no evidence of intelligent design. Want me to match such laziness?

To the contrary, it is intellectually lazy to draw a conclusion either without evidence or as default due to lack of evidence. It just means more work has to carried out to investigate the process.



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post #299 of 340 (permalink) Old 03-22-2017, 12:59 PM
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Re: Evolution VS Creation

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Hi UMP. You're quoting the Christian God, how does that prove anything? Muslims can quote the Koran, is that proof, too? Do we have 2 gods now Yahweh and Allah?

Buddhists can quote Buddha, Hindus can quote their scriptures... the Aztecs had gods and legends they told one another, the Romans had dozens of gods and stories surrounding them. On and on and on, mankind has worshiped thousands of gods. Almost all have their own creation stories, I should believe the Christian god created everything because ? Why not Odin and Thor?

How about Laima the Latvian goddess of luck. I want to feel lucky. Will you pray to Laima with me? Please join me: Oh Laima god of luck, I would like to win the lottery today. My favourite number already is number 7 (yea!), I am filled with the holy spirit because I feel lucky.

Or I've been seriously considering the Hawaiian religion (no not surfing and bikinis, though that is very tempting, get thee behind me Satan!). No I'm talking about the Hawaiian religion that is polytheistic, with four deities most prominent: Kāne, Kū, Lono and Kanaloa. You hear that FOUR deities and Christianity, LOL only offers a measly ONE deity. pffft.

Or how about Loki, the jokester among the Norse gods. Q: Where did the teacher send the Viking when he got sick in class? A: to the school Norse! Ha ha. But do not tell this joke to a Viking, he will kill you.

.... I've got hundreds of these. Do you enjoy reading about all the thousands of gods throughout history? That's how relevant scripture quotes from bible are to me.
My daughter prays to Zeus. She figures he's just about as good as any other god, plus he's powerful.
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post #300 of 340 (permalink) Old 03-22-2017, 01:00 PM
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Re: Evolution VS Creation

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As for me, I worship the ONLY true and living God, the God of the Bible, the creator of heaven and earth who upholds ALL things by the Word of His power.
Why isn't Allah the only true and living god?
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