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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 06:22 PM
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Re: Draft of an executive order

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Which is another reason I am perplexed by all the so-called Constitutional originalists cheering every EO issued by Trump. I would much rather see him (or any POTUS) proposing legislation than writing orders.
They're cheering every time he takes a dump as far as I can tell.

The talk radio waves are full of hosts and listeners who, a week before the election were all "f*ck it all -- we will lose with this bozo" to "mirror mirror on the wall who is the smartest president of them all"...

That, my friends, is lack of critical thinking. But hey, as long as we feel happy...

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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 06:24 PM
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Re: Draft of an executive order

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What is the point of this post? Obama did more executive orders in his first 12 days than Trump. You admit that.

From that you conclude Trump is worse?

Looks like the same science that gave us global warming.
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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 06:32 PM
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Re: Draft of an executive order

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They're cheering every time he takes a dump as far as I can tell.

The talk radio waves are full of hosts and listeners who, a week before the election were all "f*ck it all -- we will lose with this bozo" to "mirror mirror on the wall who is the smartest president of them all"...

That, my friends, is lack of critical thinking. But hey, as long as we feel happy...
You got that right. I am amazed at how short the memory span is of so many. Sean Hannity said on air that Obama was "not my President" but now he is incensed that any liberal would say the same thing. They also say Trump has to do EOs because otherwise the Dems will filibuster, and forget how Obama said the same things. Obama was acting like an emperor when he issued an EO and now Trump is just doing what he needs to do. Of course the same thing happened when Obama took over for Bush. Even though Obama simply followed along the Bush game plan. He was the devil incarnate for doing the very same things. Then when he followed up on things Bush had promised, he was blamed for them. FYI I did NOT then or NOW support Obama, I am discussing the hypocrisy from both sides.

One other thing that scares the crap out of me. Trump has said "just go nuclear" if his supreme court nominee is held up. I am telling you, that would be the worst thing ever! Had that option been available before Obama's nominee (who Constitutionally should have been voted on yes or no) would now be a justice. Trump and the GOP will not be in power forever. They should be thankful that there are still a few checks and balances left before going "nuclear" because someday that "nuclear" option will be used against them if that is the case.

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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 06:39 PM
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Re: Draft of an executive order

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They're cheering every time he takes a dump as far as I can tell.

The talk radio waves are full of hosts and listeners who, a week before the election were all "f*ck it all -- we will lose with this bozo" to "mirror mirror on the wall who is the smartest president of them all"...

That, my friends, is lack of critical thinking. But hey, as long as we feel happy...
I would tend to agree....It's either a honeymoon period...or the beginning of a waking nightmare, depending upon a persons point of view.

I am more interested to see the results...concrete results of both EO's and legislation...from what I have seen...in my short life thus far...is tons of talk and very little action that results in any improvement to lives of the typical citizen.

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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 08:14 PM
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Re: Draft of an executive order

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I would tend to agree....It's either a honeymoon period...or the beginning of a waking nightmare, depending upon a persons point of view.

I am more interested to see the results...concrete results of both EO's and legislation...from what I have seen...in my short life thus far...is tons of talk and very little action that results in any improvement to lives of the typical citizen.
That is only because no one in Washington truly represents the typical citizen aka We the PEOPLE. Instead they represent the "other" people that our SCOTUS (lead by John Roberts) recently reaffirmed as "people". IOW it is corporations that they represent due to CU v FEC. Why bother is peons when they can go before a corporate board and have unlimited amounts money spent on their behalf in support of them. Often times the corporations donate via SuperPACs which are not required by law to report who their donors are. Then the SuperPACs have names that no one could disagree with and are assumed to really just represent the typical citizen.

Trump I fear is just a quantum leap forward in that evolution

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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 10:09 AM
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Re: Draft of an executive order

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That is only because no one in Washington truly represents the typical citizen aka We the PEOPLE. Instead they represent the "other" people that our SCOTUS (lead by John Roberts) recently reaffirmed as "people". IOW it is corporations that they represent due to CU v FEC. Why bother is peons when they can go before a corporate board and have unlimited amounts money spent on their behalf in support of them. Often times the corporations donate via SuperPACs which are not required by law to report who their donors are. Then the SuperPACs have names that no one could disagree with and are assumed to really just represent the typical citizen.

Trump I fear is just a quantum leap forward in that evolution
He's really (so far) a slightly toned down Republican version of his direct predecessor. Similar, but slightly smaller cult of personality. I thought this was the problem with him before the primaries got going. The people on the Right that are venerating him are just responding the same way we saw Dems respond to Obama when he was elected.

I'm not a fan of EO's, inasmuch as they are used to create the equivalent of legislation, or to avert / subvert the law. So far, I haven't seen any EO's that are threatening to our liberty, or to the rule of law--but I've not read all of them. I'm not bothered by the EO RE: Immigrants from 7 countries, because Congress has granted such Authority to the POTUS. I'm not bothered by his EO ordering reduction of the regulatory bureaucracy, because that should be a net gain for liberty, and a reduction of unconstitutional laws. Another EO was ceremonial--asking (not commanding) Americans to wear red on Feb 3 in a Heart Health Awareness mission. His EO for Ethics (Drain the Swamp) by making all appointees agree to not lobby for 5 years after leaving public service is another good one, which isn't unconstitutional, and merely memorializes his contract requirement for his own appointees.

So far, nothing that I've seen would require a condemnation from the GOP. But I probably missed a bunch of them.
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 10:34 AM
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Re: Draft of an executive order

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He's really (so far) a slightly toned down Republican version of his direct predecessor. Similar, but slightly smaller cult of personality. I thought this was the problem with him before the primaries got going. The people on the Right that are venerating him are just responding the same way we saw Dems respond to Obama when he was elected.

I'm not a fan of EO's, inasmuch as they are used to create the equivalent of legislation, or to avert / subvert the law. So far, I haven't seen any EO's that are threatening to our liberty, or to the rule of law--but I've not read all of them. I'm not bothered by the EO RE: Immigrants from 7 countries, because Congress has granted such Authority to the POTUS. I'm not bothered by his EO ordering reduction of the regulatory bureaucracy, because that should be a net gain for liberty, and a reduction of unconstitutional laws. Another EO was ceremonial--asking (not commanding) Americans to wear red on Feb 3 in a Heart Health Awareness mission. His EO for Ethics (Drain the Swamp) by making all appointees agree to not lobby for 5 years after leaving public service is another good one, which isn't unconstitutional, and merely memorializes his contract requirement for his own appointees.

So far, nothing that I've seen would require a condemnation from the GOP. But I probably missed a bunch of them.
My issue is not with the content or subject of the EO, but with the idea of the EO itself. We have checks and balances, the use of an EO to make law or change law is the problem I have. The GOP cheer leading on Trump while denigrating Obama (and vice versa for the Dems) is just another aspect of the slow destruction of our system of government (which is what truly made America great in the first place)

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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 10:45 AM
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Re: Draft of an executive order

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My issue is not with the content or subject of the EO, but with the idea of the EO itself. We have checks and balances, the use of an EO to make law or change law is the problem I have. The GOP cheer leading on Trump while denigrating Obama (and vice versa for the Dems) is just another aspect of the slow destruction of our system of government (which is what truly made America great in the first place)
I think we're in agreement for the most part. EO's should only be used to order agencies / departments etc within the framework of the Constitution, and with the Constitutional, lawful authority granted by Congress (or the purely ceremonial, as in the Feb. 3rd EO I mentioned). The EO on immigrants falls within that framework. The EO on regulation not so much, however, Congress has ceded that ground, and we aren't going to get it back any time soon. The right thing to be done would be for Congress to take back any regulatory power, eliminate all existing regulations issued by agencies, and then pass legislation for the agencies to enforce. That's a pipe dream though--Congress likes not being responsible for the regulations, as they don't have to answer for it come election day.

Sadly, as long as we are stuck with the situation we have, and Presidents issue edicts like a Roman Dictator, then we can at least hope that the edicts restore our liberties, rather than take them away. I'll take the improvement, for as short lived as it may be.

RE: the slow destruction of our system, well, I think that's so far along that we couldn't hope to turn it around. I'd like for us to. But the will of the People isn't there. I warned my friends who supported Trump at the beginning of his campaign for the GOP nomination that he was the kind of man who could set us up for our own Crossing of the Rubicon and subsequent end of the Republic. I still think that is a distinct possibility. This erosion didn't start with him, and he even if that happens, it won't be as if he was the primary cause--this has been the trajectory since Lincoln.

Last edited by Kivlor; 02-06-2017 at 11:04 AM. Reason: sentence was missing a word
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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 10:53 AM
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Re: Draft of an executive order

@Ynot
This reminds me of a post I put up here a while back, in which I had proposed several Constitutional Amendments which would restore Liberty and the system of governance that has made us what we are... The quote from me was:

The 27th Amendment. Section 1: Henceforth, all previous legislation passed into law by any Act of Congress shall be considered repealed 5 years from the date of ratification of this Amendment. All future legislation passed into law by any Act of Congress shall have a maximum duration of 5 years, upon which it will immediately expire. Congress may not pass any Act that automatically renews itself at such expiration.

Section 2: Henceforth, all codes, rules, mandates or other form of regulation written and / or enforced by any federal agency administration or organization is hereby immediately repealed.

Section 3: Congress alone reserves the right to draft and pass legislation and regulation to govern the several states and their citizens, and as such Congress may not defer nor confer such powers to any federal agency, administration nor organization.

Section 4:
Congress may not pass any single Act, Legislation or Regulation which totals more than 100 pages in length when typed, Single Spaced, Size 12, Times New Roman font.

It ensures that bad laws die, and if a law is that great, Congress will find a way to save it. No more 10000 page laws that no citizen can hope to understand. Simple. Elegant. Effective.
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 11:48 AM
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Re: Draft of an executive order

Don't forget to repeal the 17th Amendment


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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 11:53 AM
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Re: Draft of an executive order

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Obama averaged 34 executive orders per year, in par with his predecessors.

Trump is at 17 in two weeks in office, or slightly better than one a day.

Of course, the Faithful will point out that Obama signed a flurry of executive orders his first 12 days too so... Let's wait a year for better numbers.

Obama averaged fewest executive orders since Cleveland | Pew Research Center
My point was, did you say anything when Obama issued his EOs? Secondly, after a while, even Obama's party members didn't go along with his plans, but the media and the left blamed it on the GOP.
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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 12:55 PM
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Re: Draft of an executive order

Wait for a few months... EO's are a way of life. But kneejerk EO's like the ban list or the 'lets repeal obamacare' EO are fairly indicative of someone who's got his ego way ahead of reality.

I'm a very deliberate and thoughtful person. I expect as much from my President.
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-07-2017, 11:59 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Draft of an executive order

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Wait for a few months... EO's are a way of life. But kneejerk EO's like the ban list or the 'lets repeal obamacare' EO are fairly indicative of someone who's got his ego way ahead of reality.

I'm a very deliberate and thoughtful person. I expect as much from my President.
So you just play this role on the internet?

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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 06:31 AM
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Re: Draft of an executive order

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So you just play this role on the internet?
In the internet nobody knows that you're a dog. Or cat.
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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 07:16 AM
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Re: Draft of an executive order

The EO in the OP is just proof that Trump has no idea what he's doing. It would present so many problems to have a Federal Government where some employees refuse to do their job because of their "religion." Apparently we want a Christian theocratic state? Yeah, THAT has never been tried. I really don't get the persecution complex of Christians. Had Obama released the lions on them or something?

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