White Pins For White Privilege - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
Politics and Religion This is the place to discuss politics, morality, religion, and anything controversial.

User Tag List

 830Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #16 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 06:50 PM
Member
 
VladDracul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 847
Re: White Pins For White Privilege

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieParker View Post
"White privilege" is such a terribly hurtful term. Can't they come up with term that is less offensive?
Its a control phrase designed to bring about irrational shame to weaken one group by circumventing critical thought therby providing an advantage to another group. I'm on to this crap, have tried to inoculate myself from its influence, and its so well thought out I'm still tempted to offer up an apology and a sacrifice. But I get over it quickly and think to myself, "how can folks be so foolish to buy into this manipulation".


If you don't embody controversy, what you say will become just another part of the media driven culture of stifling thought and debate about issues.
VladDracul is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 08:04 AM
Member
 
Sixlet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: by the sea
Posts: 46
Re: White Pins For White Privilege

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon Pink View Post
Examples of white privilege:

Never being pulled over for driving a car in a white neighborhood.
Never being asked if I would deliver something to the nearest soup kitchen because I'm black and therefore know where all the free **** is being handed out.
Never having been the subject of "nigger jokes."
Never seeing a popular movie, or popular novel, or popular TV show that has not one single white person in it.
Never having to buy Nude pantyhose only to find nude is only meant for dark skinned women because on me Nude looks brown.
Never having to creat my own make up in order to find shades that match my skin tone.
Never having someone grab their purse tighter because I sat near them.
Being the first in my lineage to ever see white people as successful.
Never being seen as the exception to the rule when I am successful.
Never having to be extra careful about being angry.
Never having witnessed a white man get shot by the police because he was running away...with his hands up...
Never having to prove I have a right to be walking around in the neighborhood where I live.

as you go through this list and defend against it by being able to name someone who knows a guy who is white and he/she also had that happen, this list is a preponderance. It is an overwhelming state of normal for people of color that white people take for granted.

Can any white person name a time when their race was intentionally denied rights? Do you all realize this country is STILL trying to suppress the black vote?

White privilege is alive and well.

Proceed with denials...
I'm so glad you posted this.

Last edited by EleGirl; 02-22-2017 at 02:19 AM.
Sixlet is offline  
post #18 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 08:45 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 229
Re: White Pins For White Privilege

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon Pink View Post
Examples of white privilege:
Never being seen as the exception to the rule when I am successful.
It's the self-contradiction here that is entertaining. The premise that the whites are more successful than other races, therefore other races are kept down. Sure, let's assume this is true for a moment (although I would disagree with respect to Asian-Americans). So that's the "rule" according to the left. But when that "rule" is broken by an oppressed minority who succeeds in spite of the odds against him/her, we're supposed to pretend that there was nothing unusual about it. If we do see that success as an exception, we're racist according to Anon Pink's list of forbidden racist behaviors. But we're simultaneously expected to acknowledge that the deck was stacked against them. Thinking that the deck is fair is racist; thinking that the deck is stacked (and hard to overcome) is racist. Cognitive dissonance.

Without going full Godwin, this policy isn't too different from Jews being made to wear a Star of David. While there's no rule forcing these white kids to wear a symbol, we all know that they'll be given dirty looks or otherwise harassed by their peers for not falling in line. The purpose of this exercise is to expose the non-believers. This is just the left being the left, once again.
Tatsuhiko is offline  
 
post #19 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 09:08 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: MI
Posts: 3,581
Re: White Pins For White Privilege

How on earth are we ever going to get past racism, when we force this type of reverse racism all the time? We need to come together, not continue to do stuff to force us apart. Black lives matter. this bs, it is never ending.

Sorry, but all lives matter and why should I feel guilty about supposed white privilege that I never really got?
naiveonedave is offline  
post #20 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 09:18 AM
Member
 
Yeswecan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,268
Re: White Pins For White Privilege

Let's talk black privilege. From our one and only CNN new room:

Quote:
"In America you can't even talk about whiteness," said Drew Domalick, who lives in Green Bay, Wisconsin. "If you try to embrace being white, you are portrayed as being a racist. If we had a White History Month, that would be viewed as a racist holiday."
Domalick isn't the only one who believes in black privilege. The term is being deployed in conservative circles as a rhetorical counterattack to the growing use of the term "white privilege." It's part of a larger transformation: White is becoming the new black.
Quote:
Blacks can belong to clubs and organizations that cater specifically to their race, but there's no National Association for the Advancement of White People because such a group would be deemed racist. Blacks can call white people "honky" and "cracker," but whites cannot use the N-word.
Good article. Please read it all:

It's time to talk about black privilege - CNN.com

I do not deny there are privileges. Issues in the past(some still persist) demonstrate privilege. However, it appears both races are receiving their own types of privileges.

“You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.”
― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

Last edited by Yeswecan; 02-15-2017 at 09:23 AM.
Yeswecan is offline  
post #21 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 09:26 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
EllisRedding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Valhalla (Or the Northeast USA)
Posts: 6,109
Re: White Pins For White Privilege

Under "white privilege", what groups fall under "white" and "non white"? Is it really as simple as black vs non black?
EllisRedding is offline  
post #22 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 09:27 AM
Member
 
Yeswecan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,268
Re: White Pins For White Privilege

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon Pink View Post

Can any white person name a time when their race was intentionally denied rights? Do you all realize this country is STILL trying to suppress the black vote?
The white vote is suppress...normally by Black Panthers holding clubs outside the voting stations. See Philadelphia 2008 Obama/McCain voting day.

Almost all of what you posted is racial profiling. That is an issue unto it's own and not a white privilege. Or are you stretching it to say it is a privilege not to get pulled over in a white neighborhood? Again, racial profiling.

One other item, what do you have for us demonstrating the black vote is suppressed even today? Last I recall the Obama campaign systematically focused on major cities that are predominately black. The strategy worked on a grand scale.

“You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.”
― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

Last edited by Yeswecan; 02-15-2017 at 10:01 AM.
Yeswecan is offline  
post #23 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 09:54 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,105
Re: White Pins For White Privilege

I think the push to recognize "white privilege" is one of the most damaging concepts for equality in the last couple of decades. It creates a division between "white" and "non-white". It groups a wide range of people into a single category - the essence of racism and exactly the type of thing we are trying to eliminate.

What is called "white privilege" is in fact what *should* be normal for everyone. The problem is not that whites have too much privilege, its that other groups have too little. I do not want the police to illegally stop more white people, I want them to stop illegally stopping black people.

When you isolate at attack a group of people they tend to find common cause. By assuming that all white people are somehow responsible for the oppression in society, you drive them away from the cause you would like them to support.

I think the recent election is the result of this and other similar social pressures. If I'm accused of having "privilege" and called a racist because I don't support all of the methods progressives want to use to eliminate oppression, then there is a strong tendency to say "screw it, I'm voting for the evil white guy to teach you all a lesson". I didn't, but I thought about it, and I'm sure a lot of people actually did it.

[there are other reasons people voted for Trump, but in US elections just a percent or two of people changing their votes for some reason is a big deal]


If you want to see how to operate a social movement, look at the gay rights movement over the last 30 years. They were very inclusive, they did not attempt to shame people for being straight, they did not insist that anyone who didn't hold to their entire agenda was evil, they wanted acceptance and equal rights. The result was a fantastic success: When I was growing up, being "gay" was among the worst insults possible,and illegal in many jurisdictions. Now in large swaths of the country it is completely acceptable - its perfectly normal to send congratulatory notes to gay couples on their anniversaries, and to invite same-sex partners to business / social occasions.

If you want to fix a social problem in a democracy you need to attract allies, not drive them away.
uhtred is offline  
post #24 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 10:03 AM
Member
 
Kivlor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Rural Midwest
Posts: 2,703
Re: White Pins For White Privilege

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon Pink View Post
Examples of white privilege:

Never being pulled over for driving a car in a white neighborhood.
Never being asked if I would deliver something to the nearest soup kitchen because I'm black and therefore know where all the free sh!t is being handed out.
Never having been the subject of "nigger jokes."
Never seeing a popular movie, or popular novel, or popular TV show that has not one single white person in it.
Never having to buy Nude pantyhose only to find nude is only meant for dark skinned women because on me Nude looks brown.
Never having to creat my own make up in order to find shades that match my skin tone.
Never having someone grab their purse tighter because I sat near them.
Being the first in my lineage to ever see white people as successful.
Never being seen as the exception to the rule when I am successful.
Never having to be extra careful about being angry.
Never having witnessed a white man get shot by the police because he was running away...with his hands up...
Never having to prove I have a right to be walking around in the neighborhood where I live.
1. No but I've been pulled over for being white in a non-white neighborhood. Which is the logical equivalent.
2. This is retarded. Look up averages. It's not a "privilege" it's the consequence of being 12% of the population. There should probably be nearly zero black people in movies because of that. (less people means a smaller pool to reach that high of success... etc) Also, do we get to complain about India not having the requisite number of whites in Bollywood movies?
3. I have been the subject of "nigger" jokes and comments, and I'm white. I've also been the subject of white jokes. Most of the whites I know have been.
4.I'm a man, so I don't buy pantyhose. Are you complaining about the naming of a "pantyhose color"? Is that "privilege"? Are we relegating "privilege to only the most mundane of shopping items names?
5. Go to a makeup store. They sell all colors. I live in a 90%+ white town and they do this.
6. A lot of us men have experienced this. I've also experienced the opposite, where a woman scooted closer to me for protection.
7. What does this even mean?
8. I'm constantly the "exception to the rule" in my success because I only have a HS Diploma. I've seen a lot more people act shocked about that than about race... and tangentially, if people think because of your skin you probably can't hold down a job, what does that tell you about how people with your skin color tend to behave?
9. Um, hello? Man? I defy any white man to get belligerent with the cops in my town. Or in general. It doesn't end well, I've been there.
10. Have you ever witnessed a non-white man shot in the back while running away with his hands up? (Remember, we're talking witnessed, miss, not "heard about".)
11. Yes. I've had to prove this. More than once. I've also had to prove I had a right to be driving in a neighborhood I live in. What of it?

Your list is racially motivated, and denies any issues anyone but black people have. It is disingenuous and misleading. Moreover, almost every one of these has nothing to do with any injustice, and is about the most meaningless of complaints--like the name of the pantyhose you're shopping for. If that's your "injustice" you are quite privileged in this world and need to grow up. If you think that's privilege, and that it sets you as above someone else, you are a moron and need your head examined.


[/quote]as you go through this list and defend against it by being able to name someone who knows a guy who is white and he/she also had that happen, this list is a preponderance. It is an overwhelming state of normal for people of color that white people take for granted.[/quote]

Even if you can disprove me, it doesn't count because I must be right.

Quote:
Can any white person name a time when their race was intentionally denied rights? Do you all realize this country is STILL trying to suppress the black vote?

White privilege is alive and well.

Proceed with denials...
I can name plenty of times that white people have been discriminated against, in favor of lower qualified POC, just because of skin color. In fact, the law enshrines it. Colleges enforce it (and it's worse for Asians there btw). Racism is alive and well, it's just vogue to be racist against white people today.

Here's a question for you: if a white man stood up in a room of black people, and told nigger jokes, how long do you think he would last before violence erupted? If a black person stood up in a room of white people and told white jokes, how long do you think they would last? (Hint: The answer to #2 is there wouldn't be any violence)

Here's one more: Name to us an example of white people today suppressing the black vote.

Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
Kivlor is offline  
post #25 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 10:06 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,083
Re: White Pins For White Privilege

All I know is I most of my Black male friends that I had in my 20's are dead. I am in my 40's. They were not bad men, were not in gangs. They were victims of crimes mostly but also because of no access to preventative healthcare. It's much harder to take care of yourself when you have no support and your whole life is hustling. Now not all of that is because of the color of their skin, but it sure didn't help.

However, the white privilege meme is like everything else modern progressives do. Instead of selling it like, "Our fellow Americans are suffering and we need to do better by them." They create a slogan and meme with their usual divisiveness and lack of grace. Once again turning off half of the population that they need to get on board. Seriously if I was someone who was underprivileged I would tell them to shut the hell up. You're not helping. It's also no surprise that the people who push this stuff are basically the very upper 1% white people. The only connection they have to underprivileged people is the ones that let them play messiah and feed their ego.
Modern progressivism is the single worst thing to happen to the underprivileged since communism.

sokillme is online now  
post #26 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 10:16 AM
Member
 
VladDracul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 847
Re: White Pins For White Privilege

Some of the stuff Anon itemized are plain embellishment and the result of a capitalistic/market driven society. The silliest thing on her list are shows without blacks. Maybe I don't watch enough TV but my favorites are pretty much salt and pepper. My favorite now is "24" with a black Jack Bauer.

If you don't embody controversy, what you say will become just another part of the media driven culture of stifling thought and debate about issues.
VladDracul is offline  
post #27 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 10:18 AM
Member
 
Yeswecan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,268
Re: White Pins For White Privilege

Quote:
Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
All I know is I most of my Black male friends that I had in my 20's are dead. I am in my 40's. They were not bad men, were not in gangs. They were victims of crimes mostly but also because of no access to preventative healthcare. It's much harder to take care of yourself when you have no support and your whole life is hustling. Now not all of that is because of the color of their skin, but it sure didn't help.
Healthcare or lack there of is not solely a black issue. All races do not have access to healthcare to some degree. Could not afford it. Job did not offer healthcare. This is the reason for mandated ACA.

At any rate, I do not see how your post adds or detracts from the notion of white privilege.

“You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.”
― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road
Yeswecan is offline  
post #28 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 11:11 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,083
Re: White Pins For White Privilege

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeswecan View Post
At any rate, I do not see how your post adds or detracts from the notion of white privilege.
I'm not surprised. The "White" in the saying basically assures that you are going to be defensive about it. I look at it like this no matter what your skin color, if you have a stable family and a good environment to grow up in you have a better chance in life. You are also much better prepared and have more resources to recover from catastrophic events, such as losing a job or being sick. Now you are going to say, well that's not my problem. But it is because you pay taxes, and for the most part, your taxes don't solve these issues. In many cases, they perpetuate them. Now you are going to say well get rid of all the taxes. Then you are going to need to pay for security forces or prisons to hold the people who come after you who are in these situations. Society is not unconnected. Besides all that being a decent honorable human being means caring for your fellow man.

It also must be remembered that in the case of African American's their great grandparents were slaves. They have a very different starting point and cultural influence than say I do, as my great-grandparents came to this country to get away from oppression from the Irish potato famine. We are talking about 3 generations ago they lived in a culture where everything from food to clothing was provided, and there was absolute no self-determination as you were basically property.

I think it is totally unfair to expect people to learn the kind of skill sets that it takes to thrive in a capitalistic society which is all about self-determination, when you have no immediate culture history to rely on to teach you these things. Not to mention that until 50 years ago most of society was pushing against the idea. They couldn't even drink from the same water fountain. This is where we have failed as a country. This is where progressivism and liberalism has failed. There should be a concentrated effort to teach capitalism and self-determination. How to save money, how to produce wealth. A lot of the failure is because progressivism has put it's faith at the altar of Communism first, and now hard socialism, which has been a catastrophic failure for poor people. All one needs to do is look at Venezuela for example. As long as people who want to help the poor continue to push the idea of giving people stuff, nothing will change and the poor's conditions will just get worse.

The other failure and shame really, is that people on the right, a lot of them Christians, of whom I am one, Christians who have a mandate from God to help the poor, resent the poor. No one fights as hard on the right (at least who is in the public eye) as the people on the left do for poor people. The ideas of education, saving, long term capitalistic planning, long term thinking, which are ideas that the right champions, are ideas that have been proven to lift people out of poverty over and over. If the right would mandate consistent teaching of these things and proselytize them as hard as the left does progressivism the long term generational poverty that perpetuates in this country would be over in a generation or two.

Last edited by sokillme; 02-15-2017 at 11:16 AM.
sokillme is online now  
post #29 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 11:30 AM
Member
 
Yeswecan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,268
Re: White Pins For White Privilege

Quote:
Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
I'm not surprised. The "White" in the saying basically assures that you are going to be defensive about it. I look at it like this no matter what your skin color, if you have a stable family and a good environment to grow up in you have a better chance in life. You are also much better prepared and have more resources to recover from catastrophic events, such as losing a job or being sick. Now you are going to say, well that's not my problem. But it is because you pay taxes, and for the most part, your taxes don't solve these issues. In many cases, they perpetuate them. Now you are going to say well get rid of all the taxes. Then you are going to need to pay for security forces or prisons to hold the people who come after you who are in these situations. Society is not unconnected. Besides all that being a decent honorable human being means caring for your fellow man.

True, stable home and good environment provide better chances....only if one utilizes what is provided. Many who have known had these but simply did nothing in life. The individual must make themselves accountable to utilizing what is provided to better their chances in life. How does this make me say this is not my problem because I pay taxes? Broken homes and unstable environment? Taxes were never meant to support the unfortunate, broken homes and unstable enviroments. Taxes were not instituted to solve these issues(I'm guessing you talking unstable homes as the issue? I'm not sure.)

Quote:
It also must be remembered that in the case of African American's their great grandparents were slaves. They have a very different starting point and cultural influence than say I do, as my great-grandparents came to this country to get away from oppression from the Irish potato famine. We are talking about 3 generations ago they lived in a culture where everything from food to clothing was provided, and there was absolute no self-determination as you were basically property.
And how does this influence 3 generations removed affect the youth of today? How does it affect those that immigrated to the US after slavery?

I think it is totally unfair to expect people to learn the kind of skill sets that it takes to thrive in a capitalistic society which is all about self-determination, when you have no immediate culture history to rely on to teach you these things. Go to school. Not to mention that until 50 years ago most of society was pushing against the idea. They couldn't even drink from the same water fountain. This is where we have failed as a country. This is where progressivism and liberalism has failed. There should be a concentrated effort to teach capitalism and self-determination. Agreed How to save money, how to produce wealth. A lot of the failure is because progressivism has put it's faith at the altar of Communism first, and now hard socialism, which has been a catastrophic failure for poor people. All one needs to do is look at Venezuela for example. As long as people who want to help the poor continue to push the idea of giving people stuff, nothing will change and the poor's conditions will just get worse. 100% agreed.

The other failure and shame really, is that people on the right, a lot of them Christians, of whom I am one, Christians who have a mandate from God to help the poor, resent the poor. No one fights as hard on the right (at least who is in the public eye) as the people on the left do for poor people. The ideas of education, saving, long term capitalistic planning, long term thinking, which are ideas that the right champions, are ideas that have been proven to lift people out of poverty over and over. If the right would mandate consistent teaching of these things and proselytize them as hard as the left does progressivism the long term generational poverty that perpetuates in this country would be over in a generation or two. Very interesting take on things. It would be great to see a flip of this and watch the outcome.

“You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.”
― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road
Yeswecan is offline  
post #30 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 12:07 PM
Member
 
Anon Pink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,064
Re: White Pins For White Privilege

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatsuhiko View Post
It's the self-contradiction here that is entertaining. The premise that the whites are more successful than other races, therefore other races are kept down. Sure, let's assume this is true for a moment (although I would disagree with respect to Asian-Americans). So that's the "rule" according to the left. But when that "rule" is broken by an oppressed minority who succeeds in spite of the odds against him/her, we're supposed to pretend that there was nothing unusual about it. If we do see that success as an exception, we're rac
Quote:
showing an example of white privilege
ist according to Anon Pink's list of forbidden
Quote:
examples of white privilege
racist behaviors. But we're simultaneously expected to acknowledge that the deck was stacked against them. Thinking that the deck is fair is racist; thinking that the deck is stacked (and hard to overcome) is racist. Cognitive dissonance.
Isn't it funny how one single word changes the entire meaning?

Now that I've corrected your use of the word "racist" I will try to explain why extolling the success of a person of color as a credit to their race is an example of white privilege. But first I'd like to check that we both agree that "examples of white privilege" is not synonymous with "racism." Similar to inserting "table" for "chocolate cake" related but not the same.

Extolling the success of a person color as a fine example to their race indicates that the speaker (white person) belongs to a race that is typically associated with success while the black person does not. It would be a privilege to belong to a race that is historically associated with success, would it not? My mother used to sew most of my clothing when I was in middle and HS and I was a very well dressed young woman as a result. I was privileged to have a mother with excellent design and sewing skills. I had some friends whose parents were on the poor side, for our socio-economic bracket and I knew I was privileged to have a mother who made me beautiful clothing that everyone envied.

Quote:
Without going full Godwin, this policy isn't too different from Jews being made to wear a Star of David. While there's no rule forcing these white kids to wear a symbol, we all know that they'll be given dirty looks or otherwise harassed by their peers for not falling in line. The purpose of this exercise is to expose the non-believers. This is just the left being the left, once again.
Culture happens when people are expected to demonstrate the same values as their peers. Culture changes when values change and enough people take on the new values.

I will be happy to discuss this more but only if you agree to stop assuming progressives are underhanded crazies. Just like you don't like being called an angry white man...right?

"Some women are blessed with multi-orgasmic ability for a reason and I'm damn sure not going to waste a blessing" ~FrenchFry


"Vaginas are tricky creatures." ~Lucy999
Anon Pink is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
a message for 'white' america mrpavlovich Politics and Religion 52 11-11-2016 09:15 AM
Hug a Progressive Straight White Guy Day Herschel The Social Spot 2 07-28-2016 11:52 AM
when you are on the receiving end of a white lie... Begin again General Relationship Discussion 15 07-16-2016 10:53 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome