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post #46 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 02:26 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
I think the real question is why we talk about white privelage rather than the oppression of other groups. What the divisive language?
Exactly. But talking white privilege fuels an agenda. It draws people in(particularly for votes one Hillary and Chelsa Clinton). It looks to guilt those that can not change the past nor the color of their skin. But it is simply written off that white should just acknowledge it and all will be well. Et al Anon Pink:
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You're not supposed to feel guilty about white privilege. You just need to acknowledge the truth of it.
So it is acknowledged. Now what?


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― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

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post #47 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 02:45 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

I get both sides of this .... those who look at things as a 'privilege' vs those who look at it as 'discrimination'. Two sides of the same coin.

privilege - a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.

The that are usually described as "white privilege" are not privilege at all. They are things that are the right of every citizen, to not be harassed by the cops, to not be shot for no reason, etc.

It is discrimination that we need to fight.
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post #48 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 03:09 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

My room mate in college is black. We spent a better part of 5 years together attending college, graduating and continued on sharing a house until we both could purchase our own. In those years just outside Washington DC we both experienced racial issues. Nothing major. Just minor things we noticed. We both experienced some form of privilege. Our experiences(1980's) we could have the best of both worlds and the worst. If we went to a mostly white bar and the people inside had seen he was with me, he was accepted and joining in was not an issue. If we went to a predominately black bar, I would get the look but once that it was seen I was with my black friend I was accepted. Us knowing this, we could do just about anything without recourse. Well, there was bars that neither one of would go in no matter who was in there.

Anyway, the preconceived notion that a person is bad or a certain way because of the color of their skin has been so engrained that I'm not sure if we as a society will every get around it. Specifically since divisive words and catch phrases are continually used.

Acknowledging white privilege does exactly what?

“You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.”
― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road
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post #49 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 03:15 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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My room mate in college is black. We spent a better part of 5 years together attending college, graduating and continued on sharing a house until we both could purchase our own. In those years just outside Washington DC we both experienced racial issues. Nothing major. Just minor things we noticed. We both experienced some form of privilege. Our experiences(1980's) we could have the best of both worlds and the worst. If we went to a mostly white bar and the people inside had seen he was with me, he was accepted and joining in was not an issue. If we went to a predominately black bar, I would get the look but once that it was seen I was with my black friend I was accepted. Us knowing this, we could do just about anything without recourse. Well, there was bars that neither one of would go in no matter who was in there.

Anyway, the preconceived notion that a person is bad or a certain way because of the color of their skin has been so engrained that I'm not sure if we as a society will every get around it. Specifically since divisive words and catch phrases are continually used.

Acknowledging white privilege does exactly what?
Go to any country in the world and you will find discrimination against some groups based on race. It's in our DNA to form what are basically tribes.

We are not huge societies that have people from every race, every ethnic group, every culture. We need to strive for equality under the law and socially.

While recognizing that something like 'white privilege' exits, it that what is doing on is going beyond trying to educate people. I think that the point is to humiliate and shame people who are perceived to the "white". That accomplishes little except to divide.
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post #50 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 03:29 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Go to any country in the world and you will find discrimination against some groups based on race. It's in our DNA to form what are basically tribes.

We are not huge societies that have people from every race, every ethnic group, every culture. We need to strive for equality under the law and socially.

While recognizing that something like 'white privilege' exits, it that what is doing on is going beyond trying to educate people. I think that the point is to humiliate and shame people who are perceived to the "white". That accomplishes little except to divide.
Of course it is to humiliate and shame/guilt. Apparently that is ok to some. But, is it right to shame those that can not change the color of their skin, circumstances or what happened in the past that was not their doing or in their control? Of course not and it divides as you state.

“You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.”
― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road
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post #51 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 04:00 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

I will wear the White puzzle pin when the university basketball team starts wearing the Tall Privilege pins.
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post #52 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 04:27 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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I will wear the White puzzle pin when the university basketball team starts wearing the Tall Privilege pins.
Dude, you know that's a thing right? Give it a couple of years, they'll have the pins out...

Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
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For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
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post #53 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 04:37 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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I gently refer you to Missouri Executive Order 44 which was not removed for over 137 years.
While that was interesting to learn about I'm unsure what the Missouri executive order 44 [the order to rid the state of mormons through extermination or pressure to leave] has to do with this topic.

You see, unlike black people, the Mormons had a choice in their faith. They had a choice in taking many wives or not, a choice to believe Joseph Smith was a prophet who talked to God and received commands to take many wives, and not always tell those wives of the other wives nor differentiate between an eligible woman to marry and a married woman to also marry if her husband traveled frequently enough...and make many offspring to raise them up as Mormons. They could walk into a store and by looks alone, they could not be identified as Mormon.

Whereas black folk could not pretend they weren't black and didn't have a choice in being black.

Trying to rid a community of people who behaved in ways that were socially unacceptable could be effective in getting them to behave in acceptable ways.

Trying to oppress black people because their black will accomplish.....? What was the reason again? Oh yes, they were black and had no soul and counted as 2/5 of a human and were slaves anyway.

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post #54 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 04:47 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Examples of white privilege:

Never being pulled over for driving a car in a white neighborhood.
Never being asked if I would deliver something to the nearest soup kitchen because I'm black and therefore know where all the free sh!t is being handed out.
Never having been the subject of "nigger jokes."
Never seeing a popular movie, or popular novel, or popular TV show that has not one single white person in it.
Never having to buy Nude pantyhose only to find nude is only meant for dark skinned women because on me Nude looks brown.
Never having to creat my own make up in order to find shades that match my skin tone.
Never having someone grab their purse tighter because I sat near them.
Being the first in my lineage to ever see white people as successful.
Never being seen as the exception to the rule when I am successful.
Never having to be extra careful about being angry.
Never having witnessed a white man get shot by the police because he was running away...with his hands up...
Never having to prove I have a right to be walking around in the neighborhood where I live.

as you go through this list and defend against it by being able to name someone who knows a guy who is white and he/she also had that happen, this list is a preponderance. It is an overwhelming state of normal for people of color that white people take for granted.

Can any white person name a time when their race was intentionally denied rights? Do you all realize this country is STILL trying to suppress the black vote?

White privilege is alive and well.

Proceed with denials...
Sure, there are some benefits to being white.

There are also benefits to being attractive.

There are benefits to being athletically talented.

There are benefits to being smart.

Do we make these people wear buttons to "acknowledge their privilege?

Should we make the attractive wear masks? The athletically gifted where ankle weights? The smart listen to the Carpenters while taking tests?

What exactly are we trying to achieve by having white's acknowledge their privilege? Especially those that are unattractive, uncoordinated and unintelligent?
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post #55 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 05:00 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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I think the recent election is the result of this and other similar social pressures. If I'm accused of having "privilege" and called a racist because I don't support all of the methods progressives want to use to eliminate oppression, then there is a strong tendency to say "screw it, I'm voting for the evil white guy to teach you all a lesson".
I agree, quite a bit of Trump's support came from people that were just fed up with political correctness.

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post #56 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 05:04 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Guilt is useful if it can change behavior. Its not useful if there is no behavior to change.

I cannot change my being white. I'm not aware of anything that I am doing that oppresses people, rather the reverse in fact, I'm involved in some programs at work that are targeted at providing opportunities to people who otherwise would have fewer opportunities.

I can't change the fact that I get certain advantages from being white. My whiteness does not give me some special power over society. I can only change how I behave to reduce the oppression of others.
Exactly. We cannot change the fact that we are white, nor the history of this country. We can only change how we believe and how we behave.

White privilege is not really about guilt though. I personally am not guilty of biased behavior. Neither are you, neither are MOST people. But the fact remains having been born white, we received some privileges black people didnt. While we are not personally responsible for that, refusing to acknowledge it is damned insulting!



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Imagine I was trying to get paternity leave rights for men in a place where they already existed for women. Wouldn't it be far better to say that men should have the same rights as women with respect to leave, rather than "women need to accept that they get *special treatment* for leave". The goal is to give everyone reasonable treatment, not take it away from those that have it.
I see the point you're making here. But using family leave doesn't actually fit the context of white privileged because needing family leave is temporary, which being white or being black lasts a lifetime.

And anyone who says women got a special privilege for family leave can kiss my ass!



Quote:
These conversations get confusing because the opposition to "privilege" is composed of at least 3 groups:

One group does not believe that there is any remaining bias in society. The will reject privilege or oppression arguments out of hand.

Another group believes that there is bias and generally would like to fix it. They are much more likely to respond positively to request to help stop oppression than accusations of "privilege".

A 3rd group is "white", and so has been labeled as "privileged", but in fact is not. They are suffering from a variety of oppression not based on race, but on some other issue. They may be very sympathetic to the oppression of others, but are not going to react well to being called "privileged".


Words matter. Saying person A is privileged, is different from saying person B is oppressed, even though both imply that A is in a better situation than B. The difference is which situation is implied to be wrong.
This is not about white privilege being a wrong behavior or white privilege happening because individually we are biased.

It is the collective experience of being the dominant race with an unjustified representation in leadership roles and as a result there remains a privilege of being white that black people do not experience.

I was in my late 30's the first time I saw a baby doll that was black, a Barbie that was black, make up for black skin tones, hair care products for the black womans hair. Characters in children's books that were racially ambiguous or black. Black women my age didn't have black baby dolls, they were white; the dolls didn't look like the child playing with it. Every single book you read growing up has zero black people represented or there is the token. Every single TV show ...same.

The OB for my first baby was a black man. My parents nearly sh!t a brick and I never heard them say anything racist. They just couldn't believe they had black doctors taking care of white women. Unheard of! This was mid 1980's.

"Some women are blessed with multi-orgasmic ability for a reason and I'm damn sure not going to waste a blessing" ~FrenchFry


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post #57 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 05:09 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Sure, there are some benefits to being white.

There are also benefits to being attractive.

There are benefits to being athletically talented.

There are benefits to being smart.

Do we make these people wear buttons to "acknowledge their privilege?

Should we make the attractive wear masks? The athletically gifted where ankle weights? The smart listen to the Carpenters while taking tests?

What exactly are we trying to achieve by having white's acknowledge their privilege? Especially those that are unattractive, uncoordinated and unintelligent?
If you're wondering what Anon's society would look like, you have only to read Vonnegut's "Harrison Bergeron"

Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
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post #58 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 05:13 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Sure, there are some benefits to being white.

There are also benefits to being attractive.

There are benefits to being athletically talented.

There are benefits to being smart.

Do we make these people wear buttons to "acknowledge their privilege?

Should we make the attractive wear masks? The athletically gifted where ankle weights? The smart listen to the Carpenters while taking tests?

What exactly are we trying to achieve by having white's acknowledge their privilege? Especially those that are unattractive, uncoordinated and unintelligent?

Skills are learned, attractiveness can be improved upon, intelligence can also be improved upon. However, from birth to death being white will not change, being black will not change.

What we are trying to achieve is the first step in coming together as a nation. Acknowledging white privilege is not going to hurt anyone. It won't shame anyone. It won't cost anyone. It would help. So why is acknowledging white privilege so terrible?

"Some women are blessed with multi-orgasmic ability for a reason and I'm damn sure not going to waste a blessing" ~FrenchFry


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post #59 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 05:19 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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I agree, quite a bit of Trump's support came from people that were just fed up with political correctness.
Just like all you guys here in this thread who are not pleased with the concept of white privilege, some of you are hostile, some of you are angry, some of you don't understand but most of you won't listen because you feel like you're being attacked because you're white? I get it. I really do. I had a difficult time understanding this without feeling attacked too. I felt hurt that anyone could possibly think I would ever have anything to do with racist behavior! But then I shut the hell up and listened. I stopped taking their (black people) anger personally and I listened.

You're not asked to apologize.
You're not being held personally responsible.
You're being asked to acknowledge that you've had privileges growing up white.
That's it. Simple and easy. And yet you fight it. Why?

"Some women are blessed with multi-orgasmic ability for a reason and I'm damn sure not going to waste a blessing" ~FrenchFry


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post #60 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 05:40 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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You're being asked to acknowledge that you've had privileges growing up white.
That's it. Simple and easy. And yet you fight it. Why?
I'm not fighting it.

I just posted the following:

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Originally Posted by Buddy400 View Post
Sure, there are some benefits to being white.
So, what exactly is it that you want?
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