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post #61 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 05:44 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

OK so since some Mormons oppressed some women then it is OK to kill any Mormon. This is the same argument we have had all day. Because Some white people oppressed some African Americans it is OK to guilt all white people. If fact it is preferred.
So what did the Jews do?


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post #62 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 06:49 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

The thing is, we ARE being attacked. We are being BLAMED for privilege, people try to make us feel guilty for things that other people who look like us did.

If it was not an attack it would be worded in terms of oppression, not privilege.

There is lip service to "not asked to apologize", "not responsible", etc but that is only lip service. The intent is to attack us for things we did not do.

Accusations of privilege are divisive - because while on average white have more privileges, there is great variation, and other groups have privilege in the US as well. South Asians do very well in some high tech regions of the US - are they now "white"? Jews have privilege now, but sure didn't 80 years ago. Japanese tend to be privileged. Are Saudi Arabians white? Or is what we really are saying is "privilege privilege".

If I post "black people have to accept that too many of them are criminals" - that would sound offensive because it IS offensive, it is blaming an entire group for something that a minority does. If I were worried about crime, I would ask "what can we do to reduce crime?".

I believe that he people pushing the "privilege" argument are doing so out of hatred. That hatred may be legitimately based on long experience and I understand it, but the goal is not to solve the problem but to try to get revenge.

This makes me so irate because I think this has backfired horribly in the recent election. I think progressive goals, which I largely support, have been set back a decade or two, and maybe much more, by people who acted on their anger, rather than in the interests of the people that want to protect.

Just look at this thread. There are many people here who fully support equal opportunities, but who feel attacked and driven away by the choice of language. Do that to 1% of the population and the world changes - as it just did.

So, if someone wants me to support their reasonable cause, they need only ask.




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Originally Posted by Anon Pink View Post
Just like all you guys here in this thread who are not pleased with the concept of white privilege, some of you are hostile, some of you are angry, some of you don't understand but most of you won't listen because you feel like you're being attacked because you're white? I get it. I really do. I had a difficult time understanding this without feeling attacked too. I felt hurt that anyone could possibly think I would ever have anything to do with racist behavior! But then I shut the hell up and listened. I stopped taking their (black people) anger personally and I listened.

You're not asked to apologize.
You're not being held personally responsible.
You're being asked to acknowledge that you've had privileges growing up white.
That's it. Simple and easy. And yet you fight it. Why?
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post #63 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 07:33 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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OK so since some Mormons oppressed some women then it is OK to kill any Mormon. This is the same argument we have had all day. Because Some white people oppressed some African Americans it is OK to guilt all white people. If fact it is preferred.
So what did the Jews do?

Us Jews are somehow responsible for every problem everyone in the world has.

Or so I hear.

As I've heard it put: Jews.....humanity's scapegoat for 5000 years and counting.



I agree with Ele.....it's less about white privilege than injustice toward others. The answer is to battle discrimination and injustice where it exists.

The problem is that often it's hard to get a consensus on where there's actual injustice and where it's poor decision making. Sometimes there's a combination.
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post #64 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 08:23 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Us Jews are somehow responsible for every problem everyone in the world has.

Or so I hear.

As I've heard it put: Jews.....humanity's scapegoat for 5000 years and counting.



I agree with Ele.....it's less about white privilege than injustice toward others. The answer is to battle discrimination and injustice where it exists.

The problem is that often it's hard to get a consensus on where there's actual injustice and where it's poor decision making. Sometimes there's a combination.
I've been thinking about this topic a lot today. It's a tough one.

One of the things that come to mind is that the idea of 'white privilege' seems to assume that all "white" people have the same historical background.

As you point out, all "white" people do not. Nor were all 'white' people treated the same when they immigrated to the USA. Many were fleeing horrible situations in their home country, came here and hit a wall of discrimination and hardships..
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post #65 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 08:34 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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I've been thinking about this topic a lot today. It's a tough one.

One of the things that come to mind is that the idea of 'white privilege' seems to assume that all "white" people have the same historical background.

As you point out, all "white" people do not. Nor were all 'white' people treated the same when they immigrated to the USA. Many were fleeing horrible situations in their home country, came here and hit a wall of discrimination and hardships..

For sure. In discussions with various black friends over the years I've said that not only have my people never had a slave or discriminated against anyone, most of us were fleeing Hitler and communism.

The phrase "white people" is very broad and encompasses many different cultures and backgrounds. More than one black person has responded that they hadn't considered that.

I love these discussions because it's a great opportunity to hear another perspective and learn from it.
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post #66 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 08:48 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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I was in my late 30's the first time I saw a baby doll that was black, a Barbie that was black, make up for black skin tones, hair care products for the black womans hair. Characters in children's books that were racially ambiguous or black. Black women my age didn't have black baby dolls, they were white; the dolls didn't look like the child playing with it. Every single book you read growing up has zero black people represented or there is the token. Every single TV show ...same.

The OB for my first baby was a black man. My parents nearly sh!t a brick and I never heard them say anything racist. They just couldn't believe they had black doctors taking care of white women. Unheard of! This was mid 1980's.
May I ask, are you prone to exaggerating or perhaps living on another planet?

I am a white female and (I believe) am older than you (60). My sisters had white and black baby dolls and Barbies as little girls, I also remember a hispanic doll and an asian doll. In fact, this reflected my real life friends and classmates (throughout K-12 and university). In 1956, the doctor who delivered me was a non-white; my first dentist visit at age 3 was with a non-white dentist. In my entire life I have never lived in an “all white” neighborhood and, I am not talking about having a “token” family or person of color in the area. I experienced this in the US, living in many states on the east and west coasts and in between. I have lived in both rural and urban environments.

Where are these isolated enclaves you speak of, you know the ones where you are shocked when you see a person of color? Do you need a secret password to get inside them? How did I avoid them?
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post #67 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 11:28 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Can any white person name a time when their race was intentionally denied rights? Do you all realize this country is STILL trying to suppress the black vote?
Yes, when there is a quota to prevent white students from being accepted at a college when they would have been accepted if they weren't white.

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post #68 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 11:30 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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It's the self-contradiction here that is entertaining. The premise that the whites are more successful than other races, therefore other races are kept down. Sure, let's assume this is true for a moment (although I would disagree with respect to Asian-Americans). So that's the "rule" according to the left. But when that "rule" is broken by an oppressed minority who succeeds in spite of the odds against him/her, we're supposed to pretend that there was nothing unusual about it. If we do see that success as an exception, we're racist according to Anon Pink's list of forbidden racist behaviors. But we're simultaneously expected to acknowledge that the deck was stacked against them. Thinking that the deck is fair is racist; thinking that the deck is stacked (and hard to overcome) is racist. Cognitive dissonance.

Without going full Godwin, this policy isn't too different from Jews being made to wear a Star of David. While there's no rule forcing these white kids to wear a symbol, we all know that they'll be given dirty looks or otherwise harassed by their peers for not falling in line. The purpose of this exercise is to expose the non-believers. This is just the left being the left, once again.
Everything a white (or an Asian) says is racist. Please try to keep up!
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post #69 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 11:37 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Sure, there are some benefits to being white.

There are also benefits to being attractive.

There are benefits to being athletically talented.

There are benefits to being smart.

Do we make these people wear buttons to "acknowledge their privilege?

Should we make the attractive wear masks? The athletically gifted where ankle weights? The smart listen to the Carpenters while taking tests?

What exactly are we trying to achieve by having white's acknowledge their privilege? Especially those that are unattractive, uncoordinated and unintelligent?
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post #70 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 11:39 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Originally Posted by Mr. Nail View Post
OK so since some Mormons oppressed some women then it is OK to kill any Mormon. This is the same argument we have had all day. Because Some white people oppressed some African Americans it is OK to guilt all white people. If fact it is preferred.
So what did the Jews do?
They succeeded in spite of massive discrimination against them.

Therefore they deserve no special advantages, but instead are subjected to quotas, just like Asians (and for the same reasons).


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post #71 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 11:45 PM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

All I know is that Oprah Winfrey is a billionaire, even with two strikes against her (black and female). I feel oppressed that I haven't achieved her level of success. Certainly it can't because of lack of aptitude or hard work on my part. Saying so would be to discriminate against me.

The irony is that Oprah is a billionaire because millions of white people have deep respect and admiration for her. So if you're going to accuse the US of pervasive racism, you've got a pretty steep hill to climb.
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post #72 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 12:00 AM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Where are these isolated enclaves you speak of, you know the ones where you are shocked when you see a person of color? Do you need a secret password to get inside them? How did I avoid them?
I grew up in a very small population of people who are isolated from any decent sized urban area. I lived in 3 different small towns, all about 20 miles or so from each other. I went from K-12 in these three small towns. One had a population of 2000, one 15,000, and one 350 (yes, 350). The nearest big city was about 80 miles away. That's where we had to go to get things from department stores, see new release movies, etc. So while I did go to this city a few times a year and did see people of other races....this was nothing compared to the life I lived every day.

There was not one black person living in ANY of these 3 towns. Not ONE. There were some hispanic people, mostly migrant workers. There were some native Americans. That's it. If there were any people of Asian decent, I do not recall even ONE in any of my schools or seeing one in the small towns I lived in.

The people who lived in theses cities enjoyed their isolation from other races and talked about it openly. They did not have any actual individuals who were black to act racist toward or to pull any hate crimes toward....but they still spoke openly about how they WOULD do this if they DID have people of color in the small towns.

The hispanic and native Americans who lived there were treated like lower class citizens and were basically segregated in most ways. The white shop owners would not hire them, the kids in school taunted them, people would make straight up racist comments to their faces. But I would occasionally hear something like "at least we only have injuns and spics, no blacks".

By the grace of God, my mother was not raised in these towns, she was raised in the bigger city 80 miles away. She has always been an egalitarian, and racial issues were definitely something she tried to raise awareness about where ever she could. She was a school teacher, on the city council, and essentially an activist in her own right.

Though she did not ever successfully get a 5th generation racist (like most everyone in these towns were) to "see the light", she did in her own small way make an impact.

For one thing, she raised my brother and I to understand that the ignorance and hate these racist towns folk were showing was NOT ok and it was NOT any kind of a "truth". She explained to us very well how hate for other races works and that it would never ever be allowed in our home in any way. This has affected me for my whole life. Particularly when young, because if it had not been for my mother, I am positive I would have chimed along with the other WHITE kids in my school and town and taunted the kids of color and made the same types of remarks about how "at least they aren't black". How would I have not turned out that way if my parents had been just like them, like it was for all those other white kids?

One time a black entertainer (a singer and puppetier) came to our grade school to give a performance at an assembly. As a teacher, she was also part of the committee who arranged for this entertainer to come perform for us. The whole school was chattering because - literally - no black person had EVER come to our school before. Mostly people were good with it because he was a "performer". It is ok for them to entertain us, you know. Right?

Then after his performance, my mom knew the guy was in town over night at a hotel, so she invited him to our house for dinner.

This literally caused a scandal.

To have a black man come to our home, invited by my mother (who was young and gorgeous at the time, and obviously, white) made those tongues clack all over town. People accused her of wanting to have sex with him. (sigh) She was married to my father at the time, who was also home for dinner when the guy came over. He was very fun, gracious, and obviously not used to these small towns where NO black people lived. We had a great dinner, I felt very blessed because this awesome talented man came to our home (he was very kind to my brother and I and showed us his puppets up close).

The town talked and talked. My mom never responded to any of them. She would not validate their bullcrap. She was simply being herself, she genuinely wanted to invite him over. (Our home was always filled with people she would invite over, usually artists, musicians, dancers, writers). She gave not one thought to his race nor to the "consequences" of all those clacking tongues. She dropped some friends after that, though. She saw their true colors after word got back to her what they had been saying.

The towns I am speaking of are in the pacific northwest. Its not like I grew up in Kentucky. I graduated HS in 1985. The town I graduated from still has ZERO black residents or students today and the population is also the same.

The same families who always lived there still live there. I do not have any friends from there, because they are all still the same small minded racists I moved away from as soon as I could. My mother moved away too, as soon as I did. I will never go back other than to visit, and even when I do that, all I can do is look around at the amazing amount of pure white nastiness.

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post #73 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 12:11 AM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
The thing is, we ARE being attacked. We are being BLAMED for privilege, people try to make us feel guilty for things that other people who look like us did.

If it was not an attack it would be worded in terms of oppression, not privilege.

There is lip service to "not asked to apologize", "not responsible", etc but that is only lip service. The intent is to attack us for things we did not do.

No you are not being attacked!!!! I have used neither violence nor strong citisism. No one is being attacked.

Why do you feel like you're being attacked? Why does this issue make white people feel attacked?




Quote:
Accusations of privilege are divisive - because while on average white have more privileges, there is great variation, and other groups have privilege in the US as well. South Asians do very well in some high tech regions of the US - are they now "white"? Jews have privilege now, but sure didn't 80 years ago. Japanese tend to be privileged. Are Saudi Arabians white? Or is what we really are saying is "privilege privilege".

If I post "black people have to accept that too many of them are criminals" - that would sound offensive because it IS offensive, it is blaming an entire group for something that a minority does. If I were worried about crime, I would ask "what can we do to reduce crime?".

I believe that he people pushing the "privilege" argument are doing so out of hatred. That hatred may be legitimately based on long experience and I understand it, but the goal is not to solve the problem but to try to get revenge.
With the exception of WWII, the Japanese were never oppressed, other than the newest wave of immigrant dislike. Jews have not had to suffer under US laws that disallowed them to vote, to own property, to rent housing, the be educated...etc. you keep trying to point to other ethnicity groups and by doing so you are confusing white privileged with minority bigotry. They are not the same. Again, chocolate cake...table. Related but not the same.

Quote:

Just look at this thread. There are many people here who fully support equal opportunities, but who feel attacked and driven away by the choice of language. Do that to 1% of the population and the world changes - as it just did.

So, if someone wants me to support their reasonable cause, they need only ask.
Excuse me? I am one of two supporting the facts of white privilege, everyone else denies it. Who has been run off this thread?

If it's unity you want, what is the harm in acknowledging white privilege?

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post #74 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 12:18 AM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Originally Posted by Red Sonja View Post
May I ask, are you prone to exaggerating or perhaps living on another planet?
Do you expect an answer to this?


Quote:
I am a white female and (I believe) am older than you (60). My sisters had white and black baby dolls and Barbies as little girls, I also remember a hispanic doll and an asian doll. In fact, this reflected my real life friends and classmates (throughout K-12 and university). In 1956, the doctor who delivered me was a non-white; my first dentist visit at age 3 was with a non-white dentist. In my entire life I have never lived in an “all white” neighborhood and, I am not talking about having a “token” family or person of color in the area. I experienced this in the US, living in many states on the east and west coasts and in between. I have lived in both rural and urban environments.

Where are these isolated enclaves you speak of, you know the ones where you are shocked when you see a person of color? Do you need a secret password to get inside them? How did I avoid them?
Where I grew up was not isolated but suburbia. I'm sorry that my experience doesn't match yours. But isn't it revealing that because our experiences don't match, your first words to me were a dismissive insult? Do you to this to everyone who confesses to an experience you didn't share? Could this denial be a huge part of the problem between the races?

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post #75 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 12:26 AM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Originally Posted by Mr. Nail View Post
OK so since some Mormons oppressed some women then it is OK to kill any Mormon. This is the same argument we have had all day. Because Some white people oppressed some African Americans it is OK to guilt all white people. If fact it is preferred.
So what did the Jews do?
No, it doesn't make it okay to kill a Mormon and be reminded I never even suggested that, so let try to stay on point here?

Some white people? Some black people?

If you were able to find the obscure Missouri executive order 44 I'm fairly certain you don't need me to educated you on racism in America, Dredd Scott, Jim Crow, and the countless Emmitt Till's.

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