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post #91 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 07:58 AM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Exactly.
White privilege is not really about guilt though.
Big BS on that. It is to shame and guilt. If it is not then for what reason? To make us all aware? We sing kumbaya now?


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post #92 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 08:01 AM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

Perhaps to make us understand that privilege is prevalent regardless of source. Try to get an IT job if the hiring manager is ethnic and you're competing with one of his fellow ethnics....
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post #93 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 08:03 AM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Skills are learned, attractiveness can be improved upon, intelligence can also be improved upon. However, from birth to death being white will not change, being black will not change.

What we are trying to achieve is the first step in coming together as a nation. Acknowledging white privilege is not going to hurt anyone. It won't shame anyone. It won't cost anyone. It would help. So why is acknowledging white privilege so terrible?
Because it is shaming/guilt white people. See it for what it is. White people who at this time in age did not institute the racism of the past. Paying for the sins of their fathers as it were. This is how it is peddled. As far as not costing...to me this is a precursor to more talks of reparations.

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post #94 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 08:04 AM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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If it's unity you want, what is the harm in acknowledging white privilege?
I'm thinking it's either because it actually does make people feel bad to think that they've been given unfair advantage all throughout their lives or because they feel left out, and want to be sure everyone knows just how hard their lives have been too.

The way I see it is that, yes, everyone's life is hard, but some are much harder than others. And while some of this is because of the individual issues or problems, other aspects are systemic. And it is for the systemic ones that acknowledging privilege is useful -- simply because it raises awareness and maybe (hopefully!) helps people to understand each other a little better.
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post #95 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 08:07 AM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Just like all you guys here in this thread who are not pleased with the concept of white privilege, some of you are hostile, some of you are angry, some of you don't understand but most of you won't listen because you feel like you're being attacked because you're white? I get it. I really do. I had a difficult time understanding this without feeling attacked too. I felt hurt that anyone could possibly think I would ever have anything to do with racist behavior! But then I shut the hell up and listened. I stopped taking their (black people) anger personally and I listened.

You're not asked to apologize.
You're not being held personally responsible.
You're being asked to acknowledge that you've had privileges growing up white.
That's it. Simple and easy. And yet you fight it. Why?
Who the heck would be pleased when being guilted for something they did not cause or create? That is were your thinking is grossly flawed and denying the idea is about guilt. You are having a difficult time understanding being guilted for a problem none of us created. Your examples are from the past and mostly racially motivated activity. IE, getting stopped in a white neighborhood. But for you, we get to share in it so we should acknowledge and grovel. Are whites the only race enjoying privileges? No. All do in some form or another. Yet, let just guilt the white folks. This is really having echos of Obama's "you did not build that." lousy speech.

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You're not asked to apologize.
You're not being held personally responsible.
You're being asked to acknowledge that you've had privileges growing up white.
That's it. Simple and easy. And yet you fight it. Why?
In a round about way whites are being asked to apologize. Second, yes, whites are being held personally responsible. Sure, white are being asked to acknowledge but WHY are they being asked? Top what end????? I have asked you this in this thread a few times. What does it accomplish?

“You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.”
― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

Last edited by Yeswecan; 02-16-2017 at 08:15 AM.
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post #96 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 08:08 AM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Big BS on that. It is to shame and guilt. If it is not then for what reason? To make us all aware? We sing kumbaya now?
Yes, exactly. Acknowledging white privilege is very much about raising awareness.

Awareness of exactly what it is that causes systemic differences in how different types of people are treated.
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post #97 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 08:20 AM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Because it is shaming/guilt white people. See it for what it is. White people who at this time in age did not institute the racism of the past. Paying for the sins of their fathers as it were. This is how it is peddled. As far as not costing...to me this is a precursor to more talks of reparations.
Hardly.

My older girl looks as ethnic as they come, while the younger has the southern belle look. Guess which girl was teachers favorite and which was not? Guess for which I had to threaten the school with a lawsuit because of stupid teacher remarks?
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post #98 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 08:27 AM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

I recant. Even if Tall privilege is acknowledged, I refuse to accept white privilege as an important issue. I grew up white, the son of a builder the grandson of a iron worker and a ranch hand. I've seen privilege from the bottom up. I've seen it from the top down, I inherited the family business (small). From my perspective no good will come of this movement. The movement is as divisive as the yellow star of David from WWII. It is not a step towards unity. It is misguided. If it were as all pervasive and influential as the claims here state, there would not be an influential or wealthy Jewish person in the United States and Ben Carson would have never graduated High School.
I see it as a largely Urban problem. The answer proposed for most urban problems (get all of the rural people to move to the city) is equally misguided.
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post #99 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 08:30 AM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Hardly.

My older girl looks as ethnic as they come, while the younger has the southern belle look. Guess which girl was teachers favorite and which was not? Guess for which I had to threaten the school with a lawsuit because of stupid teacher remarks?
Sir, my sister is adopted Korean. She suffered the nonsense of others because of her look, etc. Many stupid remarks. These, IMO, are racial in nature. Further, I have been ignored by blacks at business' and other establishments. It goes both ways.

“You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.”
― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road
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post #100 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 08:32 AM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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The US is an extremely large country with a lot of variety. While Faithful Wife grew up in small towns that were clearly racist, Red Sonja did not.

I've lived in many places around the USA. Some where racism was very much part of the culture (Atlanta, NYC, NJ) and other where it just did not seem to be a big deal. But when there was racism, it was not from just one race.

When the Irish came to the USA, they were coming from a country where they were treated horribly with genocide, starvation, forced labor/slavery, etc. And then came to the USA and were treated horribly.

When the big Italian immigration happened, it was a lot of people running from famine and wars. They too were treated horribly. My mother and her family had no 'white privilege'. When we lived in Atlanta, by law, my parents were not considered legally married because Italians were considered non-white. Even my generation experience a lot of this discrimination. Shoot a few years ago at work, one of my co-workers starting ranting on about how Italians are sub-humans and to my surprise, others joined in. (I should have gone to HR but was concerned about backlash.)

White privilege is the topic. Not minority oppression. Not bigotry. Not racism, well not specifically racism. Racism is a part of white privilege only in that racism is part of what created white privilege.

While everything you said above is true it doesn't refute the fact that white people have grown up with privileges black people have not.

Those in the LGBTQ community have also been oppressed but the white LGBTQ have still enjoyed white privilege.

When the Germans immigrated they were despised ....until word got around their beer was outstanding...hee hee.

When the Irish came they were despised.

When the Italians came they were despised.

None of those minority groups were subject to lynchings, to being owned property, or to be subject to laws designed to deny them education or jobs or housing. Consider slavery ended after the civil war ended, 1865. But black people were routinely denied rights and were subject to extreme segregation for another 100 years.


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post #101 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 08:40 AM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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Dismissive insult?! Try sarcastic humor.

The point of my post is that your experience does not define the experience of all (or even the majority) of the members of your race. The same can be said of any race.

This is why there is no collective “white privilege” or “white guilt” or whatever you want to call it. All human-beings need live and deal in the present. No one can remedy the past, the best we can do is to remember the mistakes so that they are not repeated.
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I am speaking in the context of the US:

There are individuals who have racist attitudes, yes. There is nothing anyone can do about that, you can enforce laws but you cannot police thoughts or words.

I do not agree with what some on this thread have called white privilege. Everything I have read so far is interpretation and/or opinion, that does not make truth or facts. If you have other current examples, please point them out.

No, the same cannot be said of any race.

Again, we are discussing white privilege. Please refer back to my first post in this thread in which I listed numerous examples of white privilege. Does any other minority group in this country (other than hijab wearing Muslims) claim they did not enjoy the white privileges on my list? And even given the prejudice against Muslims as a group they still cannot claim they haven't enjoyed the privileges on my list, except for being stopped by cops arbitrarily.

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post #102 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 08:58 AM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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What right is denied to black students by colleges/universities these days?

What privilege is denied to black students by colleges/universities these days?

None. There are none being denied to either white people or black people today.





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It's very difficult when the only "point" here seems to be, I'm right you're wrong, that is why I sing this song . . . .

Please quote me where I said it was okay to kill mormons? "Ridding the community" was what I said, as you quoted. But before that I also noted the executive order stated extermination or drive them out. My interpretation of the excustive order, and I admit I didn't read the entire Wiki article, was that the threat of death would be suffience to rid the community of Mormans.


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For Example the very group that you did in fact suggest needed "to behave in acceptable ways", believed in freeing the black slaves before the civil war, and the executive action mentioned was in large part in order to remove them from the voting pool. They were denied the right of property and in many cases life in order to keep Black people in slavery. So yes "Some White People". Now I have less evidence of Some Black people, but I seem to recall something called the Underground Railroad that obviously led to Someplace where Blacks were so accepted that there is a "freeman" in my wife's very Welch based New England ancestry. If you are going to claim All you can't accept this kind of Cherry picking, other wise I wouldn't be wrong.
And yes they had several strokes against them including the denouncement of slavery which was a privilege a lot of white people didn't not want to give up.

The existence of white people who were abolitionists and risked their lives for the cause does not negate white privilege.

"Some women are blessed with multi-orgasmic ability for a reason and I'm damn sure not going to waste a blessing" ~FrenchFry

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post #103 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 08:58 AM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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White privilege is the topic. Not minority oppression. Not bigotry. Not racism, well not specifically racism. Racism is a part of white privilege only in that racism is part of what created white privilege. White privilege and racism go hand in hand. It is apparent in your last sentence here. It also suggests that all whites are racists because of white privilege.

While everything you said above is true it doesn't refute the fact that white people have grown up with privileges black people have not. And all races grow up with some form of privilege. Some are betters than others.

Those in the LGBTQ community have also been oppressed but the white LGBTQ have still enjoyed white privilege. But suffered from other forms oppression. We will just over look that.

When the Germans immigrated they were despised ....until word got around their beer was outstanding...hee hee.

When the Irish came they were despised.

When the Italians came they were despised.

None of those minority groups were subject to lynchings, to being owned property, or to be subject to laws designed to deny them education or jobs or housing. Consider slavery ended after the civil war ended, 1865. But black people were routinely denied rights and were subject to extreme segregation for another 100 years. Slavery of all colors and religions has occurred throughout history. Further, the Germans held mass lynchings, firing squads and bulldozed the dead into mass graves. The Germans did not care much for the Irish either.

“You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.”
― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road
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post #104 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 09:04 AM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

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That is an interesting point. Even among blacks, it's well documented that the local black college football hero gets treated much better than his non athlete brothers. Especially if he gets in trouble.

And attractive people are treated differently.....it's even been shown that tall men are better compensated at work than short men.

So in that sense discrimination is everywhere.

I don't think it should be accepted and nobody deserves it, but to make an argument that it's strictly a white thing is simplistic. I do think minorities of color do still face some deeply rooted challenges, but social change takes generations. And unless you've taken advantage of the opportunities you do have it's disingenuous to cry racism over your life not being what you want.

Approaching this from the perspective of privilege is problematic, IMO, because often the ones who supposedly have this privilege don't feel like they do. They face many of the same challenges as everyone else, so they wonder where is this privilege? Because they don't realize how much worse it could be.

So let's focus on injustice where it exists.

I'd bet one of the most discriminated against groups is people these days is fat people.....ironic really because most of the US is fat to some degree.

Fat people, while socially discriminated against, have never been owned, never been subject to being pulled over for driving while fat in a skinny neighborhood, do not have to keep their anger in check, and they benefit of growing up seeing other fat people who have achieved success. Fat people also have the option of losing weigh.

Again, this isn't about racism, although racism is a part of it. This is about white privilege. Please go back to my first post in this thread to see examples of white privilege.

But I completely agree that injustice, wherever it's found needs to be addressed.

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post #105 of 453 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 09:09 AM
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Re: White Pins For White Privilege

The entire thought process behind privilege I view as particularly nefarious.

Why?

If one believes it to be widespread as suggested, I can do nothing to impact it except to turn down opportunity.

It is the perfect way to pin people with guilt.

"I cannot be successful without hurting someone."

What a mind ****.

Additionally, when one uses "white" before privilege, it portrays the image of only white people having such privilege. All people have privilege of some form if they are willing to look for it.

I grew up skinny, nerdy, short, and constantly bullied. Should I promote the thought process of athletic privilege as somehow negative? Or attractiveness privilege? Or height privilege? How about wittiness privilege because I could not come up with pithy comebacks to the verbal harassment?

Nope.

The more I think about it, the more it feels like envy under another name.

It is yet one more method to place oneself on the victim chair, which is becoming increasingly popular in our culture.

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"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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