Otherwise you'd be speaking German - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 07:30 PM Thread Starter
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Otherwise you'd be speaking German

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Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
Thank God we dont have guns here.
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Originally Posted by 225985 View Post
You don't need them there because we had guns over here.

Otherwise you'd be speaking German, assuming your parents weren't slaughtered before you were born.
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Having guns in your neck of the woods, did not stop the Germans at all. Are you trying to claim credit for the Soviet defeat of Germany?

At the end of the day it is a moot point, since (long before the United States entered the war) Germany could not achieve control of the air over Britain, and consequently would have been unable to effectively protect any invasion fleet in the face of the Royal Navy.
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Talk about rewriting history. Ugh. Facts will be wasted on you.
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Originally Posted by naiveonedave View Post
Lend/Lease probably saved both Russia and Britain. The war is totally different if Hitler doesn't attack Russia in the summer of 1941. Had they kept the truce until they defeated Britain, things would be very different today. Russia needed the 2nd front to pull Germany in two directions as well....
Germany's lack of naval power and inadequate amphibious landing capabilities, combined with their inability to wrest control of British airspace in 1940 (before Lend Lease). Saw to it that Germany could not conduct a successful invasion of Britain (as confirmed by statements from Göring, von Rundstedt, Dönitz, Raeder & others), which at that time had the most powerful Navy on the planet and the most advanced air defence system in the world. So in other words the United States didn't save Britain from subjugation by Germany.

Despite having intent Germany as a continental power that possessed a tactical air force rather than a strategic one, lacked the capability to conquer Britain (Lend Lease or not), therefore @225985's inference that the United States by virtue of being armed had saved Britain from subjugation is nonsense.

Although Lend Lease especially with regard to rail stock, locomotives, motor transport fuel, food, aluminium, and other raw materials did make a not insubstantial contribution to the war effort of the Soviet Union.

It's impact was negligible until Operation Bagration which smashed Army Group Centre during 1944, all of which occurred after the Germans had already been checked and reversed by the Soviets, following their defeat at Stalingrad and failure at Kursk during 1943. Likewise at no point from the commencement of Operation Barbarossa in 1941 through to the storming of the Reichstag in 1945, did the Germans not employ the lions share of their combat strength on the Eastern Front against the Soviet behemoth.

Lend Lease didn't actually save Britain and Russia from conquest and occupation by Germany. What it did do however was to make a very significant contribution to British and Soviet offensive combat power, with it's greatest effect being rendered after Germany was forced on to the strategic defensive.

That said Lend-Lease wasn't a one way street either, since Reverse Lend-Lease saw the United States receive considerable supplies from Britain and the Commonwealth, plus (albeit in much smaller quantity) the Soviet Union as well.

"This statement of the expenditures made by the British Commonwealth of Nations for reverse lend-lease aid furnished to the United States, and of the expansion of this program so as to include exports of materials and foodstuffs for the account of United States agencies from the United Kingdom and the British colonies, emphasizes the contribution which the British Commonwealth has made "to the defense of the United States" while taking its place on the battle fronts.

It is an indication of the extent to which the British have been able to pool their resources with ours so that the needed weapon may be in the hands of that soldier—whatever may be his nationality- who can at the proper moment use it most effectively to defeat our common enemies."


Franklin D. Roosevelt

At the end of the day the Soviet Union provided the critical contribution to the defeat of Germany, while the United States made a significant contribution to the same. Just as the United States provided the critical contribution to the defeat of Japan, while the Soviet Union made a fairly insignificant contribution to the same.

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 07:49 PM
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Re: Otherwise you'd be speaking German

The atrocities committed by Germany in my country in WW2 were slightly less than our favorite Middle East bad guys are doing today. There's a couple monuments in my village commemorating those, and not few of the people butchered (age 14 to 65) share my family name.

Post WW2 we had more entertainment by our Russkiy buddies, the while nine yards.

What country? Doesn't matter. WW2 was not a good thing for anyone in Europe, and while Germany was rebuilt thanks to the Marshall Plan, the rest got peanuts.

So, to be honest, personally I don't see the reason to freak out by today's events. After you find yourself at the receiving end of a Stuka dive bomber or a Panzer
tank for a few years it changes your attitude as to what constitutes a threat.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 09:58 AM
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Re: Otherwise you'd be speaking German

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So, to be honest, personally I don't see the reason to freak out by today's events. After you find yourself at the receiving end of a Stuka dive bomber or a Panzer
tank for a few years it changes your attitude as to what constitutes a threat.
I have to give you a BIG thumbs up for this.

Although my 18 year old daughter thinks her life is over because she did not get a puppy (fourth dog) for her birthday. She does not know what a Panzer is. Hell, she probably thinks WWII is just an old movie.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 10:30 AM
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Re: Otherwise you'd be speaking German

I do speak German, had my parents lived a few blocks to the east my second language would have been Russian. I do get it, but it's still irritating that Eisenhower stopped short.



Sigh, my wife gives me the speaking treatment.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 10:39 AM
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Re: Otherwise you'd be speaking German

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I have to give you a BIG thumbs up for this.

Although my 18 year old daughter thinks her life is over because she did not get a puppy (fourth dog) for her birthday. She does not know what a Panzer is. Hell, she probably thinks WWII is just an old movie.
I heard a few teenagers talking about a movie a few months ago.One asked the other what was it about.
World war eleven was the answer.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 10:41 AM
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Re: Otherwise you'd be speaking German

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I heard a few teenagers talking about a movie a few months ago.One asked the other what was it about.
World war eleven was the answer.

"Life always offers you a second chance. It's called tomorrow."
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 10:43 AM
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Re: Otherwise you'd be speaking German

The only reason that America was able to help win WWII is that we outproduced Germany. We mobilized our factories and mills to start churning out tanks and warplanes by the thousands. It was the greatest and most enormous industrial mobilization in American history.

Our tanks weren't better than German tanks...we just put five times as many on the ground. We had the advantage of geography...no one was bombing our factories. Russia did the same thing. They churned out T-34 tanks by the thousands and overran Berlin with them.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 10:45 AM
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Re: Otherwise you'd be speaking German

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I heard a few teenagers talking about a movie a few months ago.One asked the other what was it about.
World war eleven was the answer.
I do not doubt this for a second!

BTW if you want to see a really good documentary on WWII it's on Smithsonian. It was done in 1974 with interviews from top Nazi, British and U.S. Generals, etc. Lot's of stuff on there that you would NEVER see if done today. Very informative.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 12:27 PM
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Re: Otherwise you'd be speaking German

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Our tanks weren't better than German tanks...we just put five times as many on the ground.
That is the only reason we won the tank battle, sheer volume.

The M4 Sherman was woefully outmatched by the German Panzer and God forbid if they encountered the Panzer IV.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 01:25 PM
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Re: Otherwise you'd be speaking German

My father's unit had some Sherman's for training all the way to the 1960's. Pretty pitiful excuse for a tank for 1940, let alone later.

Even today the Germans produce some pretty decent military hardware. But their strategy in WW2 was God awful. They should have realized that they would not win it all unless they landed in England, which was not likely. They spread too thin with Russia, North Africa and such.

They could easily have taken over much of Eastern and Southern Europe and held it, but somehow they over extended, chose some silly allies (Italy? Lolz) and went for destruction vs strategic targets (London).

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 01:41 PM
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Re: Otherwise you'd be speaking German

Sheer numbers of Sherman tanks was key. Lack of fuel for the Germans. Air superiority with introduction of the Mustang. Long range cover for the B17. It was a multitude of things that contributed to the final defeat of Germany.

“You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.”
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 02:50 PM
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Re: Otherwise you'd be speaking German

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That is the only reason we won the tank battle, sheer volume.

The M4 Sherman was woefully outmatched by the German Panzer and God forbid if they encountered the Panzer IV.
Our tank squadrons used what Gen. Bradley called the wolf pack strategy. Three or more Allied tanks against one Panther. It wasn't perfect, but it whittled the panzer units down and cut off their supply lines.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 02:51 PM
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Re: Otherwise you'd be speaking German

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Sheer numbers of Sherman tanks was key. Lack of fuel for the Germans. Air superiority with introduction of the Mustang. Long range cover for the B17. It was a multitude of things that contributed to the final defeat of Germany.
Careful mentioning the P-51 Mustang. I get an erection.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 03:50 PM
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Re: Otherwise you'd be speaking German

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Careful mentioning the P-51 Mustang. I get an erection.
Next time you're at the Udvar-Hazy Smithsonian air and space museum annex (at the airport) check out an Arado WW2 German jet bomber and a couple other remarkable finds from the Axis. It will really make you think twice about innovation vs sheer numbers.

https://airandspace.si.edu/collectio...litz-lightning

If you're ever in DC check the annex out. It makes the main Smithsonian air and space museum pale by comparison...
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 04:54 PM
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Re: Otherwise you'd be speaking German

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Careful mentioning the P-51 Mustang. I get an erection.
Remind me, do hold a PPL?



Sigh, my wife gives me the speaking treatment.
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