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post #46 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 04:49 PM
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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Some folks live a happier life with their head in the sand. It's why there is a problem.


Perhaps putting my head in sand would allow me to see the problem in the proper scale.


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post #47 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 05:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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Here is the Harvard study analyzing the data from the survey that seemed to indciate massive voter fraud:

The Perils of Cherry Picking Low Frequency Events in Large Sample Surveys | CCES

It boils down to the problem that people make mistakes on surveys.


Since there is automatic voter registration in Oregon and other places, I want to see evidence of illegal voting, not registration to be convinced.
Is it legal to register if you are not a citizen? In what special circumstance(s)?

Voting does not matter. What matters is registration. That's what this thread is about. It isn't about illegal voting. It's about illegal registration.

There are laws against illegal registration. If Oregon has violated those laws, the taxpayers of Oregon are responsible.

Ignorance of the law is not a defense.

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post #48 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 05:47 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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Perhaps putting my head in sand would allow me to see the problem in the proper scale.


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You'd have to be able to understand that it is likely that of the millions of non-citizens registered to vote across the country, it is likely that at least 25% of them voted. It's actually likely that many more than that voted.

If you are a legally registered voter, you would care. If not, then I understand your issues.

Like I said, you are giving other countries, the right to tell you how to live in your own home. How does it feel when a guest at your home tells you what you are doing wrong with your decorating, cooking, cleaning or lawn care?

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post #49 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 06:12 PM
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Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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You'd have to be able to understand that it is likely that of the millions of non-citizens registered to vote across the country, it is likely that at least 25% of them voted. It's actually likely that many more than that voted.



If you are a legally registered voter, you would care. If not, then I understand your issues.



Like I said, you are giving other countries, the right to tell you how to live in your own home. How does it feel when a guest at your home tells you what you are doing wrong with your decorating, cooking, cleaning or lawn care?


You are WRONG.

I've voted in every primary and general election since Reagan / Carter / Anderson in 1980. And yet... I DON'T care about this trivial matter.

Capitalism is about the allocation of scarce resources. This doesn't rise to the level required to cause me to want to spend our national treasure.


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post #50 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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You are WRONG.

I've voted in every primary and general election since Reagan / Carter / Anderson in 1980. And yet... I DON'T care about this trivial matter.

Capitalism is about the allocation of scarce resources. This doesn't rise to the level required to cause me to want to spend our national treasure.


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What does your voting history have to do with anything?

National treasure? You and your fellow Oregonians are responsible for your own state, since registration is offered by each state. I would be responsible along with my fellow Pennsylvanians for the cost of any corrections in my state.

Liberals love to place their responsibility on others. Don't they?

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post #51 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 06:35 PM
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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What does your voting history have to do with anything?



National treasure? You and your fellow Oregonians are responsible for your own state, since registration is offered by each state. I would be responsible along with my fellow Pennsylvanians for the cost of any corrections in my state.



Liberals love to place their responsibility on others. Don't they?


Are you crazy? Why do you think I'm from Oregon? What are you even talking about?


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post #52 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 06:38 PM
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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it's not like 80 year olds commit voting fraud.
I'm sure they do. They forget that they voted and vote again. And again.
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post #53 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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Are you crazy? Why do you think I'm from Oregon? What are you even talking about?


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I don't know. Because you couldn't afford to live in Cali., so you bought a place in Oregon knowing they would allow you to smoke pot there and you could drive into Cali for anything you can't get in Oregon?

Just a guess. Don't get your panties in a bunch.

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post #54 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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I'm sure they do. They forget that they voted and vote again. And again.
Actually, their liberal granddaughter who takes care of them sends in an absentee ballot claiming the old guy can't get in to vote, but still wants the opportunity to help elect someone.

The election bureau doesn't know. They just make sure his signature is on it, or that of his Power of Attorney.

In keeping with the thread theme, if they are 80, they are probably citizens and can legally register.

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post #55 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 11:54 PM
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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I don't know. Because you couldn't afford to live in Cali., so you bought a place in Oregon knowing they would allow you to smoke pot there and you could drive into Cali for anything you can't get in Oregon?



Just a guess. Don't get your panties in a bunch.


Did you just string together words or are you a bot? Can't tell which. But don't let your bits byte you in the ass!


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post #56 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 10:01 AM
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

I disagree on almost all those points.

Why do you think 25% voted, based on what evidence? For that matter why do you think people are registering illegally and voting anyway??? Its hard enough to get legal voters to actually vote, what would motivate individuals to risk breaking the law and voting? Unless there is some organized movement, the effect of their individual vote is tiny? Why would they take the risk and make the effort?

Imagine John Smith is here illegally. Why would he take a chance of being noticed and deported in order to vote? It makes no sense. Much more likely he ended up getting automatically registered.

I've voted for many years and I'm not concerned. I've seen not evidence that this is a big problem. Why spend my tax dollars fixing it?

States mange their own elections and none are claiming a problem with massive illegal voting.


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Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
You'd have to be able to understand that it is likely that of the millions of non-citizens registered to vote across the country, it is likely that at least 25% of them voted. It's actually likely that many more than that voted.

If you are a legally registered voter, you would care. If not, then I understand your issues.

Like I said, you are giving other countries, the right to tell you how to live in your own home. How does it feel when a guest at your home tells you what you are doing wrong with your decorating, cooking, cleaning or lawn care?
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post #57 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 10:07 AM
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

Did you read the article? In summary:

The survey asked a bunch of questions including questions on whether people were citizens and whether they voted

The Harvard study shows that, not surprisingly, people make mistakes on surveys - check the wrong boxes, or just enter random stuff to screw with the survey people.

So, some people who were not citizens accidentally checked the "i voted" box. Some people who voted accidentally checked the "I'm not a citizen" box. This was just a survey, not some legal document.

Those mistakes make it look like there were a lot of illegal votes that didn't actually exist.

If you had a survey asking people what type of car they owned and one of the options was Lamborghini, don't you think your would get far more people checking the box than there were actually Lamborghini owners? Would you then want to start a big investigation of illegal importation of Lamborghinis?


The original study was probably done in good faith but the methodology was flawed. Social science is hard - its a matter for trained scientists.




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Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
Is it legal to register if you are not a citizen? In what special circumstance(s)?

Voting does not matter. What matters is registration. That's what this thread is about. It isn't about illegal voting. It's about illegal registration.

There are laws against illegal registration. If Oregon has violated those laws, the taxpayers of Oregon are responsible.

Ignorance of the law is not a defense.
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post #58 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 11:58 AM
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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Actually, their liberal granddaughter who takes care of them sends in an absentee ballot claiming the old guy can't get in to vote, but still wants the opportunity to help elect someone.

The election bureau doesn't know. They just make sure his signature is on it, or that of his Power of Attorney.

In keeping with the thread theme, if they are 80, they are probably citizens and can legally register.
Many have two legal residences, one in a northern state and one in a southern state. They have enough proof of residency to register in both states, and they then vote in both states. A lot of this was discovered with Florida voters in the 2012 election if my memory is correct.
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post #59 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 12:18 PM
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

I don't know if it has been mentioned, but permanent residents CAN register to vote, and can legally vote, in most local elections and some state elections. Did the survey make this distinction, or not?

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post #60 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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I disagree on almost all those points.

Why do you think 25% voted, based on what evidence? For that matter why do you think people are registering illegally and voting anyway??? Its hard enough to get legal voters to actually vote, what would motivate individuals to risk breaking the law and voting? Unless there is some organized movement, the effect of their individual vote is tiny? Why would they take the risk and make the effort?

Imagine John Smith is here illegally. Why would he take a chance of being noticed and deported in order to vote? It makes no sense. Much more likely he ended up getting automatically registered.

I've voted for many years and I'm not concerned. I've seen not evidence that this is a big problem. Why spend my tax dollars fixing it?

States mange their own elections and none are claiming a problem with massive illegal voting.
So, there is a law that says you have to prove that you are a citizen before you can register to vote.


There is an automatic registration to vote through driver's license procurement.


Ignorance of the law is not a defense.


If you are not a citizen, you would want to say that you would prefer not to be registered to vote.


How would they know you aren't a citizen? Because you said you don't want to be registered? Makes no sense. it isn't illegal to refuse to vote.


All the rest of your questions don't need answered. This is the only situation there is, that needs addressed.

Who is responsible? The state which registered those foreigners or the foreigner?

It's the foreigner's fault, since ignorance of the law is not a defense. i.e.: I didn't know it was illegal to kill that man. Nope, doesn't work, you have to stand trial and be punished, if convicted.

Get it now?

If, for example, Oregon registered foreigners to vote illegally, it will have to be fixed. They will have to find them through all those licenses. They will have to change the system.

Is it the federal government's money that should be spent to fix Oregon's mistakes?

Nope, it's up to Oregon to fix them and use Oregon taxpayer dollars.

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