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post #61 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 05:23 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
Did you read the article? In summary:

The survey asked a bunch of questions including questions on whether people were citizens and whether they voted

The Harvard study shows that, not surprisingly, people make mistakes on surveys - check the wrong boxes, or just enter random stuff to screw with the survey people.

So, some people who were not citizens accidentally checked the "i voted" box. Some people who voted accidentally checked the "I'm not a citizen" box. This was just a survey, not some legal document.

Those mistakes make it look like there were a lot of illegal votes that didn't actually exist.

If you had a survey asking people what type of car they owned and one of the options was Lamborghini, don't you think your would get far more people checking the box than there were actually Lamborghini owners? Would you then want to start a big investigation of illegal importation of Lamborghinis?


The original study was probably done in good faith but the methodology was flawed. Social science is hard - its a matter for trained scientists.


I did read that. Any survey can be skewed one way or another, by either illiterate foreigners or by illiterate citizens. It can be skewed by a trick question.

We had a referendum vote here in PA. It was a question. I'm paraphrasing because I can't remember the exact words, but I did not vote for it.

It asked something like, "Do you believe 70 year old judges are too old"?

In Pa, judges are or were forced to retire at age 65. I think. Most everyone in the state has no idea when they are forced to retire. I asked all kinds of "informed" voters, who knew about the presidential election. None of them knew about this age requirement. A judge must be under 66 years of age.

Guess what? They thought it was just a question that would later come out as a vote to raise or lower the age of retirement for judges. Is that what it was? No, it was THE vote to raise the age of retirement to 70 years old.

So, anything can be skewed or lied about. This, to me was a lie.

In fact, anyone who says there are no foreign voters, people do not vote twice, dead folks aren't voting, someone isn't voting for their senile grandpa, or some other illegal voting, is sadly misinformed and living in a world of no accountability or laws, in their mind.


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post #62 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 09:01 PM
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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Originally Posted by Married but Happy View Post
I don't know if it has been mentioned, but permanent residents CAN register to vote, and can legally vote, in most local elections and some state elections. Did the survey make this distinction, or not?
Not in a whole lot of states actually...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Righ..._United_States
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post #63 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 09:39 PM
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

I'm sure there are illegal votes, but before I get excited about it I want to know if it is enough to matter. There are better places to spend my tax $ than chasing what most studies, and all election boards say is a phantom.



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snip
In fact, anyone who says there are no foreign voters, people do not vote twice, dead folks aren't voting, someone isn't voting for their senile grandpa, or some other illegal voting, is sadly misinformed and living in a world of no accountability or laws, in their mind.
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post #64 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 10:12 PM
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

Trump is an ignorant regressive. There is little to no voter fraud in this country. I am a citizen born and raised, fourth generation. I have to have a U.S. birth certificate, social security number, 2 utility payments and local taxes paid. So how are these illegals getting voter registrations? What a crock of ****. Trump lost the popular vote... deal with it. He won the electoral college, by the skin of his teeth, and with a ton of lies, we all have to deal with that.
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post #65 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 10:52 PM
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

Here, you are asked when you get a drivers license if you'd like to register to vote. Period.

It must be hard to investigate anyway. Because if non-citizens register to vote, via accident or ignorance or on purpose... they are listed as registered voters, not as illegal voters. There is no red flag after they are registered.

And don't you think that MANY of them, once given the registration, would be glad to be able to vote for the party that benefits them the most? Why wouldn't they? Illegal immigration issues are pretty serious right now. From what I can see in various news sources, Hispanic votes were specifically being solicited.... and I'd think that illegal immigrants who "somehow" were registered to vote, would vote.
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post #66 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 07:57 AM
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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Originally Posted by Palodyne View Post
Trump is an ignorant regressive. There is little to no voter fraud in this country. I am a citizen born and raised, fourth generation. I have to have a U.S. birth certificate, social security number, 2 utility payments and local taxes paid. So how are these illegals getting voter registrations? What a crock of ****. Trump lost the popular vote... deal with it. He won the electoral college, by the skin of his teeth, and with a ton of lies, we all have to deal with that.
you obviously don't know how easy it is to register to vote in some states. a DL is all you need in many. When you get your 1st DL, they ask you directly if you want to register to vote and most of the time there is no information to tell you who is eligible and who isn't.

You need to let your bitterness for the Trump go, you will have him as pres for 4 or 8 more years.
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post #67 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 12:02 PM
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

I don't see why they would vote. They are taking a risk of felony charges in return of a microscopic chance of changing the election outcome. The only reason to vote is out of a sense of civic duty, its never worth it for the personal benefit. So for someone illegal to vote they would need to be civic minded enough to take the risk, but at the same time not civic minded enough to care about how democracy works. It seems a strange combination to me.

Most places with voter fraud it is organized for large groups of people. I haven't seen any claims of that here.

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Here, you are asked when you get a drivers license if you'd like to register to vote. Period.

It must be hard to investigate anyway. Because if non-citizens register to vote, via accident or ignorance or on purpose... they are listed as registered voters, not as illegal voters. There is no red flag after they are registered.

And don't you think that MANY of them, once given the registration, would be glad to be able to vote for the party that benefits them the most? Why wouldn't they? Illegal immigration issues are pretty serious right now. From what I can see in various news sources, Hispanic votes were specifically being solicited.... and I'd think that illegal immigrants who "somehow" were registered to vote, would vote.
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post #68 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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I'm sure there are illegal votes, but before I get excited about it I want to know if it is enough to matter. There are better places to spend my tax $ than chasing what most studies, and all election boards say is a phantom.
Basically, you have to look for illegal registrations. Then, check on those folks and see if they voted in each election. It's a big task, but that's what you are asking for someone to do.

If illegal registration is stopped, illegal voting takes a dive. Then, we can say it is much less prevalent than it is today.

Didn't you pay attention to this last presidential election? Hillary won the popular vote by 2 or 3 million? Why was that? What is the estimated foreign population of those states where she won those votes? It would be simple to say that those states are widely populated with foreigners who were registered automatically. Did they vote? Some probably did, because they think they are citizens with a right to vote. They aren't, even if the state where they reside offers automatic registration.

First of all, the state must ask for some identification before giving them voter registration. Second, it is the foreigners duty to notify the state, they do not wish to be registered to vote.

I simply don't understand why anyone would think the elections today are valid. Who knows if they are? You can't even tell me who voted! Why would I believe that anyone has been elected. Why would I believe Hillary actually got those votes?

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post #69 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 03:03 PM
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

Many illegals don't speak English well. Most operate outside of the normal channels of society, choosing to stay within a community of their peers. Many are poorly educated, and have little to no understanding of how the USA works when it comes to documents, voting, etc. It would be simple to organize illegals into registering to vote and then to encourage them to vote. They already operate illegally in many ways, such as coming here illegally, remaining here illegally, using various dodges to be employed here. Stories of unlicensed uninsured illegals getting in auto accidents are a dime a dozen. Everybody knows someone who's been hit this way.

It doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to believe many illegals would happily vote if they could. They would receive a voter registration card in the mail thanks to motor-voter laws. It would be easy to get a lot of them riled up to vote for/against those ugly racists like Trump who said he wanted to deport all Mexicans because they are all rapists (yes, many American adults even believe Trump said those things).
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post #70 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 03:11 PM
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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I don't see why they would vote. They are taking a risk of felony charges in return of a microscopic chance of changing the election outcome. The only reason to vote is out of a sense of civic duty, its never worth it for the personal benefit. So for someone illegal to vote they would need to be civic minded enough to take the risk, but at the same time not civic minded enough to care about how democracy works. It seems a strange combination to me.

Most places with voter fraud it is organized for large groups of people. I haven't seen any claims of that here.
Rant below:
they are already here illegally, why would voting being a crime stop them? Also, when is the last time you heard of anybody getting arrested for it? To me there is no risk or virtually no risk. Heck, some probably think they are doing it legally..... With the HUGE attempts to drive up voter turn out by the Dems, I could easily see why illegals would do it. They are voting for their own benefits. Oh, and the whole sanctuary city thing.... To be honest, with what you wrote, why would anyone vote?

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post #71 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 03:16 PM
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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What can be done about this?

How is it that one state does not have the ability to know that a person may have residences in two states?

How much more do we have to pay in taxes to have a safe election process?

Why would anyone allow this to happen?

Do you want this to stop? Why or why not?

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A 1996 federal law, and other statues,
what kind of source did you get this article from?
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post #72 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 03:18 PM
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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Trump is an ignorant regressive. There is little to no voter fraud in this country. I am a citizen born and raised, fourth generation. I have to have a U.S. birth certificate, social security number, 2 utility payments and local taxes paid. So how are these illegals getting voter registrations? What a crock of ****. Trump lost the popular vote... deal with it. He won the electoral college, by the skin of his teeth, and with a ton of lies, we all have to deal with that.
He obviously lost the popular vote by a significant margin; the electoral vote, though, wasn't so close.

Either way, if there are vulnerabilities in our electoral process (and there clearly are), they need to be dealt with. Otherwise it might be your candidate losing the popular vote yet winning the electoral vote next time around.

And if you're OK w/ that, you can't really cry foul.

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post #73 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 03:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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Rant below:
they are already here illegally, why would voting being a crime stop them? Also, when is the last time you heard of anybody getting arrested for it? To me there is no risk or virtually no risk. Heck, some probably think they are doing it legally..... With the HUGE attempts to drive up voter turn out by the Dems, I could easily see why illegals would do it. They are voting for their own benefits. Oh, and the whole sanctuary city thing.... To be honest, with what you wrote, why would anyone vote?
I agree with you, but don't you also realize once they are registered, all they have to do is go to the polling place and have them find their name in the book and then sign? Once that is done and the signature matches, they can place a vote.

So, even though it is illegal, most votes would not even make a tiny little blip on the radar screen. As far as not speaking English, that's no big deal. Many foreigners who just came here and became citizens from Europe weren't able to speak English. It wasn't a big deal and still isn't. For them it could be disastrous, if they aren't careful.

Don't you guys understand what I've been trying to say? The issue needs stopped at registration, or it will never be stopped. Because, technically, if a person is registered, they are considered legal voters.

That's why uhtred keeps talking in terms of illegal votes, not illegal registrants. Get it? Understand?

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post #74 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 03:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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He obviously lost the popular vote by a significant margin; the electoral vote, though, wasn't so close.

Either way, if there are vulnerabilities in our electoral process (and there clearly are), they need to be dealt with. Otherwise it might be your candidate losing the popular vote yet winning the electoral vote next time around.

And if you're OK w/ that, you can't really cry foul.
Exactly!

This isn't a partisan thing. It's a citizen thing. We are giving our hard won rights away to anyone from anywhere in the world!

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post #75 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 03:34 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Nearly 2 million non-citizen Hispanics illegally registered to vote

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what kind of source did you get this article from?
The Washington Times Newspaper.

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